Are your perceptions affected by others

[lotsofheels]

I am curious about how perceptions change based on what other people think. Specifically, I know that when my dad first pierced his ears 50 years ago, everyone thought he was gay and he received very few compliments on his earrings. Now it's very commonplace to see guys with pierced ears and no one thinks of earrings as female-only jewelery. What about high heeled shoes? If a woman really likes the look and feel of high heels, could they also get to like seeing men in heels also if lots of men wore them?

[SarahLou]

Hello This is just my opinion, so im not saying that its how everyone thinks - but personally, I will never like to see a guy in heels. I love masculine men, and to me if a guy wanted to or did wear heels, it would take the masculinity away. Also, heels seem to emphasize the femininity of a womans body, so they dont seem to suit men in the same way. Although, this is mainly in regard to stilettos & very high heels - I see some guys wearing chunky heels, and don't mind that really.

[new_look]

in my opinion heels dont make a female body more feminine. it is the body and the assets of it and how the woman chooses to use them that makes the femininity. People assume heels are 'feminine' only and that they only create an effect on women because we are brought up used to seeing them only on women. like cowboy boots, theyre a rugged masculine style. however put a playboy bunny on some and colour them pink and suddely they are feminine shoes enhancing femininity.... no dont think so. no more than when i wear my pink tshirt it makes me less masculine...

[Histiletto]

My perceptions for males wearing heels hasn't really been tested, because I haven't had anyone around that I feel comfortable with enough to rely on their judgement for supportive or constructive feedback on this subject. You might say I am a hermit in a crowd of people. Of course, I have dealt with the perception of male high heelers and the cruel inequality caused by the social indoctrination of our inept standards, all the days of my life. Society doesn't understand the fact there are people who really don't fit into their idea of the gender classification. Everyone has all the gender traits in them. Depending on the individuals feelings and desires, some of these traits are developed as they grow. There are times the development doesn't follow the social guidelines, so the individuals were taught the standards to make them comply. Those who didn't get in step with the social teachings were labeled as types of outcast to be looked down on. Males who want to wear high stiletto heels have been put into one of these outcasted groups. These outcast aren't wrong or uncorrect in their thinking. They just didn't fit into what society wanted them to be. Just look around you! Does everyone fit into the mold of masculine males and feminine females or are there other combinations, such as sissy and tomboy. If you don't see the difference, you need to get out more to mingle and talk with some people you don't know or understand. Once males wearing any type of high heels becomes a common occurrence in everyday living, there will still be those who oppose it, but like your Dad's earrings became acceptible, so will males heelers. I just hope it takes a considerable shorter time for males to be accepted as high heel wearers, but this won't happen if we don't start becoming more active in this cause. We, the males who wear heels in secret, must get some courage and just walk down the street in heels, even if the heels are covered under our bootcut jeans. We'll become more comfortable with ourselves as we continue to walk in them. Maybe we could actually meet some people and have the opportunity to talk about our heels and the experience we are having just walking around. Meeting another secret heeler is also possible. Either way, you are not just wishing and waiting, and waiting and wishing for the time to come. Life can be lived in the present. Any other time is remembered or dreamed. You can do that while walking. To many of us are wishing we could have. Making our wishes come true usually has to be our responsibility. From past experience, society won't usually help. No one can deny the allure and attractiveness of high stiletto heeled pumps. They are definitely eye pleasers. They will enhance anyones look, as long as the wearer has found the correct size, has endeavored to remain physically fit with a miniimized fat content, and has walked in them enough to wear them proficiently.

[johnieheel]

Histiletto; Very well said, and as for SarahLou, sorry but I cannot believe that heels of any kind can emphasize the femininity of a woman's body. As a personal trainer and health and fitness nut, I believe that the femininity of a woman's body comes from how well she takes care of it and presents her self to others physically and mentally. I have always believed that if you are confident in yourself and present yourself with high self esteem, it doesn't matter what you wear. You will get the respect as masculine in heels or feminine in heels. It's not about the shoes you wear. On the other note about men in heels being excepted socially, Histiletto, you make a very good point. I'm just waiting for the day to run into another guy on the street or in a store that stops me and says he would like to wear his heels in public but was afraid of what people might think or say. It's coming. So you guys need to quit wishing and being afraid and get out there and help us guys out a little. Once again " IF YOU CANT BE YOURSELF THAN WHO CAN YOU BE" Aren't you just sick and tired of what people think? Dare to be different!

[Jamie001]

Sarah,

What is a male was to say "I like feminine women". When a woman wears a tee-shirt, low heel men's style shoes, and blue jeans, it completely takes away her femininity. No offense intended. I am just pointing-out the double-standard that exists. Also, we should remember that high-heels were invented by men, for men. George Washington wore heels to his inaugural ball.

Regards,

Jamie

"What is good for the goose, is good for the gander"

Hello This is just my opinion, so im not saying that its how everyone thinks - but personally, I will never like to see a guy in heels. I love masculine men, and to me if a guy wanted to or did wear heels, it would take the masculinity away. Also, heels seem to emphasize the femininity of a womans body, so they dont seem to suit men in the same way. Although, this is mainly in regard to stilettos & very high heels - I see some guys wearing chunky heels, and don't mind that really.

[johnieheel]

SarahLou; I know it might sound like we are attacking you but we're not. Just trying to help you understand the other side. Please continue to comment.

[Susan (the original)]

SarahLou, I agree with you completely. Stay true to your values and thank you for not being afraid to speak your mind. Lotsofheels, your original question for this thread, "Are your perceptions affected by others", my answer is a definit YES. Experience is an incredible teacher and I've had more than I'd like when it comes to men and heels. Originally, I simply didn't care for the idea for a host of very personal reasons. Now, being a woman who isn't afraid to defend herself, her values, or other women, I've learned what to expect. So yes, my perceptions have very much been affected. Jamie001, I doubt very much George Washington was wearing 5" stiletto heels. I realize those weren't part of your description, but will you refer me to the location of the descriptions of what he was wearing? I'm simply curious. If you want to talk about history and men with their heels, OK. Let's talk about past centuries when the fine men in their heels be-headed any woman who defied them. I mean no offense, I'm simply pointing out the double standard. Johnieheel, there is always an "other side". SarahLou has a side, Lotsofheels has a side, Jamie001 has a side, you have a side, I have a side, and so on. So who's side is more valueable? You tell me. Perceptions, yes, they go a long way. Susan

[new_look]

susan please re read my first reply to this thread. which was based on my opinions of looks, not behaviours or other people thanks

[Susan (the original)]

New_look, I re-read you post as you suggested. In it you said, "People assume........................", and then contined with further description. What other people are doing, or what you assume they are doing, is behavior, your's or their's! You were in fact talking about other people's behaviors. In return I'll ask that you re-read my post and you'll see that your name is not mentioned. I never questioned your opinions or your option to offer them. Additionally, the only reasonable interpretation of the opinions you mentioned in your second post were the opinons of others. In my 10/13 post when I said, The "opinions" you speak of........................., that in reference to generic "opinions" of others, not simply yours. It always seems this fulishness come about due to a complete breakdown in communication. Please read every word. Johnieheel, , I know. Every woman who defends herself and sticks to her values needs counseling or some kind of therapy. In virtually every thread on these forms when a guy wants to know what to do to make is wife accept his high heels, the answer is send her to counseling. I'm also curious. In your 10/13 post you said I "need *more* therapy.............. Why would you say such a thing? I'm not in therapy, I think I deserve an answer. The topic of this thread is perceptions, if they're affected by others. I'll try once again to get a message across. No Johnieheel, contrary to what you said, I've had an incredibly good life. I've said that so many times on these forums it has to have the record for being the most repeated statement. The ugliness in my life that you mention is not mine. It's the ugliness in the lives of many others that has touched and impacted me. We're just getting better at understanding how to use what we learn. Behavior is a heck of an influence when it comes to perceptions. Examples: 1. My life or lifestyle in the heels isn't any secret here. It's not necessary I review it. There was a forum thread (different forum) some years ago that wanted to know (since my feet and ankles are always arched) if I had an orgasm during the birth of my children and if they were born with defects. Now, I realize there are always the few who come up with this sort of garbage (behavior) and the general population wouldn't think of it. The part that really stood out though is that no one, absolutely no one chimed in or expressed any dissatisfaction about what was done to me. *The perception* The behavior was satisfactory and met with the standards of the forum membership. 2. On one of those threads asking what women think of men in heels, women such as myself were marked as having the principles of "racists". One of the most vile hate filled identities in the English language. Now, race is a birth right. To me it's the love of my Creator. Something I respect and deeply cherish. It's not a choice or a behavior. My opinion of men and their high heels is a matter of disagreement with their "choice" and "behavior". The introduction of the idea of racist principles in a woman's personal values contrary to those of the high heeled male can only be perceived as pure hate for her. That thread is still on this forum. No one, absolutely no one openly found anything wrong with it. *The perception* The behavior was satisfactory and met with the standards of the forum membership. (In fairness, Firefox did send me an e-mail addressing his feelings. I respect him for that.) I've got pages of those but it isn't necessary to go any further. Johnieheel, you're right, I used to get mad and try to fight back. I lost everytime. Heck, I was banned from a forum after I vigorously defended my dead husband against a terrible and false accusation. That's when I decided I had enough and it was time to get a message out. I'm getting pretty good at it and I'm quite happy. Now, so no one gets the wrong "perception", it isn't about the shoes, it is in reality all about behavior. Susan

[johnieheel]

Well Susan, most of what I have read about how to get a wife or SO to except his heel wearing has definitely not been send her to therapy. It has been for the most part, just be honest with her. There are a lot of men that has had to give up their passion for heels because they waited to long to tell her. The advice I always give is tell her right up front as I know a lot of women can not deal with it (men in heels). So if the desire for a man to wear heels is part of what he is then she has the right to know before they fall in love and he should fish in different waters. I apologize about the therapy thing. I have dated women that are very defensive on just about everything I bring up and have this mile high wall that will probably never come down and it just seems to me from reading your posts that you really do try to complicate things more than necessary and are very defensive on the subject of men in heels and if this is so, why are you here? Why can't you just join in and have a little fun? The subject of this post is very simple to me. Of course my perceptions are affected by others and we all just want to know in what way our own personal perception is affected so we can compare It's only conversation.

[hoverfly]

Let's face it the practically of any body wearing 5" heels in public is limited, so no mater what they are going to be a spectial, man or woman. But it's all in how one dresses any way.

Another lets face it, there are just as many men who are not masculine just and there are women who are not feminine. The only advantage that non feminine women have is they use make up to enhance their appearance to look fenamen.

And one last lets face it, everybody has in their own mind what they are attracted to, masculine or feminine is not exclusively owned by either gender. Only biology rules writes the rules on that.

Back in the 1940's and1950's husbands would halved been a target of many jokes. In who was the "man" of the house. But as we can see things a different today, nobody thinks any different about women wearing pants to day. The same with heels on men, only time is needed. The argument has been won over a long time ago.

But only yesterday a woman in her 40' with her daughter was having a bitch fit about me standing up to her on cutting in line at Walmart. I was wearing boot cut jeans that showed the boots I was wearing with a full 3.5" chunky heel. That's until my GF just scowled at the other woman making her realize that I was hers. The woman was very quite after that. Ovously it was more than just cuting in line was the issue...............Bitch.

[Bubba136]

But only yesterday a woman in her 40' with her daughter was having a bitch fit about me standing up to her on cutting in line at Walmart. I was wearing boot cut jeans that showed the boots I was wearing with a full 3.5" chunky heel. That's until my GF just scowled at the other woman making her realize that I was hers. The woman was very quite after that. Ovously it was more than just cuting in line was the issue...............Bitch.

Perhaps I'm thick, dumb, dull....so, please tell me what's your point? Are you saying that the "other woman" was being "bitchy" with you because you were wearing boots with heels? And, that that is the reason she "cut" into the line? or, that she was being "bitchy" because you cut in line?

One other point:

The same with heels on men, only time is needed. The argument has been won over a long time ago.

Which arguement are you referring to? The argument of woman wearing pants? or men in heels? If you're talking about men in heels, if "the argument has been won over a long time ago," Then these discussions aren't really necessary, are they?

Just "wondering."

[lotsofheels]

I feel like I inadvertantly stepped into a hornet's nest with this one. When I originally asked the question, I wasn't looking to stir up people's deep-seated emotions concerning gender and identity issues, just to find out whether people's views on things in general and guys wearing heels in particular were innately in-born or rather heavily shaped by how others viewed them. I don't think most of the replies really shed much light on this question. Am I wrong?

[Guy N. Heels]

I feel like I inadvertantly stepped into a hornet's nest with this one. When I originally asked the question, I wasn't looking to stir up people's deep-seated emotions concerning gender and identity issues, just to find out whether people's views on things in general and guys wearing heels in particular were innately in-born or rather heavily shaped by how others viewed them. I don't think most of the replies really shed much light on this question. Am I wrong?

No Lotsofheels, you did not inadvertantly stir-up a hornet's nest with your perfectly reasonable topic.

So Lotsofheels, please don't get side-tracked by those who post off-topic, and do keep those high heeled issues coming.

[hoverfly]

Perhaps I'm thick, dumb, dull....so, please tell me what's your point? Are you saying that the "other woman" was being "bitchy" with you because you were wearing boots with heels? And, that that is the reason she "cut" into the line? or, that she was being "bitchy" because you cut in line?

Nope, we were next, she cut in line from the back to the front of us. We were waiting on some one to finish up on either self check out. Usually the associate will ask them to go back in line and wait, but she was busy with somebody else having problems. I fallowed her eyes, bubba, they were not fixed on mine, but my shoes. She most likely saw them when she came from behind as well to cut in thinking that I was a easy push over. Most people will tuck tail and apologize, this one was pissed for more than one reasoned. There are four general responses I get form wearing heels in public, they like it, and engage in some small talk about my heels. They are surprised/dumb struck to see me in heels. They don't care what ever flots your boat. Or they "woman" get really pissed/jellous, be very hostle but they tend to be small numbers, this last one was number two in five years of heeling.

One other point:

Which arguement are you referring to? The argument of woman wearing pants? or men in heels? If you're talking about men in heels, if "the argument has been won over a long time ago," Then these discussions aren't really necessary, are they?

Either one History tends to repeat it's self as we tend to forget the past, diffrent subject same formant and end result. Next subject and repet.

Just "wondering."

Nice of you to ask, next?

[Guy N. Heels]

Nope, we were next, she cut in line from the back to the front of us. We were waiting on some one to finish up on either self check out...

Nice of you to ask

Thanks for your comments, Hoverfly. Unfortunately, both Donna Reed and Loretta Young (their TV images, that is) were really fictionalized portrayals of the American woman. The real American woman started wearing pants and peddle-pushers in the 1940's - if not before. Did this tend to diminish men? I'm not sure. At any rate, it tended to usher in an era where women became much more rude and crude in all their behavior.

I most certainly do not want to see women revert to Victorian era fashion. Nevertheless, I have noticed that whenever women take off the shirts & ties and get into more flowing gowns and heels that their behavior seems to improve correspondingly. Along this same line, I think that any woman who insists upon "masculine men" needs to also pay much more attention to her dresses and heels.

[sendra45]

Hi Everybody, I have just spent a great deal of time trying to tidy this thread up and keep it on track. If any of your posts have been deleted or edited you have me to blame, if you want to say anything about the moderation here, do it via PM and keep this thread on track. right, back to the topic please.

[kneehighs]

I am curious about how perceptions change based on what other people think. Specifically, I know that when my dad first pierced his ears 50 years ago, everyone thought he was gay and he received very few compliments on his earrings. Now it's very commonplace to see guys with pierced ears and no one thinks of earrings as female-only jewelery. What about high heeled shoes? If a woman really likes the look and feel of high heels, could they also get to like seeing men in heels also if lots of men wore them?

That's one way to look at how we create a self image. From the outside ---> in. To answer your question, my belief is that if Big Tobacco can convince people that smoking is sexy, marketing and publicity can convince people that heels for men are sexy. If more men wore them, people would become habituated to the sight of men in heels and the shock factor would likely dissipate, IMHO.

[bigbadkatz]

To me, high heels are shoes. Shoes are inanimate objects. They are not in themselves the end-all of one's gender or sexual orientation. I am still 100% heterosexual, no matter what I wear. I can still lift heavy objects and all the other stereotypical things that men are supposed to do, even if I occasionally walk around the house in a pair of 5" pumps. I never wear them in public, due to the reactions I know I'd get.

I am curious about how perceptions change based on what other people think. Specifically, I know that when my dad first pierced his ears 50 years ago, everyone thought he was gay and he received very few compliments on his earrings. Now it's very commonplace to see guys with pierced ears and no one thinks of earrings as female-only jewelery. What about high heeled shoes? If a woman really likes the look and feel of high heels, could they also get to like seeing men in heels also if lots of men wore them?

[Guy N. Heels]

To me, high heels are shoes. Shoes are inanimate objects. They are not in themselves the end-all of one's gender or sexual orientation. I am still 100% heterosexual, no matter what I wear. I can still lift heavy objects and all the other stereotypical things that men are supposed to do, even if I occasionally walk around the house in a pair of 5" pumps. I never wear them in public, due to the reactions I know I'd get.

At the risk of sounding too much like Spock, I am often fascinated by the comments that people post here. The reasons that people wear heels seem to be about as varied as the number of members we have on the board.

I like heels because of their appearance and, lately, they have become a neccessity due to my collapsed spine. In short - I'm short and I literally cannot reach the things I once could.

Shoes? You bettcha! Inanimate objects? Well, I'm not completely sure about that one.

I do consider heels to be a sexual prop, but not to the point that I require them on all occasions or for sexual reasons. I'm sure that others will have different views on this.

BTW, you'll never know for sure just what kind of reaction you will receive until you do go public. You might be quite astonished at the way people react.