dr1819

Well, TBG, from your many thrilling and fascinating adventures, I can understand why you love boots so much. As for me, I'll admit to being something of a latecomer to the joys of boots, and while I recognize how sexy the right pair of high heeled boots can look, be they on the legs of a male or female, pumps will always be my first love. Still, I like boots as well.

Interesting! Pumps are my last resort, as there's no restraint across the instep and my toes are jammed into the toebox. Boots, on the other hand, particularly when laced up the vamp, provide terrific vamp restraint, thus freeing my toes to do what they do best - wiggle!

I met him once, years ago, in the early 80s, during one of my first, and one of his last, CONs. He wore a kilt, the bottom half most preferred by his most famous character, Lazarus Long. I never got a chance to speak with him, but I overheard him talking to others. While old, he was still full of life, but more importantly, he held to an ideal, that no one should be treated differently simply because they're different. I was surprised to hear him utter words along these lines, but I shouldn't have been, as he wove this thread throughout his many novels. He was truly a champion of those who contribute to society while not necessarily conforming to societal norms. If you'll recall, in Number of the Best, slipstick Libby, upon resurrection, told Ishtar that he really wanted to be female, so Ishtar renewed him as a female.

Does this discussion need to be re-vamped?

Good for you! My pastor once raised his eyebrows and asked about why I wore heels, but my answer, "I'm more comfortable in them" seemed to put him at ease. After he got to know me better, he never mentioned it again, and none of my other friends from church have mentioned it, either.

A lot of it really is conditioning, but a more important aspect has to do with the fit of the heel itself, and whatever built-in cushioning is available. The modern running shoe allows people to go 28 miles without pain in their feet, but the modern heel doesn't allow people to go 2.8 miles without crumpling to the ground in pain. With few exceptions, heels are designed and built for looks, not comfort. The best way to shop for heels is to find one that fits like a glove in thin socks, no tight spots, and then spend twenty or thirty minutes standing in them while looking at other shoes, talking to the shopkeeper, etc. If there's absolutely no pain whatever, anywhere, they're probably well-made, ergonomically speaking.

Fashion is changing very fast and nobody goes into shock about anything any more. We need more men to get out in their heels so that others can see that it's OK to wear what ever you want without being ridiculed.

I believe what's really going on has nothing to do with accepting men in high heels. Rather, it has to do with the globalization of the economy, media, and the prolifically increased exposure of subculture trends. People around the globe have become used to the idea that "being different is ok," an no longer react in shock and awe when a man sits down in a restaurant wearing an earring.

My first exposure to this new reality came in two parts. The first part was way back in the mid-1970s when my couisin was visiting us in a large, fairly progressive city. As we were walking one way, a man in a beard, smoking a pipe, and wearing a mini-skirt and fetish heels walked by us in the other direction. She was only six and asked, "Mommy - what was that?" As I watched him continue to walk down the sidewalk, many others turned their heads. Most muttered under their breath, a few made rude comments. Again, this was a progressive city, where the nightlife was rather risque.

The second part, fast-foward 25 years, when I was stepped out of my car late at night and walked into a high-profile restuarant, expecting to be kicked out because I was wearing 4" stiletto boots. Even though the staff noticed instantly, much to my surprise, I was ushered to a prominant table (not something in a corner), and waited on quite normally. Although the other patrons saw my heels, and I noticed they noticed that I, a guy, was wearing heels, that was the full extent of their reaction, the rest being total nonchalance.

Gotta have fun man!

Congratulations! You're among those who've made it through the transition to reality.

Please consider to share trips of your journey with the rest of us, so that we might follow suit.

Well, on a gross scale, physics definately plays a role which is why elephants don't look like ants and spiders. On less of a scale, the larger the individual, the thicker, meatier they'll be. Consider the petites of the world as compared to those women who're genuinely six foot. It's not genetics - it's survival of the fittest.

As long as you present a tasteful, subtle image that isn't too "out there", you can wear heels just about anywhere. The biggest hurdle is mustering up the courage to go and do it, and once you've jumped said hurdle, the rest is easy.

I absolutely agree with you on both accounts. If you're a fetish heeler, you either learn to deal with the adverse affects or you fold.

On the other hand, if you enjoy heels, but aren't interested in the shock effects, integration into society at this point is pretty much a done deal - just do it. No one cares one way or the other.

As for thirteen year olds reading the board, I don't have kids myself, but if I had a thirteen year old boy I'd rather he was reading this board than a lot of the other stuff that's floating around out there. ...our board is grounded in reality.

Chris

Thanks! It's taken some work, but I think it was well worth it. If the fetish stuff (the psychological kind) were here in any significant amounts, I'd never have registered in the first place.

One of the reasons I did register and began participating is because there were a lot of other decent women and men who simply shared a keen interest in heels.

One of the things I've enjoyed the most has been seeing pics of the members and their heels.

I was happy about the decision behind keeping men out of the women's forum. The women seem quite capable of keeping their posts out of the men's forum, but the converse wasn't true, which had caused the women's numbers to drop precipitously. The single additional rule was devised to reverse this trend, and it appears to be working quite well.

Meanwhile, most men are quite happy with the occasional female post in the men's section. I've not heard any complaints or seen the numbers of our male members die off in droves. If either occurs, we'll address it then.

Therefore, I hardly think the single additional rule can even remotely be termed a "New sex-segregated rules." A much more appropriate description would be, "New female respect rule."

Please note that "rule" is singular. And we're certainly not out to segregate the sexes here on this board! There are 24 forums available to all members, and only one is off-limits to men. That means that women can participate in 100% of all forums, and men can participate in 95.833% of all forums. We men are restricted from posting (including the mods and admin, by our own choice), in just 4.167% of all the other forums which are available to us.

Put simply, there's really very little reason to be upset!

Rules are a key ingredient for a properly functioning society. Without rules, no society can function. The only societies that have survived the annals of time developed good rules, and instilled well-balanced measures to ensure the rules carried some weight without being oppressive.

We have several other rules on this board, some more important than others, but all must be followed. They exist to protect the rights of every member in good standing from being beaten down by others who have few to none built-in rules in their social conditioning. The rules are fairly simple, in line with a modern, polite society, and serve to protect the majority from the few that would disrupt normal communication, personal growth, group enlightenment, and other socially desirable conditions, while minimizing socially undesirable conditions, such as bullying, disrespect, and conduct and content not appropriate for most thirteen-year-olds.

Bottom line: The additional rule has proven fruitful, and as such, it's probably here to stay. If you wish to discuss issues with the ladies, please see the For Everyone forum, or PM them. However, be advised that while we cannot monitor PMs, we CAN respond to complaints from those who receive PMs which break the rules! And given the clandestine nature of PMs, we tend to be quite a bit more harsh about questionably content in PMs than we do about content which is posted in a public place.

This is a good thing, as it helps to keep everyone here safe, happy, healthy, and more apt to dive into various discussions about everything from heels to housewives to househusbands to houses to how-to's to hotels to horse leather to hurts to happiness, to healing, and beyond.

And that's a very good thing!

I like your attitude, Susan, and am glad to hear you no longer feel like you have to defend everything. Sometimes the best defense is to simply choose not to reply. It helps others to learn to grow up, too.

From the other post which probably spawned this thread:

"If nobody can stay on topic"

(I suspect this will be moved - fair enough, but for the reasons I describe below I'd prefer to keep it in the same thread as admin's message - and that's the nub of the problem).

This is a perennial complaint in any threaded collaboration system. It's sometimes difficult to work out where a conversation diverges from the nominal thread topic - especially where people make side comments that trigger responses. And it's frequently useful to keep the history of the communication, even when the topic is not so much turning a corner as corkscrewing.

I've been on the Internet for over 20 years now, starting with Usenet when the number of newsgroups was still in the low hundreds. I've run a social communication system (in my case a MUD) since 1990. I've not yet found any software that "does what I want" in this area! When writing my own software for such things, I've played with the notion that threading is "soft" - that each message stands on its own and can be placed as part of multiple threads, can spin off a new thread (even in a different area) and so on. A tapestry, rather than a series of threads all going in one direction. This is one reason I tend to reply to one point in one post! It's very flexible, but requires considerable discipline on the part of the posters, or a certain amount of cultivation from the moderators.

A question to Admin, or indeed to the moderators: are there any facilities in this new software where normal posters like me can start a new thread linked into an old one by the system, rather than having to post twice, once in the new thread linking back (with links that are sometimes broken by forum upgrades) and then once in the old thread linking forward once you know the URL of the new thread? Such a facility might make people more inclined to split threads when there's an obvious divergence, rather than carry on because they're scared that their fellow contributors won't find the new thread and link it to the current one.

Excellent points. My first dial-in BBS, in 1986, allowed for threads to branch off. Although it was dial-up, and phone lines were expensive back then, my friend and I had four incoming lines. When connected, even at just 9600 baud, this text-based system that ran on a dedicated 286 was fast! Faster than most BBS's.

I'm not sure which one it was, but both QuickBBS and TurboBBS come to mind. I was an admin on a different BBS that ran the other one.

When SLATE first came out, one of the Internet's first message forum sites, it didn't have branching capability, and so was really a disappointment. Following the branch was very easy - just tab to it and hit enter. The default was to always follow the root thread.

This post is taking this thread round a bit of a corner, I just want to comment on something I read on the girls' forum and this is probably the place. Yakumo doesn't care about his partner's health in twenty years. He says he will carry her around for the rest of his life. What would make any sane woman believe that? He thinks so little of her that to gratify his desire to see her wear high heels that he doesn't care if she does permanent damage to her body. How ridiculously sick is that? "Oh, honey, if you'll just wear 6 inch heels for the next ten years I'll carry you around for the next thirty."

Yeah, I wonder how long that'll last.

It's time those who're more rational on this board start calling these types of sick, twisted "promises" into question to protect others who may be visiting our board for answers.

People who truly love one another never asks the other to sacrifice so much. Instead, their primary goal is to minimize the sacrifices their spouses must make to make the marriage/family work.

Agreed. Generally speaking, the shoes should match the belt or purse, but it's ok to wear one color, or different colors, provided they're complimentary. White and tan aren't complimentary. Black and tan, however, are. White looks better with brighter colors, which is why you'll almost never find a pair of men's dress shoes in white, as men normally shy away from brighter colors and pastels.

Indeed I am, and it's damn good to be back too! It's like having been separated from a special sort of family. Words can't describe how good it felt to have gotten so much in the way of well wishes when I returned. Being away from here was certainly no fun!

JeffB, family is defined by those who care about you most. You're certainly among family, here.

Welcome back!

While I enjoy all of his parts, I do so like walking behind him, and watching his bum when he is in heels, don't completely understand it all myself. Simply enjoy the way it makes me feel....

Katherine

He's a very lucky guy to have someone like you!

Why do we do that with dogs? Does the Earth go round the Sun faster for a dog? Me thinks not.

Oh yeah, before I lose the thread, I'm 37.

Way back when, dogs lived 1/7th the number of years as your average human.

With modern day veterinary science, this value has been significantly reduced (to about 1/5th).

No, as the user Sexishoe wrote, he has that exact pair because he outbid me in the auction for them.

I have nothing good to say about "collectors", because they can't nearly treasure beautiful shoes like those, as much as someone who would actually wear the shoes.

Agreed - a pair is wasted if it's not on the foot!

As for my "sexy collection," it's as follows:

2-1/2" block/rubber-heeled black leather boots from Predictions. They're my most comfortable pair, and I often wear them to work, as the heel disappears beneath a long pair of pants.

3-1/2" heeled Franco Sarto Nolans. Black leather heeled loafers. They're my most comfortable high heeled shoe, and I've been wearing them almost exclusively after hours, grocery shopping, to movies, on dates, etc.

4" heeled clogs from Pelle Moda. I wear these primarily around the house, but have occasionaly worn these while shopping at the mall. Noisy, though.

I've 18 more pair, but they're mere reflections of these.

I have been on the verge of several purges in my life but I have always resisted the urge to carrier them out because I know that its not the answer and in a few weeks time I will regret doing it.

Good for you! It's much better to make a scathingly honest personal inventory and continue through life as who you really are, than to attempt to conform in ways which just aren't you.

Some 50 years of observation gives the nod to Miss Street's statement. Apparently women wearing any kind of high heels tend to wobble around, but stilettoes definitely accentuate this motion. Since I have only seen a handful - usually very large, statuesque, athletically built women -who don't, I must assume that it has something to do with the shape of the female pelvis and hips. On the other hand, men don't usually wobble. We just fall and break our ****s.

I disagree. All males have to do to not "plant their foot down solidly" is to simple lean back a little, their hips forward, shoulders back, and plant each foot a little to the inside of where they'd normally plant their feet.

Ahem! While leather is quite different from plastics and a lot of other stuff, nevertheless, leather IS a man-made material!

Actually, I'm quite certain it's a bovine-made material, for the most part, followed by porcine, and to a lesser extent other animals.

The term "man-made" is reserved for materials who's origens are entirely synthetic, such as nylon. Cotton is entirely organinic, and is not considered "man-made," despite the growing, harvesting, combing, spinning, weaving, and sewing processes which must ensue. Leather has several similarly processes, including calving, growing, slaughtering/skinning, tanning, working, and (help me out here, Dr. Shoe, as I'm not sure I'm using the right word) lasting.

Wool, cotton, leather, flax, fur - none are considered man-made materials, even though considerable effort is required by man to generate useful products from them.

Right now I'm wearing a pair of leather shoes with a 3-3/4" heel. They're not "man-made."

Researchers? What researchers? Two pictures qualifies as research about like I qualify as Superman!

Well, as long as we can jump off a tall building, I'm sure we would qualify as half-Superman!

END OF STUDY! Results are in. I can strut my stuff better or with the best of any woman or man in heels.

Ummm, I'd have to disagree with you there. You do wobble a bit side to side over several strides.

In May, while visiting the gym that my girlfriend at the time visited, she said, "I'll go out with you tonight with you wearing whatever heels you want, provided you can walk the balance beam in them without stepping off, flapping your arms, or otherwise showing you're off balance.

I did, and we had a wonderful evening.

Not a problem with me though cause I like wet and messy.

I like wet and messy, too, but only as it applies to mudpies I'm making with my son (who's a bit beyond that, now) or my neighbor's kid (who's not - he loves mudpies!)

I'm something of a traditionalist when it comes to women's shoes, especially pumps, and shoes like these with all that toe cleavage are a complete turn-off and don't look the slightest bit attractive to me. But hey! I'm not judgemental, to each their own!

Ditto. How ugly!

Besides, the toes were never meant by God to support the forward slide of the foot in a high-heeled shoes. Long-term attempts at this results in deformity of the toes, bunions, corns, hammer-toe, and all sorts of other problems.

Properly-designed high-heel footwear incorporates restraints across the instep or around the ankle which prevent this from happening. They also may include a slight elevation in the footbed ahead of the ball of one's foot. The latter is only successful, though, with a properly designed instep restraint, or at the very least, wider straps across the base of the toes which ensure the wearer's ball of their feet meet squarely with the restraint.

My current favorite heels are the ones I'm wearing today, my Franco Sarto Nolans. I'd prefer a narrower, quieter heel, but the rest of the shoe is sublime, including leather uppers which do all the restraining I need to keep my toes from permanent deformation.

And of course they look wonderful! I walked through the Frankfurt Airport two weeks ago to pick up a colleague, and no one batted an eye at them beneath my long jeans. Back in the car, my colleague noticed, and he was quiet for a while, wondering what he was getting into or what to think, but a few ice-breaking comments later, he was asking me to both recommend and join him at the nearest good pub. I think he wanted to see how the crowd reacted, and when they didn't, he didn't either.

That was two weeks ago, and as I sponsored him in, I've had frequent contact with both him and his wife. They're both very cool with it.

Here in the USA men seem to be paranoid about projecting an effeminate image. If women are wearing a style, then any self-respecting man would not.

Bingo! Shock Queen, I thanked you, too, as both you and dressboots hit things dead center.

The idea that heel=effeminate is horsehocky. Heels were invented by men, for men, and evolved upwards of five inches between 1500 and 1800 (that's 60% of the last 500 years, folks). They only died as men's wear because of the French Revolution, where they became synonomous with opulence/wealth.

Even so they saw a small resurgence in the 1960s and a broad resurgence in the 1970s. Many men today wear heels, including Tom Cruise and Nicholas Cage, as do plenty of rock stars including Kravitz and Prince.

The male population that has ever visited this board (more than 5,000)represents, by my best estimates, between 1/10 and 1/1000 the total Western male population that wears heels on a regular basis.

That's between 50,000 and 5 Million wearers.

This constitutes between 1 out of every 12,000 of all men in the US, to 1 out of every 2,800 men worldwide.

The stats are tricky, as there's no real hard data.

My best guess, adding up the populations of the western world from which 90% of our heel-wearing members originate, it comes to

Total male Western Population of countries represented by members on this board:

283,750,005

Total probable number of male high heel wearers out there: 2,800,000

My "best guess" as to the number of men throughout Western civilization who wear heels: .986784%

Rounding it, it comes to around 1%.

2.8 Million Western male street-heelers is a lot of people, folks!

And this represents the public figure, ie, those who've worn heels in public on more than one occasion. I believe the figure for men who routinely wear heels in private (their own homes), is between 10 and 20 times this percentage. Thus, best guess is that around 15%, perhaps as high as 20%, of all men wear heels on a regular basis.

That's significant, folks.

If women are wearing a style, then any self-respecting man would not.

I had to narrow this one down a bit.

Ok, so women are wearing pants, flats, heels, skirts, dresses, robes, blouses, shirts, gloves, body stockings, wraps, ponchos, jackets, sweaters, etc.

I guess it's time all self-respecting men dress in sackcloth and ashes or just go naked!