New sex-segregated rules

[DandyDude]

Okay, now no male is allowed to post ANYTHING in the "girls'" forum for any reason. Supposedly that will bring back women to posting there. Well, what kind of women post there, based on what I've seen so far of course? You have a woman who was a long ago poster emphatically saying that she would have nothing to do with men who wear heels. She also intimates that men who wear heels are NECESSARILLY trying to pose as women. While that may be true of some, now most apparently, of the posters here, it is not mechanistic. I recall when the problems about that forum appeared to be getting to a head back awhile. There was a poster who kept insisting ALL men who wear heels want to be women. She took people's postings out of context, argued with quite a few, including me. I gave it back to her two for one. Some others agreed with me, while others practically encouraged her abuse and supplicated to her rantings. The problems started when an influx of the gender crowd appeared on the boards. They started to post there and gradually took over the forum, driving the few real women away. They were given their own forum, but the seeds of division they had planted grew quite fast. That has been discussed many times elsewhere, and not only by me. It eventually led to the first of the "reforms", that all topics there had to be strictly about women, which was reasonable, if a bit stilting to the postings. After a few twists and turns, it got to the point it is now with no males allowed whatsoever on that forum. Perhaps some of the women who posted here before will return. Would they be the kind who thinks all men who wear heels are budding trannies? I'm inclined to believe so. If so, is the male segment of this board so desperate that they would encourage abuse by women and for the sole purpose of keeping women on the board? As it appears a lot on this board are into forced transvestism/"feminisation," it would not suprise me in the least. While the Stilettos Goddess herself, LHeels of course, had issues with men wearing heels, she fully admitted her contradictions, and was willing to engage in some dialogue with men. She is well missed by me. Great heels, and a bit of a brain as well, albeit a bit frustrated. I believe I used the coffee klatch analogy first in terms of how women tend to see their forum. As I also said, men who wear heels have different issues such as gult feelings over liking heels. I do not see the influx of the gender crowd as being conducive to men's coming to terms with something that is really harmless, and I also see the extreme attacks on heel-wearing men by supposed women I think would be better served by the likes of style.com as having the same effects. Funny how the women on those more overtly female oriented boards are more likely to be willing to at least consider the idea of men in heels than on this supposedly sexually integrated one. I know that I'm not the only one who wonders just how many of the shit-stirring female nyms who were here for awhile were actually men posing as women. Not posing as trannies, but posing as actual women. Again, perhaps some women will post, perhaps not. Perhaps the forum will be taken over by poseurs, perhaps not. If women do post, will they be spouting the same old rubbish about heeled men being trannies de facto? Time will tell. I now turn this topic over to any and all comments. Thank you.

[HeelD]

Sole reason why women are in a minority at the HHPlace: Women don't need a forum dedicated to High Heels to discuss about wearing High Heels. They already have The Fashion Spot, Vogue or Style.com for that. Women don't need emotional support when wearing High Heels because it is socially acceptable for them to wear heels without ridicule (although ridicule for men is dwindling) and worrying about what people think about their sexuality.

[hoverfly]

I would have to agree that most women accept or at lest tolerate men in heels out side virtual reality. Only a few on this board who been absolute against men in heels have proved to be unwilling to apply common and intellectual brain power to look beyond the cover of a book. But then again the older the person the less accepting they are to new ideas and change. Or others are down right bigots, and brain washed religious fanatics. I see no reason why men should be involved in the Girls section any more and should be left to the Girls. Those who have been against men in heels have clearly, acutely sunk their own ship with out us have to point it out. Let them seek freely, here unless it violates the rules and let the mods post links to the guys section if we have something to say about it. As what I have seen on other boards the majority of women are not agents men in heels, just steer those to those board and let the women discuss it

[DandyDude]

Sole reason why women are in a minority at the HHPlace:

Women don't need a forum dedicated to High Heels to discuss about wearing High Heels. They already have The Fashion Spot, Vogue or Style.com for that. Women don't need emotional support when wearing High Heels because it is socially acceptable for them to wear heels without ridicule (although ridicule for men is dwindling) and worrying about what people think about their sexuality.

Bravo!

Personally, I think the only way that any female posters will be regulars here is if they are the more extreme types such as LaurieHeels. Yes, women have the regular fashion boards to discuss what they wear, and heels are acccepted for them so it does not have the pathos of men who wear them.

In short, I agree with you about the women, but try telling anyone that. As for male acceptability, I believe it to be getting worse, for the reasons that the dl thing is so strong plus the tendency of the media and people in general to think of anything not "regular" as "transgender."

[DandyDude]

I would have to agree that most women accept or at lest tolerate men in heels out side virtual reality. Only a few on this board who been absolute against men in heels have proved to be unwilling to apply common and intellectual brain power to look beyond the cover of a book. But then again the older the person the less accepting they are to new ideas and change. Or others are down right bigots, and brain washed religious fanatics. I see no reason why men should be involved in the Girls section any more and should be left to the Girls. Those who have been against men in heels have clearly, acutely sunk their own ship with out us have to point it out. Let them seek freely, here unless it violates the rules and let the mods post links to the guys section if we have something to say about it. As what I have seen on other boards the majority of women are not agents men in heels, just steer those to those board and let the women discuss it

I say, let the women who bitched about men being in that forum lie in the bed they themselves made. Let them put up or shut up, meaning post or don't post.

I would dialogue with a few of the more respect-worthy women in the past, but they are gone and I don't wish to argue with the "men in heels want to be women ipso facto" crowd that seems to be having their way. So, I don't really give a flying anymore about it.

[chris100575]

It's a shame that it's had to come to "don't post in the girls' section" from "only post in the girls' section about women wearing heels", but I'm prepared to respect it. I'm aware of whom the first post is referring to, but as I joined the board after all the furore I'm prepared to give her a clean slate. I don't agree with a lot of the things it was said she said, but I didn't hear them first hand. I just hope that our few remaining female members will stay, and the the new rules will prevent their section being overwelmed by TV / TG posters. Only time will tell. Chris

[DandyDude]

If you want to see what the fuss was about, check the older threads with similar topics in the female forum. That person and I really went at it. I'd gotten tired of the same old refrain and so many of the other posters were scraping and grovelling that I just couldn't ignore it anymore. To the admins: I've noticed you are deleting men's posts on older threads there brought back up. I am asking you to not do that, please grandfather those threads in. For one thing, they were made before the rule change. Secondly, it throws the metre/continuity off of the thread immensely. Thank you.

[chris100575]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but would prefer to take her as I find her. That said, one of her recent posts in "for the girls" I did find provocative. I think she has issues, but MrsHeels did a great job of replying. Chris

[dr1819]

Okay, now no male is allowed to post ANYTHING in the "girls'" forum for any reason. Supposedly that will bring back women to posting there. Well, what kind of women post there, based on what I've seen so far of course?

Actually, a few years ago, before uncontrollable men drove them off, there was a rather large contingent of women who posted there regularly, on a wide variety of quite good, healthy, wholesome, female-heeling topics.

They enjoyed themselves, and life was good.

Along came a bunch of dudes who thought that because they wore heels and other feminine clothing they could post there willy-nilly.

The women felt violated, robbed of their territory, and almost all of them left.

Since this is a site about heels, not about males who wear heels and who outnumber the women in the women's section by 5 to 1, we came up with this rule to restore balance to this website.

Please respect our decision.

If you want to see what the fuss was about, check the older threads with similar topics in the female forum. That person and I really went at it. I'd gotten tired of the same old refrain and so many of the other posters were scraping and grovelling that I just couldn't ignore it anymore.

To the admins: I've noticed you are deleting men's posts on older threads there brought back up. I am asking you to not do that, please grandfather those threads in. For one thing, they were made before the rule change. Secondly, it throws the metre/continuity off of the thread immensely. Thank you.

From what I've seen, older threads prior to the moratorium date have indeed been grandfathered.

There may be a slip here and there, but that date was very well discussed and will be honored. I'll bring up possible slips on the moderator's forum.

Thank you.

[MrsHeels]

I would dialogue with a few of the more respect-worthy women in the past, but they are gone and I don't wish to argue with the "men in heels want to be women ipso facto" crowd that seems to be having their way. So, I don't really give a flying anymore about it.

Hello Dandy Dude -

There are a few new members who are women, I have found them to be respect - worthy, and can only ask that you please not generalize us, and give each new lady a chance to earn your respect and dialogue.....

As for men posting in the girls section, I find all of this silly. I am a strong "Girl", and cannot be run off just because there are more men here then girls. If I felt you were overwhelming me in "my" section, I would respectfully tell you.

I personally find the mens opinion of a womens subject informing and important to me, but this is me, and I am not the administrator of this forum.

Would be great if we could all share and play nice....I wear a size 11, Anyone wanna come play with me???

Katherine (Mrs. Heels to the Mr. that wears my heels too)

[DandyDude]

Actually, a few years ago, before uncontrollable men drove them off, there was a rather large contingent of women who posted there regularly, on a wide variety of quite good, healthy, wholesome, female-heeling topics.

They enjoyed themselves, and life was good.

Along came a bunch of dudes who thought that because they wore heels and other feminine clothing they could post there willy-nilly.

The women felt violated, robbed of their territory, and almost all of them left.

Since this is a site about heels, not about males who wear heels and who outnumber the women in the women's section by 5 to 1, we came up with this rule to restore balance to this website.

Please respect our decision.

Thank you.

I don't think you quite grasped my point. I KNOW that there were regular female posters. I REMEMBER when that forum was invaded as opposed to what I and a few others did, which was post there to either ask the women a question, or to engage in a bit of dialogue on a topic. It didn't bother the women then. There are older threads from when LaurieHeels was a regular wheer some real dialogue was going on, no stupid attacks/supplication from either side.

What DID really cause a lot of problems was the influx of the gender crowd, which as I said was discuswed in all those threads about who ought post in the women's forum and who ought not. They were given their own forum, but they had their cake and ate it as well. Meaning, they posted in the tranny forum whilst also dominating the women's forum.

Eventually, the supplication/begging started. A certain poster who said that all heel wearing men were ipso facto trannies started severe arguments with several people. I jumped in after having been away from the board for awhile. It was impossible to take both the insults from that poster and witness the supplication of some of the other posters who were so desperate for female posters they would put up with such crap as that one gave out.

I'm willing to go along with the segregated forums. Perhaps there will be more female posters, perhaps not. If there are, will they be any worth dealing with. Do the men here really want a nest of queen bees who hold them in absolute contempt?

Time will tell.

[DandyDude]

Hello Dandy Dude -

There are a few new members who are women, I have found them to be respect - worthy, and can only ask that you please not generalize us, and give each new lady a chance to earn your respect and dialogue.....

As for men posting in the girls section, I find all of this silly. I am a strong "Girl", and cannot be run off just because there are more men here then girls. If I felt you were overwhelming me in "my" section, I would respectfully tell you.

I personally find the mens opinion of a womens subject informing and important to me, but this is me, and I am not the administrator of this forum.

Would be great if we could all share and play nice....I wear a size 11, Anyone wanna come play with me???

Katherine (Mrs. Heels to the Mr. that wears my heels too)

Hello Katherine Heels:

Thanks for replying. I would not say that I was judging all women who may post here, but only commenting on a few shit-stirrers who seemed to have gotten their way now. I had posting chats with a few of those who are no longer around, I enjoyed it immensely. LaurieHeels was quite interesting and had great taste in shoes to boot, no pun intended but unavoidable.

I'm willing to go along with the new policy, let's see what happens. I do think the "women only" crowd would be better served by the more female oriented boards, although they ironically enough have some male members and the women don't mind their discussions.

Size 11? I wear a men's USA13. Like yours, it is one size above the cut-off point for standard sizes. I have a hard time finding regular "male shoes", let alone heels. I've found a site which has ankle boots made in USA up to women's size 15W and WW inclusive. They are very well made and quite resonable. They fit quite well.

Perhaps the everyone forum will begin to fill up with male/female dialogue. We shall see.

DD

[sendra45]

What you all seem to forget is that when a female member asks for support or answers from other females, she means just that. And yet, the men here just continue to flood the threads with posts. dont tell me that this is the way to keep female members. Also, if a wife or girlfreind wants to know what others have gone through when they found out their man wears heels, they are noot going to get what they are looking for from the guys. So the way I see it, they guys can post anywhere in the HHplace apart from 'for the girls' is that so much to ask? (and dont bother answering that ).

[new_look]

This isn't about the men seeking an additional channel.

It's about keeping the women's channel clear of male posting that historically became so prolific with male posts it drove most of the women away.

We're in the process of correcting that.

Stay out of the women's area. Those who can't will be permanently driven away by the mods and admin.

Capisca?

[asdf174]

Thats cool I can respect that rule I never posted in the girls section anyway. But I just wanted to say that I notice the board has gotten kinda of conservative or at least a tad bit more stirct which I know is because you want a better image for the site which I think is great. But try not to be too overzealous about it. To many rules will drive people away.

[hoverfly]

Out of all other places for men to post, what the hell is one segregated thread going to hurt?

[dr1819]

Out of all other places for men to post, what the hell is one segregated thread going to hurt?

Since it's just one thread among many, please refrain from posting there.

Thanks.

By doing so, you're respecting the rights of the women who do post there, and hopefully (time will tell), help rebuild this board's female population to former levels, particularly since it's the only thread among many that the women can call their own.

To many rules will drive people away.

You're absolutely correct. Too many rules along one line will drive some people away, while too many rules along another line will drive other people away.

The goal of our administrative staff is to promote an open forum with respect to the wear of heels, but guard against this forum being overrun with either males or females, or other issues such as narcism, transvestic fetishism, etc. So long as the posts adhere to the few simple rules (one of which is no male posting in the women's forum), the healthier the forum is as a whole.

[DandyDude]

Indulge me as I started this thread. My points were that the fighting was started by the influx of the gender crowd into the women's forum. Certain female posters left, others decided to stir shit. I can think of one who actively baited by accusing all heel wearing men of being ipso facto trannies. I got into the argument because I was tired of the insults and also sick of the supplication. I wondered recently if it's good for the board to have female posters who actively despise the men here. There are many boards where the men grovell and the women insult them. There are also many boards where men boast about their "modifications." There are a few boards where men discuss their style choices, but they tend to be segregated by sex. This is the only board that has been trying to deal with men wearing heels in a non-fetish way, inclusive of women, as those of us who wish to wear them as part of a style would be ridiculed on fetish boards and drag boards as well. I'd like a return to the days of reciprocal posting. Those were my points, more or less.

[jmc]

. . . But I just wanted to say that I notice the board has gotten kinda of conservative or at least a tad bit more stirct which I know is because you want a better image for the site which I think is great. . .

Please let me add my two cent's worth here (feel free to convert to local monetary units as necessary)--

I think the apparent conservatism in this board stems from two sources:

1). The new administration is enforcing rules that have always been present. This is especially true for rules with respect to decency -- the hosting service for the old board had some rather strict and well-defined rules in this area and we had to toe the line. Trouble was, the existing administration had reached a point where other life pursuits had overtaken this board and a lot of stuff was "slipping through". This allowed some members to cultivate bad habits, habits that now need to be broken.

2). As I understand the situation, we (meaning the administration) want this board to be a kind of "gateway portal" for anybody who has an interest in high heels. Whatever your gender, if you are into heels you can come here and find something of interest. Your own personal interest may take you beyond the scope of this board but this is a place to start. There are a lot of other heel sites out there.

As an example, take my own personal experience. I found this board some five years ago after a Web search for "men wearing high heels". Had I found a great number of pictures showing genitalia or the like, I probably would have clicked my way out of here never to return. (It does not serve us well to "scare off" new members with overly graphic content.)

After about a year and a half of "lurking" I decided to register and begin posting. But as I readied myself to "take the plunge" a veritable "war between the sexes" broke out because women felt their forum was being invaded. Many of our celebrated female members left during that fracas and have not been heard from since. We are hopeful that enforcement of the rules and keeping guys out of the "for the gals" forum will make this board more female-friendly and keep more women around.

Now as much as we guys like our heels, you cannot really have a well-rounded discussion of high heels without including input from women. And if keeping the ladies interested here means letting them have a place of their own, I do not think that is too much to ask. Most of us are actually straight guys so we enjoy having the women around!

[asdf174]

Yeah I know and I totaly agree. I guess it didn't come off as big of a problem to me because I didn't talk to any of the female members on the site too much and vise versa. (Don't know why I'm straight I'm just one of those guys women don't really notice. Especially on the net.) But I do think it is an ok rule.

[Tech]

I'd like a return to the days of reciprocal posting.

Those were my points, more or less.

Erm, isnt this the purpose of having the "For everybody" forum???

A forum where everybody can join in or direct questions at the opposite sex?

The new administration is enforcing rules that have always been present.

He means everybody, mostly moderators though...

As I understand the situation, we (meaning the administration)

The administration being the actual moderators, not me, I just throw ideas and suggestions into play and let the moderators sort them out, unless I see something I can do and happen to be online at the time....

Just wanted to clarify that incase anybody thinks JMC is talking specifically about me here as I'm getting fed up of being accused of acting on everything myself like some kind of "God like figure"

[DandyDude]

Well, that's not how the "Everybody" forum is seen. That forum is seen as a general purpose one where you want answers from/discussion about "Everybody!" I believe the posting that is at issue started in an honest attempt to engage the women in dialogue by seeking THEIR thoughts about female oriented topics. The other that came along later was what really set things off. As for your predicament, on message boards the "admin" is higher in rank than a 'umble "mod." That is why people contact you and not the others. You are saying you are the board tech more or less, and don't have much to do with general decision making, correct? A thought here: Why not move some of the older threads in the women's section into the everybody's so people can post on them without having to worry about offending anyone?

[Tech]

the "admin" is higher in rank than a 'umble "mod." That is why people contact you and not the others. You are saying you are the board tech more or less, and don't have much to do with general decision making, correct?

Yes and no...

I'm not a higher rank, far from it, if I was then I certainly wouldnt need any help from moderators but the fact that the website simply wont function without their team efforts and experience far outways my own dinky little effort which is why I just push buttons and prefer to ask them on decisions.

I would by far place them higher than the forum admin....

You can have all the technical knowledge in the world, but with crappy people skills and little experience in the field of discussion, you have nothing.

A thought here: Why not move some of the older threads in the women's section into the everybody's so people can post on them without having to worry about offending anyone?

Excellent thought, put it to the moderators and see what they think...

I know some people have asked that things there be left alone as they are now though in a sort of "historical data" kind of way...

[dr1819]

Well, that's not how the "Everybody" forum is seen. That forum is seen as a general purpose one where you want answers from/discussion about

"Everybody!" I believe the posting that is at issue started in an honest attempt to engage the women in dialogue by seeking THEIR thoughts about female oriented topics. The other that came along later was what really set things off.

As for your predicament, on message boards the "admin" is higher in rank than a 'umble "mod." That is why people contact you and not the others. You are saying you are the board tech more or less, and don't have much to do with general decision making, correct?

A thought here: Why not move some of the older threads in the women's section into the everybody's so people can post on them without having to worry about offending anyone?

In Admin's defense, while he is the board tech, having "god" power, he both seeks and accepts the advice of the other mods here. He's a firm believer in "more heads are better than one."

That's an interesting suggestion about moving some of the older threads. Can you point to any, say, half a dozen which are definately not focused or originally intended to be women-only topics? If the threads both began and continued as a joint male-female discussion, I think it would be appropriate to move them so they can continue in the For Everyone section.

[DandyDude]

To Admin: On just about any available message board format the administrator has the most power. Moderators are limited in powers. Since in your case it is different because you are more or less the hands-on person while the rest are the staff, you did right by telling people. Check out any number of EZBoards. The admin is also the boards owner and has the most power. That is standard.

[sendra45]

To Admin: On just about any available message board format the administrator has the most power. Moderators are limited in powers.

The active mods are always in communication with the admin. We keep a careful eye on these forums.

Nige'

[dr1819]

I would have to agree that most women accept or at lest tolerate men in heels out side virtual reality. Only a few on this board who been absolute against men in heels have proved to be unwilling to apply common and intellectual brain power to look beyond the cover of a book. But then again the older the person the less accepting they are to new ideas and change. Or others are down right bigots, and brain washed religious fanatics. I see no reason why men should be involved in the Girls section any more and should be left to the Girls. Those who have been against men in heels have clearly, acutely sunk their own ship with out us have to point it out. Let them seek freely, here unless it violates the rules and let the mods post links to the guys section if we have something to say about it. As what I have seen on other boards the majority of women are not agents men in heels, just steer those to those board and let the women discuss it

Wow. I get the gist of Hoverfly's message, and have to endorse that it's dead on. Guys, if you enjoy wearing heels, terrific - please stay out of the girls' section. There are plenty of sections for you, here.

[Dawn HH]

Mrs. Heels:-) Very well said---I'm with you on that subject. Sorry---I can't play with you as I wear a 7.5M in heels. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Tech]

To Admin: On just about any available message board format the administrator has the most power.

Thanks but I already know this... The people with the power are the members and moderators. Without these, an admin has nothing to do right?

Admins just "admin" and keep the moderators in check and look after the technical stuff, its the moderators that set the tone and keep everything in check and an admin can bounce ideas off..

Moderators are limited in powers.

Dont be so sure of that. This depends how you look at it.

Since in your case it is different because you are more or less the hands-on person while the rest are the staff, you did right by telling people.

Thanks Its good to be able to give something back as I'm not exactly an expert on footwear, I'm no different to other members when it comes to this, I just wear my heels and get on with life

Check out any number of EZBoards. The admin is also the boards owner and has the most power. That is standard.

I do admin several forums for my own company and our clients so am well aware of how forums work, but I know you meant that in the nice way

[DandyDude]

Admin: I meant that as an example of how it is taken for granted that the Admin is the boss, whilst the mods are more or less the subordinates. That was all. On most message boards of whatever design, the admin is usually top dog, whilst the mods are the subordinates, not just the ones I mentioned.