Stand up and take responsibility!!!

[Bubba136]

At the moment, the current state of the world's economy has a lot of people concerned. There are a large number of retired people in this country (USA) that have watched their investments shrink to a point where they are beginning to think they'll not have enough income from them to live on.

The blame game is in full swing. The Democrat Party faithfuls have been quick to place the entire blame on President Bush and Republicans. The truth be known, however, the current "crash" can be traced back to the 1970's and the Carter Administration and "The Fair Housing Act.," and compounded by actions taken by President Clinton and Democrat members of the congress with the Community Reinvestment Act. Especially Rep. Barny Frank and Con. Senator Dodd.

Two good sources for the facts surrounding the current economic situation are: (Google: Boston.com - Jeff Jacoby - article entitled: "Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco." And the other one is a utube video at: utube video .

This is a rather lengthy video. Take a few minutes and watch it all the way to the end. It is factual in that every statement and allegation can be completely backed up by official US Government records.

I don't know about you guys, but I am so angry at all of the members of our current government, I would, if I could, throw all of the bums out. Beginning with everyone responsible for this situation and severely punishing the guys on wall street and in the mortgage industry for their part in causing this world wide economic crash.

As one of our commentators says: "Let your heart not be troubled, the truth will come out!"

[hhboots]

Yes, the economic disaster here is very troubling. I have most of my adult life considered myself a moderate, I usually vote for what and who makes sense (often very challenging) and have voted for both sides. As of late, I have been leaning a lot more to the left, mainly because the current administration has been a complete disaster for this country. Yes, we cannot blame all of this on GW, but one thing that I did see recently that was alarming, was the national debt clock, it has had its significantly fastest periods of growth, in fact most of its growth has occured during two administrations: Reagan and GW. This is from a party that claims to be against big government and big spending. But alas, I really don't like to get into politics, and I really don't like to play the blame game. I think the two party system in this country is a joke, both parties are too far into the extremes and rarely meet in the middle, and that along with greed and corruption (not blaming one party) I think is the root of 90% of our current issues. So no, I don't blame anyone, even GW (as hard as that is for me to say). Hoping that doesn't start a flame war, I have always tried to stay in the middle, but had to make a bit of a left sounding post there.

[heelma]

The blame game is in full swing. The Democrat Party faithfuls have been quick to place the entire blame on President Bush and Republicans. The truth be known, however, the current "crash" can be traced back to the 1970's and the Carter Administration and "The Fair Housing Act.," and compounded by actions taken by President Clinton and Democrat members of the congress with the Community Reinvestment Act. Especially Rep. Barny Frank and Con. Senator Dodd.

PLEASE: Leave politics out of this forum, at least this section. This is OFF TOPIC!

But to add my opinion to this:

Are you listening too much to talk radio? Didn't I just hear this from Mark Levin a couple of weeks ago? He is a smart guy, and that's why I listen to him, but he does just what he blames others for: his and many other talk radio shows are pure propaganda. I only listen to it because I want to hear all opinions and not only what the other side says about it (other side is what they call "drive by media"). But that doesn't mean that I believe more in talk radio than in CNN.

Assuming this talk radio comment is right - don't forget that it were the greedy bankers who actually brought us into this mess - neither Bush nor Carter nor Clinton. The latter might have opened the doors, so this may happen, but it takes bankers and others in charge of mortgages and money to actually do it.

[wongetje]

Did you not mean: stand up in your high heels and take responsibility?

[Trolldeg]

I think the two party system in this country is a joke, both parties are too far into the extremes..

Really? With one right wing, and one extreme right wing party?

[Bubba136]

PLEASE: Leave politics out of this forum, at least this section. This is OFF TOPIC!

What do you mean this is off topic for this thread? Read the banner head.

[hhboots]

Really? With one right wing, and one extreme right wing party?

Haha, yes from a Swedish point of view, I can fully understand your point. Compared with the dominant political parties in your country, the two parties we have would seem pretty far out in right field. (all good fun, I hate the current state of politics in this country anyway)

[Histiletto]

As citizens of the United States, we take pride in our system of government because of the many checks and balances that we supposively have in place. This means that our system of government is a citizen powered machine. We can't sit back and depend on everything to run they way we expect it to. It runs the way those who are active in it tend to be. Unfortunately, there have been those who are driven by greed and are of questionable integrity, in these overseeing positions. They failed to check and sufficiently disclose the damaging practices many businesses were engaged in while these businesses dealt with the wealth in our world economy. So, if we want to straighten this mess out, we have to get involved in our governmental process, making sure the right people are going to be dependable in doing the business of running our government.

[heelma]

What do you mean this is off topic for this thread? Read the banner head.

Come on - it was you who posted this in "For Everybody" - not in "General Chit-Chat" where the moderators moved it now.

[Bubba136]

Come on - it was you who posted this in "For Everybody" - not in "General Chit-Chat" where the moderators moved it now.

sorry 'bout that!

[Amanda]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Here's a link for another little video that might help explain world economy.

[vector]

Bubba,

Yes, the Democrats have a hand in our current crisis, but don't forget that Dubya (Pres George Bush) and McCain promoted policies of relaxed regulation that definitely fueled this crisis.

Also, wasn't McCain one of the Keating five. Most of whom were indicted and found guilty of crimes related to the collapse of many banks. While he wasn't charged, he was formally scolded by congress for exercising "bad judgement". And now he's running for president. Mr. Bad Judgement???

See the link below for more info...

http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo

[Bubba136]

Bubba,

Yes, the Democrats have a hand in our current crisis, but don't forget that Dubya (Pres George Bush) and McCain promoted policies of relaxed regulation that definitely fueled this crisis.

Also, wasn't McCain one of the Keating five. Most of whom were indicted and found guilty of crimes related to the collapse of many banks. While he wasn't charged, he was formally scolded by congress for exercising "bad judgement". And now he's running for president. Mr. Bad Judgement???

See the link below for more info...

http://my.barackobama.com/keatingvideo

..

The last word: most members here believe that when they make a comment to which no one responds, it is an indication that the point made is conceded. While not desiring to contest your arguments in this forum, I wouldn't want our other members to think that your comment was, in fact, the last word and that what you pointed out is in anyway truthful.

Victor, you've swallowed -- hook, line and sinker -- the Obama campaigns talking points on the Keating five. First of all, McCain's association with the Keating five was revived by Obama's people in response to McCain's charge that Obama has an ongoing relationship with a known domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers. And, unable to refute that factual charge, they trotted out the Kitting five charges, again -- which were totally and absolutely unfounded. Even Robert Bennette, Bill Clinton's defense lawyer and an "died in the wool, yellow dog Democrat," announced at the end of his investigation into the incident, that McCain was totally innocent of any violation in that episode.

While Obama's campaign is lightning quick to revive these allegations, they speak not a word informing the general public that they have on their pannel of advisors to Obama, a real live convicted participant in the Keeting five ethics violation issue, former Sen. John Glenn.

As to John McCain's and President Bush's supporting further deregulation of wall street and Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, specifically, your information is also not factual. Just go back and check your facts and you'll find the timeline, bginning in 2000, where John McCain and the Bush Administration tried again and again to institute greater oversight into financial operations, recognizing the harm that failure would cause to our economy and world wide economic systems -- and time and again their investigative and legislative efforts to be stalled or derailed by, amongst others, Sen. Dodd and Rep. Barny Frank.

While I'm secure in my mind that my facts will hold up in any court, I would like to let this subject stop right here. However, I will, if you presist, furnish you with specific dates, times and places that will prove to you -- not that you would ever accept the truth because it doesn't fit your prespective in the purpose of supporting your candidate for president -- that you are wrong.

A very wise man one said:"A person belongs to a political party. Therefore they believe things or rationally bend their logic to be consistant to their beliefs, no matter how illogical they may be or sound."

"Kool aid" drinkers -- as they are known around here.

That being said, however, I don't really want to debate the political campaign here, I just want to register my disgust with all of those responsible for the current economic crisis and the harm it has done, and will ultimately do, to all of us.

[Trolldeg]

... in response to McCain's charge that Obama has an ongoing relationship with a known domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers. And, unable to refute that factual charge...

"Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers.[41] Obama says he has not visited Ayers during the presidential campaign. The senator said in September 2008 that he hadn't "seen him in a year-and-a-half."[42] In February 2008, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."[40] CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.[43] Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting doesn't support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship."[44]"

[radiodave]

..

Victor[sic], you've swallowed -- hook, line and sinker -- the Obama campaigns talking points on the Keating five. First of all, McCain's association with the Keating five was revived by Obama's people in response to McCain's charge that Obama has an ongoing relationship with a known domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers. And, unable to refute that factual charge, they trotted out the Kitting[sic] five charges, again -- which were totally and absolutely unfounded. Even Robert Bennette, Bill Clinton's defense lawyer and an "died in the wool, yellow dog Democrat," announced at the end of his investigation into the incident, that McCain was totally innocent of any violation in that episode.

While Obama's campaign is lightning quick to revive these allegations, they speak not a word informing the general public that they have on their pannel[sic] of advisors to Obama, a real live convicted participant in the Keeting[sic] five ethics violation issue, former Sen. John Glenn.

"In 1991, McCain, along with his four Democratic colleagues, was found guilty by the Senate Ethics Committee of using "poor judgment" for attending the meetings with regulators on Keating's behalf." -- L.A. Times

"The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of Glenn in the scheme was minimal, and the charges against him were dropped.[49] He was only criticized by the Committee for "poor judgment."[52]

The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[50][49] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[7] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."[53] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[7]"

Maybe Obama is stretching McCain's involvement (gasp! candidates blowing things out of proportion? No!!), but no disputing that he was criticized for "poor judgment", which is the point Vector was trying to make.

[Bubba136]

"In 1991, McCain, along with his four Democratic colleagues, was found guilty by the Senate Ethics Committee of using "poor judgment" for attending the meetings with regulators on Keating's behalf." -- L.A. Times

"The Senate Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of Glenn in the scheme was minimal, and the charges against him were dropped.[49] He was only criticized by the Committee for "poor judgment."[52]

The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him.[50][49] McCain was criticized by the Committee for exercising "poor judgment" when he met with the federal regulators on Keating's behalf.[7] The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate."[53] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[7]"

Maybe Obama is stretching McCain's involvement (gasp! candidates blowing things out of proportion? No!!), but no disputing that he was criticized for "poor judgment", which is the point Vector was trying to make.

That might be the case but the context that the Obama campaign is trying to promote, is that McCain is guilty......and has to be held accountable. My point is that if McCain is as guilty as Obama's people want us to believe, then they owe the public a clear explanation as to why they don't view Glenn in the same light. and that is my point.

[shrimper]

At the moment, the current state of the world's economy has a lot of people concerned. There are a large number of retired people in this country (USA) that have watched their investments shrink to a point where they are beginning to think they'll not have enough income from them to live on.

The blame game is in full swing. The Democrat Party faithfuls have been quick to place the entire blame on President Bush and Republicans. The truth be known, however, the current "crash" can be traced back to the 1970's and the Carter Administration and "The Fair Housing Act.," and compounded by actions taken by President Clinton and Democrat members of the congress with the Community Reinvestment Act. Especially Rep. Barny Frank and Con. Senator Dodd.

Two good sources for the facts surrounding the current economic situation are: (Google: Boston.com - Jeff Jacoby - article entitled: "Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco." And the other one is a utube video at: utube video .

This is a rather lengthy video. Take a few minutes and watch it all the way to the end. It is factual in that every statement and allegation can be completely backed up by official US Government records.

I don't know about you guys, but I am so angry at all of the members of our current government, I would, if I could, throw all of the bums out. Beginning with everyone responsible for this situation and severely punishing the guys on wall street and in the mortgage industry for their part in causing this world wide economic crash.

As one of our commentators says: "Let your heart not be troubled, the truth will come out!"

Bubba136, I respect you as a fellow heel man but your references are slanted and do not tell the full truth. There was an 8-part series that appeared in the Charlotte Observer that documented the chicanery of Beazer Homes and eventually led to their prosecution for mortgage fraud. I suggest you read that to get another perspective on the factors leading to this disaster. Their actions led to my home losing almost $50,000 in value because they slammed 100 homes in an area next to my subdivision, sold the homes to unqualified borrowers, falsified the buyers incomes to get the loans and walked away with the guaranteed loans and the subdivision experienced 50% foreclosure rates. When you haven't been directly affected by these types of actions its very easy to blame it all on the little guy who was taken advantage of.

[Bubba136]

Bubba136, I respect you as a fellow heel man but your references are slanted and do not tell the full truth. There was an 8-part series that appeared in the Charlotte Observer that documented the chicanery of Beazer Homes and eventually led to their prosecution for mortgage fraud. I suggest you read that to get another perspective on the factors leading to this disaster. Their actions led to my home losing almost $50,000 in value because they slammed 100 homes in an area next to my subdivision, sold the homes to unqualified borrowers, falsified the buyers incomes to get the loans and walked away with the guaranteed loans and the subdivision experienced 50% foreclosure rates. When you haven't been directly affected by these types of actions its very easy to blame it all on the little guy who was taken advantage of.

I don't quite understand your comment. My comments weren't addressing mortgage fraud. Where do you get the idea that I blame our current economic difficulties on "the little guy?" And, why do you feel that my references are slanted?

There are causes and effects. What happened to you is the aftereffect that might just have been caused by inaction on the part of Congress to authorize increasing oversight. If congress had paid more attention to those that were calling for more oversight of Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae, perhaps this meltdown could have been avoided.

Perhaps it was because of this lack oversight that emboldened the individuals that caused your difficulty to take advantage of the situation -- because they knew they would be off the hook once their mortgages were bought and sold two or three times.

In any case, I understand completely what you're saying. I would guess you are one of the families that now has a mortgage on your house is more than what you you could sell it for, if you could sell it.

I am, more or less in the same situation. My home's value has also come down over the past several months.

On an aside: though the value of my house is down, my taxes haven't been reduced to it's current value.

[vector]

Bubba, Back to my original statement, BOTH parties have an equal hand in this mess. I wish I had the link to an article that would articulate that point more clearly. I received it some time back and deleted it. Your quote: "A very wise man once said:"A person belongs to a political party. Therefore they believe things or rationally bend their logic to be consistant to their beliefs, no matter how illogical they may be or sound." "Kool aid" drinkers -- as they are known around here."" I'll admit that it has some application to me. Doesn't it also apply to you? Oh, BTW, I like Cherry flavor. What's your favorite? (smile)

[crotchboots-m]

there is plenty of blame to go around for all concerned. the historical parallels are self-evident....with the 1990s standing in for the 1920s. uncontrolled greed and avarice got us here,and it looks like pain and suffering is the only way to get out of it. hopefully government intervention will prevent it from having the same duration and severity as the great depression of the 1930s. or maybe someday we will be telling the younger generations about "hard times".

[shrimper]

<snip> "The truth be known, however, the current "crash" can be traced back to the 1970's and the Carter Administration and "The Fair Housing Act.," and compounded by actions taken by President Clinton and Democrat members of the congress with the Community Reinvestment Act. Especially Rep. Barny Frank and Con. Senator Dodd. <snip> This is what I responded to. If you uncloud your mind while you read my response you will notice I am describing how one builder among many more misused the law and the people it was supposed to help for unethical, immoral and illegal purposes to make a profit knowing full well that the people they were putting into the houses couldn't afford them. They then took the federally guaranteed loan proceeds and walked away, saddling the government and the community at large with the fallout from their actions, i.e. vacant substandard homes, lowered property values, increased crime, etc. If I extend your logic to another situation it would say "If someone breaks the Ten Commandments its God's fault for creating them in the first place"

[Bubba136]

<snip> If you uncloud your mind while you read my response you will notice I am describing how one builder among many more misused the law and the people it was supposed to help for unethical, immoral and illegal purposes to make a profit knowing full well that the people they were putting into the houses couldn't afford them. They then took the federally guaranteed loan proceeds and walked away, saddling the government and the community at large with the fallout from their actions, i.e. vacant substandard homes, lowered property values, increased crime, etc.

If I extend your logic to another situation it would say "If someone breaks the Ten Commandments its God's fault for creating them in the first place"

Talk about clouded minds. What are you talking about..."its God's fault"

You're not making any sense.

I fully understand the point you're making in your post and agree with you that the business practices of the builder that caused your current situation, is a large part of the problem.

But were talking apples and oranges, here. You are talking about just one part of the cause --abuse of the federal loan guarantee program by builders and/or mortgage lenders -- and I'm talking about another part -- government's failure to conduct sufficient oversight into the operations of FannieMae and FreddieMac that would have prevented the situation that occurred in your area and throughout the mortgage industry and financial system, in the whole. If the government agency responsible had exercised adequate oversight into the industry, the way they wanted to and weren't allowed to by congress, a lot of what were seeing today wouldn't have occurred.

If it wasn't so easy for someone (builders, in your case) to write sub-prime mortgages for people that couldn't repay them, and then allowed to unload them on the federal government, who guaranteed them, we wouldn't be in this situation. (we agree here, don't we?)

If someone breaks the law and the police, despite being handed convincing evidence that the person committed the crime, let him get away with it, whose fault is it that the criminal goes unpunished?

[crotchboots-m]

dont you just love the way the excrement hits the fan when politics or religion is discussed?

[Bubba136]

dont you just love the way the excrement hits the fan when politics or religion is discussed?

It's great, isn't it?

[shrimper]

Bubba136, we seem to be getting back on the same wave length. I just get a little defensive when I hear folks saying its the fault of the lower income folks who were in good faith trying to get a leg up in this great land of opportunity.

[Guy N. Heels]

Nice try, but the true source of the problem is far more complex (you'd need a minimum of 5 years to understand it) and requires a much longer answer than the mods around here will tolerate. What we are seeing is merely the latest episode of a very sorry shell game that the international bankers have been playing for centuries. Nevertheless, in order to keep my answer as brief as possible, I'll simply respond to your post.

At the moment, the current state of the world's economy has a lot of people concerned. There are a large number of retired people in this country (USA) that have watched their investments shrink to a point where they are beginning to think they'll not have enough income from them to live on.

The blame game is in full swing. The Democrat Party faithfuls have been quick to place the entire blame on President Bush and Republicans. The truth be known, however, the current "crash" can be traced back to the 1970's and the Carter Administration and "The Fair Housing Act.," and compounded by actions taken by President Clinton and Democrat members of the congress with the Community Reinvestment Act. Especially Rep. Barny Frank and Con. Senator Dodd.

Again, nice try, but the real problem goes back to 1914 and passage of 2 bills: The Federal Reserve Act and the fraudulent 16th Amendment, which was never lawfully ratified by 3/4 of the several states. All of our other national financial problems have their roots in these two bills. BTW the so-called Federal Reserve Bank AIN"T none of those things. They are a private corporation, they have no reserves, and they can't even cash a lawfully drafted check drawn against the US Treasury. I'll let you figure out the rest of this sorry story.

Two good sources for the facts surrounding the current economic situation are: (Google: Boston.com - Jeff Jacoby - article entitled: "Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco." And the other one is a utube video at: utube video .

This is a rather lengthy video. Take a few minutes and watch it all the way to the end. It is factual in that every statement and allegation can be completely backed up by official US Government records.

I don't know about you guys, but I am so angry at all of the members of our current government, I would, if I could, throw all of the bums out. Beginning with everyone responsible for this situation and severely punishing the guys on wall street and in the mortgage industry for their part in causing this world wide economic crash.

Of the 535 elected reps on Capitol Hill, about 530 ought to be taken out and publicly horsewhipped at least once a month!

As one of our commentators says: "Let your heart not be troubled, the truth will come out!"

The sad but simple truth is that the international bankers have built for themselves a "house of cards" that is now tumbling down. The present emergency is real, but I seriously doubt that our gullible world governments can rescue it. Big Oil - maybe, but not without huge cutbacks in executive salaries and the highway robbery prices they're charging.

[JNR]

There seems to be a lot of problems yet to be discovered.

[Bubba136]

Thanks for the history lesson, GNH. (Were you at the first meeting? )

No doubt there are a lot of crooks out there just looking for ways to make an easy buck. The MAFIA, for instance. I believe there is a whole hell of a lot more to this fiasco than has surfaced thus far, GNH, and your information just adds to the growing pile. Who knows how far back into history the origin of these financial problems go. (Perhaps a similar financial crisis is the reason the Roman empire fell off of it's pins - development of counterfeit salt, perhaps?)

Here's another thread that recently surfaced. Please note that my attempts to locate the particular HUD report cited in this article have been unsuccessful. Every search I've conducted leads back to the KFIY report. So, I cannot vouch for it's validity. It is interesting, however it's plusable and might be a part of the reason shrimper is having problems:

"Five Million Illegals Have Illegal Mortgages in U.S.A.!

By Warner Todd Huston October 9, 2008 - 11:42 ET

A single report by KFYI radio of Phoenix, Arizona highlights a shocking claim made by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). HUD says that five million illegal aliens hold illegal mortgages. This is just one more example of the lax lending laws put into place by Democrats like Barney Frank that have contributed to this economic crisis. One would think this would be big news. But, so far we have only this one report to cover it.

There have been earlier stories of home flipping schemes that made liberal use of illegal aliens as straw buyers and the FBI has followed numerous cases to prosecution and conviction. But the Old Media have not done much with this story.

KFYI reports that these fraudulent straw purchases of mortgages by illegal aliens has affected every state in the union.

One illegal alien was arrested this year in Tucson after allegedly using a stolen social security number to buy two homes and rack up over $780,000 in bad debt.

Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

It's not known how many of those have contributed to the subprime housing mortgage meltdown, but it has affected every state, including Arizona.

The problem began years ago when banks were forced to give mortgages without confirming social security numbers or borrower identification. As a result, illegal immigrants were able to obtain home mortgages which they could not afford.

Lax immigration laws have also helped make this crime easy to perpetrate. In 1965 a Democrat Controlled Congress under President Lyndon Johnson passed the concept of "chain" immigration into law. A later commission named the Hesburgh Commission convened during Ronald Reagan's first term, found that this concept statistically allowed each single immigrant to bring into this country 84 of his family members. Of course, all these people have to live somewhere making such fraudulent mortgages quite attractive.

What illegal struggling to survive is going to pass up a free house that he can move into without having to present any identification, proof of employment, financial history or even a down payment?"

[vector]

"...illegal immigrants receiveing illegal mortgages..."??? Bubba, you gotta back that up or please don't even mention it. Regarding the alleged illegal alien who used a stolen SS# to rack up $800K in debt. Don't you think the mortgage originator(s) might possible be slightly culpable for not properly checking it out? How could an illegal show enough income/assets to qualify for such a loan?

[JNR]

"...illegal immigrants receiving illegal mortgages..."??? Bubba, you gotta back that up or please don't even mention it.

didn't bubba already do that?