UK ban on smoking in public

[CraigR]

As a cancer survivor myself, I appreciate no smoking laws. I have never smoked myself, but my dad, mom, and sister did so I did get second hand smoke. I was diagnosed with Kidney cancer in 2002 and one of the first questions they asked me was, "Do you smoke? If so quit....now!" It is too late now to worry about whether second hand smoke had something to do with my cancer, I've got more important things to focus on now. But, it is nice to know that someone else may be spared this disease because they didn't have to deal with second hand smoke. There is the personal choice side of things, but there also is the cost to the public. Whether you are in the US style system, or the European/Canada style system (and I'm not debating the benefits of either system), a lot of our tax dollars go towards taking care of people who made a personal choice to do something that has been proven to be harmful. I personally would like to see that money go towards finding cures for cancer and other diseases. Just my 2 cents worth. These opinions are the opinions of CraigR and do not necessarily represent the opinions of High Heel Place, or it's owners.

[Guy N. Heels]

As a cancer survivor myself, I appreciate no smoking laws. I have never smoked myself, but my dad, mom, and sister did so I did get second hand smoke. I was diagnosed with Kidney cancer in 2002 and one of the first questions they asked me was, "Do you smoke? If so quit....now!"

...a lot of our tax dollars go towards taking care of people who made a personal choice to do something that has been proven to be harmful. I personally would like to see that money go towards finding cures for cancer and other diseases...

Hi, Craig. Since I am also a cancer survivor (my cancer had nothing to do with smoking), I can most definitely identify with your story. Unfortunately, your statement is all too true. Smoking has been identified as the number one cause of preventable disease in America (and I suspect, the world). IMO, the diseases associated with smoking are the Indian's revenge for what the white man did to them here in America.

[Kari]

July 1st cant come quick enough, i'm not a*sed if someone wants to die a slow death as long as they dont stink me out while they're doing it thanks

[thedesigner]

Whereas Iwould be pleased to have a pint with you (London Pride please!), and willingly accept that you will not start a fight, break the place up or break into property afterwards, there are certainly plenty of people who would. I consider a smoking area and a non-smoking area to be a reasonable compromise, and with stronger restrictions on the amount of alcohol supplied. I hold my breath passing many mainly english restaurants cos of the stink of stale fat (and my clothes stink similarly if i do go in), but i'm not calling for them to be banned - it's personal choice, there's plenty of pleasant restaurants, and i'm sure there is a niche market for all smoking bars. Oh well, we can sit outside this weather and share a pint and a ciggy, after checking the wind direction....

[Guy N. Heels]

Unfortunately, unless you ban smoking in public places, only smokers have the right to choose. Smoking areas only work if they're enclosed, otherwise it's like having a peeing area in a pool. I have no problem with people smoking outside in public, but anywhere with a roof I fail to see why I should have to put up with the smoke. It's not only unhealthy, it's disgusting.

Chris

Here I must add my support to Chris' assertion. Unless you are talking about a hermetically sealed area, a designated smoking area in an indoor public place is really no compromise at all! All you've really done is kowtowed to the smokers while trampling upon the rights of the non-smokers. As a former smoker I can see both sides of the argument - much more clearly now.

[johnieheel]

Well I, along with many many others I know are very happy that we can now visit any resturant or lounge in Ohio without the stench of smoke and breeth freely. To me there is nothing more un attractive than a beautiful woman with a cigerette in her mouth. YUK!

[chris100575]

Well, we've been smoke-free in the UK for a while now and what a breath of fresh air! It's so much nicer going to the pub and actually being able to breathe in there, not to mention getting home and not stinking like an old ashtray. None of my friends who smoke have been particularly bothered, they just nip outside for a tab and come back in when they've finished, and a couple have decided that it's a good excuse to cut down or quit. I agree with Johnie about smoking being unattractive in a woman. I saw one the other day, very pretty lady driving a nice car (can't remember what!) the image only spoiled by the fag hanging out of her mouth. Chris

[admirer5577]

Well I, along with many many others I know are very happy that we can now visit any resturant or lounge in Ohio without the stench of smoke and breeth freely. To me there is nothing more un attractive than a beautiful woman with a cigerette in her mouth. YUK!

Couldn't agree with you more. It is banned in Sweden since about two years now and today actually also the bar and restaurant owners realize how good it is. Much less of their staff is being home sick every now and then and they got a lot of "new" customers who avoided these kind of places before. The non-smoking customer turned out to be far more interesting for the owners than the smoking ones. *cough, cough*

Happy non-smoking healing everybody.

[euchrid]

Well, we've been smoke-free in the UK for a while now and what a breath of fresh air!

Hear! Hear!

Unfortunately, there's a downside to it during the glorious weather we're currently enjoying.

We non-smokers have to share the beer garden (or beer patio in most cases) with the smokers. That's not a problem in itself - and was always the case previously, of course - but at many of the pubs I visited this weekend and last, there was a disgusting amount of 'smokers detritus' strewn around.

The ashtrays were all overflowing and giving of a stench like something had been cremated and the pavement around each seating area was a sea of dog-ends, spent matches and other filth.

As with the other commentators here, I don't particularly care if some idiots want to grow themselves carcinomas - It would just be nice if they could keep public spaces clean while they do so.

[Guy N. Heels]

Hear! Hear!

...The ashtrays were all overflowing and giving of a stench like something had been cremated and the pavement around each seating area was a sea of dog-ends, spent matches and other filth.

As with the other commentators here, I don't particularly care if some idiots want to grow themselves carcinomas - It would just be nice if they could keep public spaces clean while they do so.

Right On! Sometimes I pull into a parking space only to find a pile of ashes and cigarette butts where some thoughtless person has dumped them out of their car. Very disgusting, to say the least!

[thedesigner]

Ah well here's the case for the opposition...... I've not smoked for long but part of my reason was for being told how to 'behave'. I resent all this sh** about smoking. I as all smokers know all about it, its called personal choice. By all means have a majority of nonsmoking pubs, but allow us some slack, then you won't get butts all over. It's a laugh that pubs are having to spray the bars with scent to mask the smell of the bogs nowadays the smell of smoke has gone !! Please get real, particulates from diesel are v carcenogenic also, so are they going to ban diesel engines....... Breweries pressured the government to ease opening hours, now theres liver cancer from people overdrinking, so are they going to ban it..... no the breweries pay too many backhanders !! I never was offended by smoke before I started smoking, except fk off big cigars, so please live and let live !! There's enough interference in our freedom already !!

[johnieheel]

Diesel? They took the sulfer out of diesel and made it much cleaner and safer to the envirement a few years ago. At least here in the US. As for live and let live? Duh. Thats pretty much a no brainer when you add all the deaths up in one year and guess what the #1 killer in the world is? YEP, tobacco related illness. Tobacco should be ban all together like alot of other drugs that don't do near the harm. Now, should we get started on second hand smoke that kills 50,000 plus a year just in the US? Never knew of anyone with liver cancer to give it to another like second hand smoke. Aint about freedom. It's about living a long and healthy life the best you can so when someone is blowing second hand smoke in my face, it's affecting my health and I aint gonna take it!

[Guy N. Heels]

Ah well here's the case for the opposition......

I've not smoked for long but part of my reason was for being told how to 'behave'.

I resent all this sh** about smoking. I as all smokers know all about it, its called personal choice...

I never was offended by smoke before I started smoking, except fk off big cigars, so please live and let live !! There's enough interference in our freedom already !!

I respect your right to make a free choice so long as the choices you make do not infringe upon the rights and health of others. Unfortunately, anyone who chooses to smoke - under whatever circumstances - has chosen disease and death. Medical science is now calling smoking the number one cause of preventable disease. So why not ditch the weed and celibrate your life and health while you can still enjoy it?

[Arctic]

I wonder why there is so much debate about why smoking in public should be banned. I don't care that it is the single most important cause of death, preventable or not. I don't care that it is highly addictive. As a matter of fact, I like the thought that smokers pay themselves blue in taxes when they smoke and that they die on average 10 years younger (making smoking not yet a net contributor to the society, but that's just a matter of a tax hike). It also partly solves the upcoming demographic problem. What I HATE, is that second hand smoke is UNBELIEVABLY ANNOYING for non-smokers, especially those who have never smoked. It is HUGELY irritating. Nobody has the right to irritate me that much. I'm all for live and let live, but people who smoke don't do that to me. As a reference, breathing the exhaust of a 1972 diesel bus smells like a flower field compared to someone smoking next to me. Beijing's air is a lot fresher than in any bar anywhere in the world without a smoking ban. So I propose the following: - Let's tolerate smoking, even encourage it in appropriate places, but ONLY in air-tight enclosed areas (homes or private establishments where there there is 100% guarantee of no disturbance. That includes banning outside) - Let's penalize smokers heavily in the healthcare system - Let's criminalize smoking under 25 to reduce the chance for addiction creation in youngsters - let's hike tobacco taxes and punish grey import heavily - let's penalize cigarette litter heavily - let's start a campaign, funded by tobacco tax, to push the image of tobacco as seriously uncool. As a consequence: - smoking liberty remains - smoking disturbance disappears - kids hopefully stay away from smoking more in the future - tobacco tax revenue gets used for preventing next generations from smokers to emerge - smoking-induced diseases are not anymore funded by non-smokers -> more fairness in welfare Seems simple to me.

[Guy N. Heels]

I wonder why there is so much debate about why smoking in public should be banned.

I don't care that it is the single most important cause of death, preventable or not. I don't care that it is highly addictive. As a matter of fact, I like the thought that smokers pay themselves blue in taxes when they smoke and that they die on average 10 years younger (making smoking not yet a net contributor to the society, but that's just a matter of a tax hike). It also partly solves the upcoming demographic problem.

What I HATE, is that second hand smoke is UNBELIEVABLY ANNOYING for non-smokers, especially those who have never smoked. It is HUGELY irritating. Nobody has the right to irritate me that much. I'm all for live and let live, but people who smoke don't do that to me. As a reference, breathing the exhaust of a 1972 diesel bus smells like a flower field compared to someone smoking next to me. Beijing's air is a lot fresher than in any bar anywhere in the world without a smoking ban.

So I propose the following:

- Let's tolerate smoking, even encourage it in appropriate places, but ONLY in air-tight enclosed areas (homes or private establishments where there there is 100% guarantee of no disturbance. That includes banning outside)

- Let's penalize smokers heavily in the healthcare system

- Let's criminalize smoking under 25 to reduce the chance for addiction creation in youngsters

- let's hike tobacco taxes and punish grey import heavily

- let's penalize cigarette litter heavily

- let's start a campaign, funded by tobacco tax, to push the image of tobacco as seriously uncool.

As a consequence:

- smoking liberty remains

- smoking disturbance disappears

- kids hopefully stay away from smoking more in the future

- tobacco tax revenue gets used for preventing next generations from smokers to emerge

- smoking-induced diseases are not anymore funded by non-smokers -> more fairness in welfare

Seems simple to me.

Well, although I respect your right to your opinion I cannot fully agree. To the best of my knowlege personal smoking was unheard of in Europe until Sir Walter Raleigh introduced tobacco smoking (from his trips here to America and his observation of the native Indians smoking tobacco). However, what Raleigh failed to tell the people in Europe was that the American Indians only smoked tobacco for ceremonial purposes (at least I've never heard of them using it for personal recreation).

However, what the American Indians never told Raleigh (and possibly they had no real way of knowing themselves) were the health hazards associated with smoking. Now without going into a long laundry-list of how the white man has mistreated the American Indians, suffice it to say that a very great deal has gone wrong. So in my estimation, the health hazards associated with smoking (all types) amount to the red-man's revenge for what the white-man has done to him!

Now, take it from me, no further punishments need to be added to the hazards we already know about! The cumulative effect of smoking is so devastating that I can safely say that all smokers will one day quit - many do so just before the undertaker is notified. So to my mind, the smart thing to do is to circumvent the red-man's revenge by either never taking-up smoking, or quitting just as soon as you read this. After all, nothing says you have to smoke, but I guarantee that you'll live longer and better if you don't!

BTW, I quit over 30 years back and have never regretted it.

[johnieheel]

Thank you Guy N. Heels. I to quit smoking about 15 years ago and had no idea why until I sobered up 12 years ago. I then took up life. Living a long and healthy life and practiced how to eat and excersise. I am now 53 and on my 50th BD I ran 10 miles and worked out for 2 hours. Last night when I got home from work I ran 2 miles. First mile at 6 mph and the second at 7 to 7.5 mph. The doc said my risk of heart attack is 0 to none and there is NO trace of cancer in my body anywhere. I give God the credit to lead me to this and quiting smoking was the main contributor to my health. It's never to late.

[Guy N. Heels]

Thank you Guy N. Heels. I to quit smoking about 15 years ago and had no idea why until I sobered up 12 years ago. I then took up life. Living a long and healthy life and practiced how to eat and excersise. I am now 53 and on my 50th BD I ran 10 miles and worked out for 2 hours. Last night when I got home from work I ran 2 miles. First mile at 6 mph and the second at 7 to 7.5 mph. The doc said my risk of heart attack is 0 to none and there is NO trace of cancer in my body anywhere. I give God the credit to lead me to this and quiting smoking was the main contributor to my health. It's never to late.

Hallelujah, amen! And the good news is that it just gets better and better. Try a fruit juice or water fast about once a month. After you sweat-out the accumulated toxins you'll find that life really is worth living!

[chris100575]

Ah well here's the case for the opposition......

I've not smoked for long but part of my reason was for being told how to 'behave'.

I resent all this sh** about smoking. I as all smokers know all about it, its called personal choice. By all means have a majority of nonsmoking pubs, but allow us some slack, then you won't get butts all over. It's a laugh that pubs are having to spray the bars with scent to mask the smell of the bogs nowadays the smell of smoke has gone !!

Have some non-smoking pubs is a none-starter, all that happens is if you're in a mixed smoking / non-smoking group is that the smokers whine if you try and get them into one and everyone ends up in the smoking pub. This is partly because smokers are by nature inconsiderate as far as smoking is concerned, and partly because you couldn't find a non-smoking pub in the first place.

I don't know where you drink, but none of the pubs I've been in have had any problems with the smell from the bogs because they've been reasonably clean. This is traditional boozers I'm talking about too.

By the way, I love the fact that you started smoking because someone told you not to. I just hope nobody ever tells you not to jump off a cliff.

Chris

[Fog]

They've now banned smoking in restaurants in France - as from January 1st. It was unbelieveable to see French men and women huddling outside having a quick drag. It makes it a lot nicer for the rest of us. The waiters were a bit confused at Buffalo Grill (yes call me philistine) they started with fumer ou non - but only got as far as the first syllable.

[thedesigner]

in our fave restaurant the owner and staff come out and join us for a fag. There should be smoking pubs/ restaurants BECAUSE logically there is the same proportion of smokers in the hospitality business as in the public at large, ergo they would also the opportunity to have a fag break indoors. Those who like it, come in, those who dont, go elsewhere, we all would have a free choice, that's democracy at work !! ......... they'll be banning smoked salmon next.....

[johnieheel]

in our fave restaurant the owner and staff come out and join us for a fag. There should be smoking pubs/ restaurants BECAUSE logically there is the same proportion of smokers in the hospitality business as in the public at large, ergo they would also the opportunity to have a fag break indoors. Those who like it, come in, those who dont, go elsewhere, we all would have a free choice, that's democracy at work !! ......... they'll be banning smoked salmon next.....

It's about clean air and health. Not smoked salmon. Tobacco, like many other drugs should be band completely. Apparently you haven't kept up on what the #1 killer in the world is. That's right! Tobacco.

We have the right to breath clean air. Keep your deadly smoke outside.

[yozz]

Actually I am quite happy that here in the Netherlands we get this ban, starting July 1-st. I am very sensitive to bad air, and the smoke has given me quite a few migraine headaches. Back in the seventies I wanted to attend a lecture series by a Nobel laureat, but due to the smoke I got a terrible headache. The rest of the day I spent in a dark room on bed. Needless to say, I couldn't attend the other lectures. In those days quite a few smokers would become rather agressive if you would dare to say something about it. If you are in a mixed company, it are always the smokers who insist to go to the bar in which you can smoke. If you object you are asocial. In Spain at the moment, bars can determine themselves whether they are smoking or nonsmoking. Guess what: nearly all allow smoking for the above reason. It is very hard to find a bar that is nonsmoking. I used to say, before they banned smoking in our building: if you don't smoke in my room, I won't fart in yours. To me that sounds like an even proposition. Actually there is a much smaller chance that my disgusting behaviour will give you a headache and it is probably less unhealthy. I am not sure whether this is 2 dollar cents or 2 euro cents worth of opinion..... Y.

[johnieheel]

Every opinion here is a good opinion. Everywhere that smoking has been band in bars, the bars have increased there business up to 300%. They bitch and worry at first but as new costumers start to filter in, they get happy again.

[euchrid]

Yep, I rate the whole thing a major success. All we need now is for pubs to get rid of those huge bloody sports screens. If I wanted to see sport, i'll be at home watching it thanks. Pubs are for socialising, not gawping at TV's.

[thedesigner]

actually no, sales have fallen a lot, there is an article in our local paper how trade is down a lot in pubs since the bna, our restaurant is up in arms too... You guys in the US should bans guns first before going off about tobacco, it's getting to be a problem in the UK now...

[admirer5577]

In Sweden smoking in restaurants were banned about 1½ year ago, and the comments from the smokers and the owners of the restaurants were not nice to start with. But now everyone appreciates it; the staff have less sick days, the turnover have increased because a lot of the non-smokers now are going to pubs/restaurant which they didn't/couldn't before and the smokers smokes less on a night out which they also appreciate. If it was for me to decide; ban tobacco completely, it is of no good to anything.

[johnieheel]

actually no, sales have fallen a lot, there is an article in our local paper how trade is down a lot in pubs since the bna, our restaurant is up in arms too...

You guys in the US should bans guns first before going off about tobacco, it's getting to be a problem in the UK now...

Please, lets keep the gun thing in the correct post. Tell your restaurant and pub owners not to worry. As soon as the smoke clears there business will increase considerably.

[yozz]

If it was for me to decide; ban tobacco completely, it is of no good to anything.

I don't think that will work. Look at drugs. It will just make criminals of people who,

if they smoke under the `proper circumstances' are only hurting themselves.

There are many things that are no good to anything (depending how you look at it).

I think that one should go as far as properly protecting the nonsmokers, and no further.

Y.

[johnieheel]

I don't think that will work. Look at drugs. It will just make criminals of people who,

if they smoke under the `proper circumstances' are only hurting themselves.

There are many things that are no good to anything (depending how you look at it).

I think that one should go as far as properly protecting the nonsmokers, and no further.

Y.

Probably right. Would just make criminals out of good people.

[JNR]

Besides, if our governments would totally ban the sale of tobacco products from the market, the loss of revenue from the Tax that is collected, at all levels, would be disastrous for Federal, State and local governments.