Shyheels Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) What is this barter era you speak of? Coinage has been around for nearly three thousand of years - back to the Phrygians and Lydians, about 600BC I am aware that Japan and South Korea (And we might add North as well) are the biggest traders n Bitcoin. I don’t read Japanese financial papers, but all the news reports of Bitcoin or crypto that I do read, on both sides of the Atlantic, invariably list it’s value in USD. The point is, it’s value is measured against real, government backed currencies because ultimately that defines its worth. The people who have made their killings in this bubble become millionaires - in US dollars and it is to achieve these large amounts of dollars people dabble in crypto. Edited January 25, 2018 by Shyheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 1/25/2018 at 2:24 PM, Shyheels said: What is this barter era you speak of? Coinage has been around for nearly three thousand of years - back to the Phrygians and Lydians, about 600BC I am aware that Japan and South Korea (And we might add North as well) are the biggest traders n Bitcoin. I don’t read Japanese financial papers, but all the news reports of Bitcoin or crypto that I do read, on both sides of the Atlantic, invariably list it’s value in USD. The point is, it’s value is measured against real, government backed currencies because ultimately that defines its worth. The people who have made their killings in this bubble become millionaires - in US dollars and it is to achieve these large amounts of dollars people dabble in crypto. In all honesty, bitcoin has household brand recognition because it was the first mover in the crypto space. To be fair, besides other strong blockchain companies like ICON (mentioned above), perhaps look into a blockchain backed crypto company like VeChain: https://twitter.com/vechainofficial As of today, VeChain has established partnerships with PricewaterhouseCoopers, DNV GL, Renault Group, KUEHNE+NAGEL, D.I.G., China Unicom, etc., and accumulated extensive experience in an ever expanding list of industries including pharmaceuticals, liquor, auto, luxury goods, retail, logistics, supply chain, food and cold storage and more. VeChain creates supply chain transparency (among other things) by using RFID, NFC, QR Codes on items from "farm to fork" across multiple industries. And that's just one application of VeChain. For some reason, no one ever argued my points about all the existing retailers that take crypto for payment. As token backed IOU currency based economies didn't evolve overnight, neither will crypto. Rome wasn't built in a night. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Those retailers that accept (or accepted) Bitcoin no doubt found it worth their while to do so when it was on an upward spike - given the time lag between transaction and clearance, they could only gain by it. Those who continue to accept it these past few weeks will have found they were conducting a dramatic and unintended post-Christmas sale with everything fifty per cent off. One suspects there will be some hard thinking and perhaps less eagerness until it is determined exactly what this is - and isn't. I can't imagine the magic spiriting away of $500 million with of crypto in Japan this week will help sooth the market either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 CoinCheck, the Japanese exchange will actually refund owners: http://cryptobible.io/coincheck-will-refund-owners-425-million/ Additionally 500M was hacked (this is about 6% of XEM's total supply. This 500M is being tracked actively and exchanges have been notified not to accept deposits made from these hacked funds. All in all this means supply has gone down, demand has gone up (Plus NEM also got a lot of media coverage and attention), so what do prices do? They go up. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 So in the world of crypto theft on a massive scale has its upside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Depends on if you define innovation with the glass half full or glass half empty. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Well, that would certainly be looking on the bright side! I can understand anyone with money sunk into this stuff wanting to cheer on the market, but I don't think this crypto bubble has all that much more time to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 The bubble has just begun. Experts are predicting the Goldman Sachs crypto trading desk to open up a flood of .5-.8 trillion into crypto as early as April 2d-July 2018. Other Wall Street money will follow, then Main Street money. Also, zoom out on the tech bubble of 2000, and the bubble is barely visible on a line graph chart. Keeping the same context, by 2036 the crypto bubble of 2017-2019 will be barely visible. Consumptive Value coins like ICON, VET (now called VEN), and even new ones (possibly Telegram, who knows really?) will probably still exist though. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heelster Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Back to the original discussion - - Blockchain technology / distributed Ledger. As some folks may recall, I'm a bit supporter of Open Source / Linux projects. I received the following in an email earlier today, and followed / browsed around a bit. I will go in-depth when I have nothing better to do. (March 1st for a few weeks) https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blockchain-technology-davos-daily-life-impact/ https://www.hyperledger.org/ From my viewpoint, If the opensource code folks are this far into it, then I can't see anything but positive outcomes for the Blockchain Technology. The first article is light / general public reading. The second link is aimed for the digital geeks and IT guys, worth looking at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) I can certainly appreciate that the Open Source people have done some wonderful things, but they are not economists nor are they in control of their creations. Alfred Nobel was very clever to create powerful explosives and it is quite correct to point out that these explosives allowed some marvellous engineering feats to take place - notably the Gotthard Tunnel in Switzerland, which was, I believe, the first major construction project to use it. But of course there were other, far less constructive uses for high explosives - we read of them daily - and nowadays his legacy has been rather tarnished by them. Bitcoin and crypto may well have all sorts of technically wonderful and clever attributes, but it will only ever be as good as humanity allows and given human nature, and its ability to find and exploit some of crypto less attractive and indeed less logical aspects (inherent value) I cannot see this being a success. Nobel's invention at least had simplicity to recommend it: spark...boom! Edited January 30, 2018 by Shyheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Shyheels--do you even leave your house? With human nature as it is, with misuse of guns and addiction to smart phone dopamine hits and speeding electric cars, it's risky to even still be alive (poking good fun here). Importantly, everyone regardless of their attitude to innovation has a place in society. Laggards prefer to preserve tradition and the past. So there is value in that. Early Adopters prefer innovation but represent a small portion of greater society, as evidenced in our discussion here. The tension is innovation vs. traditionalism. Heelster--thanks for sharing. I checked out the Hyperledger mission statement. Seems it's one initiative that is pro-blockchain without use of crypto. I'd say that's a good thing towards blockchain uptake overall. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Oh, I get out every now and then. Lower the drawbridge and, rosary clasped to my chest, I sally forth among ye heathens. Occasionally I even raise the visor on my helmet. Edited January 30, 2018 by Shyheels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 haha! Your nickname is now "Fred Flintstone". And mine will be "George Jetson". Perfect analogy. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heelster Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, kneehighs said: Seems it's one initiative that is pro-blockchain without use of crypto. I'd say that's a good thing towards blockchain uptake overall. That's what I saw too. I'm still on the sidelines with the Crypto Currency, but the blockchain as a transactional function does have me pondering the possibilities. Some soon to be graduates in Computer Science do not seem to think the security implied is there yet, and as one student mentioned, "nothing is hack proof" but the concept does merit further research. PS - - Nvidia is making a killing in the graphics card business. So many people are trying to mine the crypto currencies, it's putting a huge strain on the graphics card supply. The prices for cards are going to insane levels. Maybe the best bet is to invest in Invidia for awhile as I doubt they will be losing money for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 hours ago, kneehighs said: haha! Your nickname is now "Fred Flintstone". And mine will be "George Jetson". Perfect analogy. How very apt! You will not be surprised to learn that as a child I very much preferred The Flinstones to The Jetsons! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at9 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 hours ago, Heelster said: That's what I saw too. I'm still on the sidelines with the Crypto Currency, but the blockchain as a transactional function does have me pondering the possibilities. Some soon to be graduates in Computer Science do not seem to think the security implied is there yet, and as one student mentioned, "nothing is hack proof" but the concept does merit further research. PS - - Nvidia is making a killing in the graphics card business. So many people are trying to mine the crypto currencies, it's putting a huge strain on the graphics card supply. The prices for cards are going to insane levels. Maybe the best bet is to invest in Invidia for awhile as I doubt they will be losing money for some time to come. In a goldrush, it's best to be the guy selling shovels:) Another worry is that there's some evidence that mining of Bitcoin is now concentrated in the hands of a very few people or organisations. This gives them the potential to control the "currency" in a way that's a lot less accountable than fiat currencies are controlled by govenments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) Well the fact that over $500 million worth of crypto was hacked and stolen this week would indeed suggest that the security isn't really there yet... And I see Facebook has banned all ads for crypto currencies because of all the scams that are out there. Edited January 31, 2018 by Shyheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganiwish Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm with Shyheels. The Flintstones were 'the modern stone age family', the Jetsons just accepted any tosh that was sold them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yabba Dabba Dooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganiwish Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Wi-ilmaaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) And their sabre-toothed tiger hopping through the window and leaving Fred outside pounding on the door yelling Will-ma as the closing credits rolled. A friend of mine knew Wilma - or rather the woman who voiced her in the cartoon, Yes, much better than the buttoned-down Jetsons. Edited February 1, 2018 by Shyheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Shyheels said: Well the fact that over $500 million worth of crypto was hacked and stolen this week would indeed suggest that the security isn't really there yet... And I see Facebook has banned all ads for crypto currencies because of all the scams that are out there. Same point you brought up earlier. CoinCheck, the Japanese exchange will actually refund owners: http://cryptobible.io/coincheck-will-refund-owners-425-million. Additionally 500M was hacked (this is about 6% of XEM's total supply. This 500M is being tracked actively and exchanges have been notified not to accept deposits made from these hacked funds. The emotional response to the FB ban is fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). These are Shyheels favorite repetitive points. The logic behind Facebook avoiding future problems with scam ICO ads makes sense though. It's good for the crypto ecosystem. Some people just don't have the psychological mindset to push through obstacles common in early innovation. Rome wasn't built in a day. Edited February 1, 2018 by kneehighs Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 1/30/2018 at 4:40 PM, Heelster said: That's what I saw too. I'm still on the sidelines with the Crypto Currency, but the blockchain as a transactional function does have me pondering the possibilities. Some soon to be graduates in Computer Science do not seem to think the security implied is there yet, and as one student mentioned, "nothing is hack proof" but the concept does merit further research. PS - - Nvidia is making a killing in the graphics card business. So many people are trying to mine the crypto currencies, it's putting a huge strain on the graphics card supply. The prices for cards are going to insane levels. Maybe the best bet is to invest in Invidia for awhile as I doubt they will be losing money for some time to come. Samsung is getting into the Graphics Card Business too. NVDA has a nice upward slope from 2016-now. They've been exploiting the need for faster processors for VR. Maybe after further research it's something worth putting money into. As always DYOR applies. For now I've parked some of my crypto into coins with consumptive value: ICON, VEN, XLM...some BTC (mostly to spend and impress dates with at dinner)..there are others in there too. In the meantime Robinhood has over 1 million eager investors in it's crypto app, Square Cash with 50 million users just released it's FIAT to BTC buying/selling within it's app today. And Goldman Sachs is opening up it's Crypto Trading Desk somewhere between April 2-July. Hello institutional money. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Optimism is a wonderful trait but as with anything, too much can be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 1/31/2018 at 2:18 AM, at9 said: In a goldrush, it's best to be the guy selling shovels:) Another worry is that there's some evidence that mining of Bitcoin is now concentrated in the hands of a very few people or organisations. This gives them the potential to control the "currency" in a way that's a lot less accountable than fiat currencies are controlled by govenments. There are other equally decentralized consensus methods that don't require Fred Flintstone Proof of Work. Such as Delegated Proof of Stake, which doesn't require mining: https://hackernoon.com/explain-delegated-proof-of-stake-like-im-5-888b2a74897d Just now, Shyheels said: Optimism is a wonderful trait but as with anything, too much can be a bad thing. Pessimism is also a wonderful trait but as with anything, too much can be a bad thing Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) These are all abstractions though and abstractions are prone to manipulation. A pessimist is an optimist who has been given fuller information. Edited February 1, 2018 by Shyheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyheels Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Still feeling bullish? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/02/bitcoin-biggest-bubble-in-history-says-economist-who-predicted-2008-crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphax Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I doubt that BTC will fall all the way to zero, as the economist in the Guardian article predicts. As I said before, it does have value as the most widely accepted means of exchange for those who wish to bypass their governments' regulations and economic controls, whether that means buying drugs and other illegal goods and services, or moving wealth out of a tightly regulated financial system *coughChinacough* And that's a valuable quality to those who need it. BTC's true value will eventually be determined by the value of those markets, which is no small sum. Its value will continue to change: For example, if China manages to clamp down on every single fraction of a BTC held by its citizens, then that segment of the market disappears and the overall value of the market goes down. But in my example, the market still has value because others still have need for BTC such as electronic black markets (e.g. Silk Road's legion of successors) and Venezuelan food buyers and others I can't think of. And the market's size could increase with unexpected events, let's say the United States' democracy fails and it becomes a fascist dictatorship, then the oppressed segment of its citizens may want to join the market for BTC to move their wealth out of the country along with their persons. So it's not falling to zero in the forseeable future, although I have no idea where it will end up after the casual speculators leave the bitcoin/crypto markets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphax Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 A bunch of crypto-millionaires/billionaires are planning their Crypto Utopia in Puerto Rico. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/technology/cryptocurrency-puerto-rico.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Shyheels said: Still feeling bullish? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/02/bitcoin-biggest-bubble-in-history-says-economist-who-predicted-2008-crash Still feeling bullish? Key word there is feelings. My investment in crypto is backed by virtually zero feeling. Honestly, I laugh about the dip right now. I'm in agreement with alphax's points. The article which I read in it'e entirety is pure FUD. Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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