Is this board homophobic?

[kneehighs]

You guys have to see these videos of Norman:

http://www.borndifferent.org/norman-on-tv.html

Just thought I'd throw this in here to lighten up the discussion a little bit.

[Guy N. Heels]

...Not sure why, but gay guys tend to pick specific areas (san fransisco, key west, etc) to live in higher percentages...

just a thought.

I think it's called: birds of a feather flock together.

[chris100575]

I'd like to see the assumption that a man in heels is gay quashed purely because it's an inaccurate stereotype. I imagine that the majority of gay men have no interest in wearing women's shoes and would also like to see people stop making the same assumption. I'm not insecure enough about my sexuality to be offended or anything if someone thought I was gay, I'd just politely inform them otherwise. Chris

[Ozzard]

The problem, as I see it, arises when two people of the same sex publicly express intimacy in a way that is normally reserved for a romantic or sexual setting. I think that most heterosexuals would find such an act offensive.

Out of curiosity, a quick check: If I re-worded that in a sexuality-neutral way as:

"The problem, as I see it, arises when two people publicly express intimacy in a way that is normally reserved for a romantic or sexual setting. I think that most people would find such an act offensive."

... would you support that statement more than, as much as, or less than your original statement?

Not criticising, just curious.

[Guy N. Heels]

Out of curiosity, a quick check: If I re-worded that in a sexuality-neutral way as:

"The problem, as I see it, arises when two people publicly express intimacy in a way that is normally reserved for a romantic or sexual setting. I think that most people would find such an act offensive."

... would you support that statement more than, as much as, or less than your original statement?

Not criticising, just curious.

First of all, I would like to point out that I am not a prude. I know all about sex and even had my own personal geisha when I was stationed overseas. So at the risk of sounding like a square peg in a square hole, I believe that truly intimate private matters should be be just that - private. I have seen heterosexual couples making such an obnoxious public display of themselves that I was moved to suggest that they find a room. Anything beyond a quick hug or a quick kiss starts to become obnoxious. The question that immediately springs to my mind is,"What are these people trying to prove?"

[Dawn HH]

Very interesting topic. I might even say---educational. Now, I have a piece of paper, (room or no room), that says that I can hang a lip lock onto Mickey any place, any time, anywhere. She has the same privilage afforded by the same piece of paper as I have. It is called a marriage license. Admittedly, of course, we would not carry things any farther in public beyond a kiss, or a hug, or a squeeze. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Guy N. Heels]

Very interesting topic. I might even say---educational. Now, I have a piece of paper, (room or no room), that says that I can hang a lip lock onto Mickey any place, any time, anywhere. She has the same privilage afforded by the same piece of paper as I have. It is called a marriage license. Admittedly, of course, we would not carry things any farther in public beyond a kiss, or a hug, or a squeeze.

Cheers---

Dawn HH

This strikes me as altogether strange. I thought you needed a license or permit to do something that was otherwise illegal. So in Pennsylvania it is unlawful for people to be married without first obtaining permission from the state to do so?

[dr1819]

[i can think of no time when America witnessed more public displays of affection between all sexes and races than on 9/11/01. People were simply doing their best to help one another and express both concern and affection.

I wouldn't call that affection. I would call it comforting and consoling.

This strikes me as altogether strange. I thought you needed a license or permit to do something that was otherwise illegal. So in Pennsylvania it is unlawful for people to be married without first obtaining permission from the state to do so?

I think this pretty much goes for all 50 states, last time I checked. There's such a thing in some states as "common law marriage," where if a couple co-habitates for more than x out of y days/months/years, the state will treat them as if they were married.

[Guy N. Heels]

I think this pretty much goes for all 50 states, last time I checked. There's such a thing in some states as "common law marriage," where if a couple co-habitates for more than x out of y days/months/years, the state will treat them as if they were married.

So God says it's okay for a man and a woman to get married but the governments of 50 states say it's illegal unless you first obtain a permit? Are we required to get a permit to be born as well?

[Shafted]

So God says it's okay for a man and a woman to get married but the governments of 50 states say it's illegal unless you firt obtain a permit? Are we required to get a permit to be born as well?

It's not that it is illegal to get married without a license, but the government won't recognise the marrage otherwise. For example the couple would be unable to file a joint tax return and reap addtional tax breaks afforded maried couples and their kids.

[Guy N. Heels]

...It's not that it is illegal to get married without a license, but the government won't recognise the marrage otherwise. For example the couple would be unable to file a joint tax return and reap addtional tax breaks afforded maried couples and their kids.

HUUUMMmmmm.

The only government I can recognize is one that obtains it's right to exist from a people who were granted their rights from a sovereign God and who have, in turn, delegated some of their rights to a government that is also accountable to that same sovereign God. Any other is pure tyranny! Therefore, all of my rights, including the right to choose my style of clothing, are god-given rights that are not bestowed by, or to be withdrawn at the caprice of a man-made government. My right to be or not be married is god-given and is NOT to be held hostage to some licensing fee or to be withdrawn by a government of man.

Governments, like clocks, are man-made and obtain their motion from men! Therefore it is governments that need men rather than men who need governments. Moreover, whenever governments become destructive of man's god-given rights, it is both the responsibility and the duty of men to abolish such government and to institute NEW government that is founded upon godly principles and which secures the god-given rights of the individual!

[Rockpup]

GNH: Fortunatly we live in a society where you can state that without fear of someone knocking down your door and arresting you as a threat to national security. I'm not a big fan of Bush, but when I hear protesters saying he's worse then Hitler I feel enraged that they would insult the memory of the millions of innocent people he butchered by attempting to draw a comparison to events in the last few years to what happend in the late 30's/early 40's. In Nazi Germany, not only would you be sent to the camps for being gay, but also for sympathising, and speaking out against the regime. I do not see that happening here by a long shot.

[Guy N. Heels]

GNH: Fortunatly we live in a society where you can state that without fear of someone knocking down your door and arresting you as a threat to national security...

YET!!!

[vector]

Re: permission to be born... We don't need permission to be born (at least not yet), just a document to ceretify birth!

[Guy N. Heels]

Re: permission to be born...

We don't need permission to be born (at least not yet), just a document to ceretify birth!

[dr1819]

I always thought it was a crock that allowing a premie to die was manslaughter/murder but aborting a much older fetus is legal, particularly when it's location (inside/outside the body) has nothing to with it's survivability - it's still 100% dependant upon one or more parents/caregivers the first several months of it's life just to survive, and for the first several years of it's life in order to thrive.

[Dawn HH]

Again---It is interesting, informative, and educational. Stirring the pot a bit really does spice up the conversation. What a great bunch of minds we have here on the Forum. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Guy N. Heels]

Again---It is interesting, informative, and educational. Stirring the pot a bit really does spice up the conversation. What a great bunch of minds we have here on the Forum.

Cheers---

Dawn HH

Thank you, Dawn. (Interestingly enough, my favorite English teacher was named Dawn.) I bow to your wisdom.

[dianeheel]

Why does one even have to say they are gay? Do we care what you do in the bedroom? I don't go around telling people I am straight, which those would perceive I do it with a man if I did say it! Time to get off the soap box on being gay and just live your life the way God intended, if this offends some, oh well, I have my opinion too. Dianeheel

[Guy N. Heels]

Why does one even have to say they are gay? Do we care what you do in the bedroom? I don't go around telling people I am straight, which those would perceive I do it with a man if I did say it!

Time to get off the soap box on being gay and just live your life the way God intended, if this offends some, oh well, I have my opinion too.

Dianeheel

Right you are! Most heterosexuals don't give 2 hoots in a high wind as to a person's sexual orientation unless there is some personal reason to do so.

Unfortunately, most homosexual people are either: 1] overly sensitive to their choice of lifestyle; and/or 2] busy trying to make some big deal out of their lifestyle choice and are therefore busy making much ado about a matter that is of relatively little interest to about 97% of the population. If yer homosexual - that's yer choice. I really don't approve, but hey - it's no skin off my nose either way. I'm not the One you'll have to give answer to.

[dianeheel]

Thank you, Guy N. Heels. Frankly, I'm sick to death of people telling me they are gay. I wish they'd get over their life style, quit pushing it on everyone else and just let it go! Nobody cares if you are gay unless you want a relationship, then it should be told. Other than that, don't ask and don't tell! Now I feel better..... Dianeheel

[RPMindy]

i live with this motto on this topic.. don't ask.. don't tell. i'm not asking.. don't tell me!!!!! and further more.. don't try to make like it either.. i'm not going to push you away from me because you're gay.. but don't make me have to like your lifestyle either.. i'm not making you like mines..... RPM

[dianeheel]

RPMindy, couldn't have said it better myself! You go! LOL

[micha]

GNH: Fortunatly we live in a society where you can state that without fear of someone knocking down your door and arresting you as a threat to national security.

I'm not a big fan of Bush, but when I hear protesters saying he's worse then Hitler I feel enraged that they would insult the memory of the millions of innocent people he butchered by attempting to draw a comparison to events in the last few years to what happend in the late 30's/early 40's.

In Nazi Germany, not only would you be sent to the camps for being gay, but also for sympathising, and speaking out against the regime. I do not see that happening here by a long shot.

JimC, I agree to you.

In my opinion G.W.Bush is one of the worst presidents of the USA. But he shouldn't be compared with Adolf Hitler. The Nazi terror in my country was definitely another category of despisement of mankind. Not to talk about the murder of several millions jews. A lot of gays died also in the concentration camps. Claiming that Bush is worse than Hitler means playing down the crimes of the Nazis.

Now back to the issue: for my feeling this forum is not homophobic - otherwise I wouldn't post here anymore. Many heterosexual guys are annoyed that they are always again put by simple minded people into the gay category. I'm also furious about these ridiculous stereotypes.

I don't care if 80 or 90 % of the members are heterosexual. The big majority of the guys here is definitely heterosexual and not homophobic. Where's the problem?!?

I don't like unnecessary lamentations. The socialdemocratic mayor of our capital Berlin said some years ago in his election campaign "I'm gay and that's good so". He won the elections. In the september of this year he was reelected. At least one million of heterosexuals were voting for him.

micha (*gay*)

[dianeheel]

Micha, well said. If guys want to wear heels, that is their perogative. Gay or not gay, this should not be an issue. Just as women like to wear men's clothing, does not mean they are lesbians. Sometimes I like the comfort of wearing jeans and flannel shirts because they are comfortable. I'm very straight, and I only say that because of the issues in this category, otherwise, I don't need to tell anyone anything. Great comment about Bush and comparing him to Hitler. I campaigned for President Bush and I'm proud that I assisted my country in helping to elect a new president, whether people like it or not. Pres. Bush is no Hitler. If anything, he has saved a lot of unborn children by passing the ban on partial birth abortion. You talk about a holocaust! This is one of the worst holocausts! Clinton pushed for PBA, Bush cleaned up the blood that was on Clinton's hands. Thanks! Dianeheel

[micha]

Micha, well said. If guys want to wear heels, that is their perogative. Gay or not gay, this should not be an issue. Just as women like to wear men's clothing, does not mean they are lesbians. Sometimes I like the comfort of wearing jeans and flannel shirts because they are comfortable. I'm very straight, and I only say that because of the issues in this category, otherwise, I don't need to tell anyone anything.

Great comment about Bush and comparing him to Hitler. I campaigned for President Bush and I'm proud that I assisted my country in helping to elect a new president, whether people like it or not.

Pres. Bush is no Hitler. If anything, he has saved a lot of unborn children by passing the ban on partial birth abortion. You talk about a holocaust! This is one of the worst holocausts! Clinton pushed for PBA, Bush cleaned up the blood that was on Clinton's hands.

Thanks!

Dianeheel

Hi Dianaheel,

here our convictions are dividing. Abortions aren't never the best solution. But if a woman is in social emergency it's in my opinion acceptable. No conservative politician has the right to condemn this woman. He should better care for a supporting politic. But social ideas have gone lost in our globalized capitalism. Nobody can raise up a children without a job and a monthly income of less then 500 dollars. GWB is obviously incable to understand these problems. His clan is because of his collaboration with saudi arabian oil sheiks endless rich. He doesn't need to care for his income. One million more or less is not a real problem for him.

Our politicians are living far away from reality and have lost any sincerity. That's true for your country as for mine. The socialdemocratic(!) ex-chancellor Schroeder has now got a million job from the russian Gazprom. As a member of the social democratic party he is simply a characterless pig. Naturally he would never dare to accuse me because of insult. By the way: the biggest conservative hardliner Kanther of my home country Hessia is now entering his third court procedure because of corruption. How can you trust in your president Bush? May be that he has no Monica, but thats not enough for being a trustworthy president. He is lying permanently. No good condition for defending our society against fanatic muslims ....

micha (*having lost any respect for the most politicians*)

[Guy N. Heels]

...Our politicians are living far away from reality and have lost any sincerity. That's true for your country as for mine. ...How can you trust in your president Bush? May be that he has no Monica, but thats not enough for being a trustworthy president. He is lying permanently.

micha (*having lost any respect for the most politicians*)

AHEM... This thread is trying to morph into a political rant.

However, I want to thank you, Micha, for providing us with the European disenchantment with our politicians. Except for your location, your views very much reflect my own. QUESTION: How do you know when a politician is lying to you? Answer: When you see his mouth moving!

On the other hand, it has been observed that in a democratic society, we may not get the leaders we need but we get the ones we deserve. After all, we voted for them. And I couldn't agree with you more about our politicians having lost touch with the people (and in some cases, with reality)!

But having said all of that, I do not believe that this board is homophobic (whatever that means). The clothing (or shoes) one chooses to wear reflects fashion. The way one chooses to live (including sexual preferances) reflects lifestyle.

[micha]

AHEM... This thread is trying to morph into a political rant.

However, I want to thank you, Micha, for providing us with the European disenchantment with our politicians. Except for your location, your views very much reflect my own. QUESTION: How do you know when a politician is lying to you? Answer: When you see his mouth moving!

On the other hand, it has been observed that in a democratic society, we may not get the leaders we need but we get the ones we deserve. After all, we voted for them. And I couldn't agree with you more about our politicians having lost touch with the people (and in some cases, with reality)!

But having said all of that, I do not believe that this board is homophobic (whatever that means). The clothing (or shoes) one chooses to wear reflects fashion. The way one chooses to live (including sexual preferances) reflects lifestyle.

Hi, Guy in heels,

rereading my last answer it seems also to me "off topic". G.W.Bush discussions are belonging into another thread. Sorry, but I was enerved about Dianaheel's praising of Bush as saviour of the innocent unborn children. Abortian is a difficult theme. I don't want to discuss it here. But we could continue the discussion under "General non shoe discussion". I have just started there a new thread "Who of you is still trusting your politicians?"

nice greetings

micha

Moderator Comment: Thank you for moving this back on track!

[dr1819]

But to the vast majority of society (atleast in the USA), a man exhibiting any female trait (from manerisms, emotions, to clothing/heels) indicates homosexuality. In fairness, if you walked into a bar and saw a woman with short hair wearing a flannel shirt, jeans, and hiker boots, alot of people would think she was a lesbian. It is sterotypical and judgemental without getting to know the person, but society as a whole tends to do this.

Scotty

I would think she's from Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire...

When a girl I've dated discovered I wore heels, the first questions she asked me was, "have you ever had any relations with another man?" The usual string of questions about being gay, bi, etc., so I can understand why those who're straight tend to be a little sensitive about being labeled as gay just because they enjoy wearing heels, skirts, or other clothing normally designed for and worn by women.

[DandyDude]

I would think she's from Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire...

When a girl I've dated discovered I wore heels, the first questions she asked me was, "have you ever had any relations with another man?" The usual string of questions about being gay, bi, etc., so I can understand why those who're straight tend to be a little sensitive about being labeled as gay just because they enjoy wearing heels, skirts, or other clothing normally designed for and worn by women.

It wasn't that long ago, or maybe it was, that a man who wore heels was considered a bit daring. That alone made him more attractive to women. I think all the talk about "transgender," a system of classification that is highly oppressive to anyone who doesn't fit the narrow hip hop (Down-Low) definition of masculinity, has pretty much queered, no pun intended, the chances of heel wearing returning to its previous state of being a sort of daring thing that gets women.

When I started wearing heels, I got more attention from hotter girls, I was a boy myself, and that sort of reinforced it with me.

I don't think male heel wearing will ever become even the left-field fashion it was before, too much bogus masculinity going on and too many attempts by the gender crowd and their psych allies to label everything a mental illness and then shove it into the little "transgender" box.