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meganiwish

Je Suis Charlie

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I think the fact that we are barely a week into 2015 and the centenary of the event being referred is so fresh in so many minds, been the subject of so many books and documentaries and commemorations extending right up to the last few weeks, a little slack - poetic license if you will - can be cut here.    

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Might also help some of us are not in England, and even in America we do not get taught all of our own history. For example, I was out of school before I learned we put Japanese descended Americans into concentration camps for WW2. 

 

If you don't want to enlighten us, then forgive us for ignoring this thread.

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Might also help some of us are not in England, and even in America we do not get taught all of our own history. For example, I was out of school before I learned we put Japanese descended Americans into concentration camps for WW2. 

 

If you don't want to enlighten us, then forgive us for ignoring this thread.

I figured this might have been about those cartoonists getting wacked by muslims. Im probably wrong though. The message was in french, me no espeekeey. ;)

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I hold my hands up, Rockpup, and admit to being Eurocentric in the original post.  My point was that an act of solidarity, if not carefully handled, can lead to polarisation if the conditions exist.  I drew the analogy with 1914 not because I think that another world war is likely, but because it showed how a small act can set in motion events that couldn't be foreseen.  Europe was polarised in 1914 and it took just one man to spark what killed 17 million people.  It would be wrong if 'Je suis Charlie' came to mean 'I'm not Muslim', and I found scenes of a crowd chanting it disquieting.

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I do not think that Je Suis Charlie means, or will come to mean, any such thing or be in any way polarising. 

 

As for the reference to 1914, it was the start of World War I - a fairly notable 20th century event.

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It would be wrong if 'Je suis Charlie' came to mean 'I'm not Muslim', and I found scenes of a crowd chanting it disquieting.

As being someone whom was involved in the First Gulf War, Im quite PROUD to say Im not a muslim. Im proud to say I believe women should be as equals to every other human being. Im PROUD to say I support others freedoms of speech and to be able to associate with whomever they wish. Im proud to say I loves me some BBQ pork ribs and Porkchops, a pound of greasy bacon with my breakfast to start the day off!

Folks in Europe need to take a stand. While Europeans are dying off, Muslims are breeding quicker then your own. If people see reality for what it is, look at whats going on, whos hijacking planes, whos wacking cartoonists, whos beheading people and being filmed for their TV shows doing it, whos calling for the deaths ( and now making good on it ) for some cartoons or even an article they dont agree with?

I'm ' mean ' or frowned upon because I speak the truth that everyone already knows.

Its SAD when a French cop has to beg and plead for his life only to be gunned down like a varmit.

People can have all the rallies they want and wave all kinds of banners in the air, but its not going to prevent them from doing to you as *they* please.

As a guy who wishes freedom for all, there can be no ' peace ' until a certain theology is held accountable.

I know what the solution to the problem is. Its not ' correct ' enough for the masses though.

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As being someone whom was involved in the First Gulf War, Im quite PROUD to say Im not a muslim. Im proud to say I believe women should be as equals to every other human being. Im PROUD to say I support others freedoms of speech and to be able to associate with whomever they wish. Im proud to say I loves me some BBQ pork ribs and Porkchops, a pound of greasy bacon with my breakfast to start the day off!

Folks in Europe need to take a stand. While Europeans are dying off, Muslims are breeding quicker then your own. If people see reality for what it is, look at whats going on, whos hijacking planes, whos wacking cartoonists, whos beheading people and being filmed for their TV shows doing it, whos calling for the deaths ( and now making good on it ) for some cartoons or even an article they dont agree with?

I'm ' mean ' or frowned upon because I speak the truth that everyone already knows.

Its SAD when a French cop has to beg and plead for his life only to be gunned down like a varmit.

People can have all the rallies they want and wave all kinds of banners in the air, but its not going to prevent them from doing to you as *they* please.

As a guy who wishes freedom for all, there can be no ' peace ' until a certain theology is held accountable.

I know what the solution to the problem is. Its not ' correct ' enough for the masses though.

It begs the question, when is enough going to be enough?

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ILK, aren't you painting Muslims with a rather broad brush? Any group, whether it's religion, politics, gender, color, interest, hobby, class or anything else has its share of fundamentalists. It's the people on the fringe that generally make the news and you can't necessarily lump everyone together and make inferences like "all xxxx are yyyy."

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ILK, aren't you painting Muslims with a rather broad brush? Any group, whether it's religion, politics, gender, color, interest, hobby, class or anything else has its share of fundamentalists. It's the people on the fringe that generally make the news and you can't necessarily lump everyone together and make inferences like "all xxxx are yyyy."

True, but only Muslim fundamentalist are beheading people and other atrocities.

 

So I would say something must be "fundamentally" wrong with that religion.

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We do have to be a bit careful though. The Crusades and the Spanish inquisition are not exactly bright spots in our own history.

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Crusades and Spanish Inquisition... Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with Catholicism.

How much damage has been done by Christian fringe groups? Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with Christianity.

Much danger is there in finger pointing...

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Read the Koran. The difference here is that Christian sects weren't necessarily following their religion when these acts were committed. Big mistake on their part for it set the stage for what we are seeing now. Muslims committing these deplorable acts today in what we deem a civilized society are however following the teachings of their faith.

 

Read the Koran and the Bible and it becomes clear that Islam is a religion based on vengeance based on loss of birthright. Look at the sons of Abraham Ishmael and Issac.

 

Yes I, feel that Ismael and his mother Hager were wronged but was it by God or Sarah?

 

Think about it.

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The Crusades and the Inquisition were rather a long time ago.

 

Pope Francis and Torquemada or Pope Urban II have very little in common

 

Christian fringe groups can be deeply unpleasant, no doubt, but they are not causing anything like the problems in the world today than those being caused by radicalised Islam. Nowhere near it. Not even in the same ball park. Not even the same game. 

 

This is not to say there is something fundamentally wrong with Islam. There isn't. Throughout history this has been a very tolerant and noble faith. A genuine follower of Islam, a genuine Christian, a genuine Jew...they are all going to be very decent people, none of whom deserve to be linked with the radical fruitcake minority.

 

There is something very wrong however with the radicalised form of Islam, and the way it is being used - like no other religion at the moment - by vicious, unscrupulous people to manipulate others for their own political ends. Videoed beheadings and acts of street terrorism, done in the name of Islam, are dragging the name and reputation of a very decent religion through the mud, as many Islamic leaders are coming to realise. Ultimately it will be down to them to take the lead and regain the moral high ground. 

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First you need to stop talking about religion.  Just because someone does something 'in the name of' a religion means nothing more than that they've chosen an excuse.  Actually, the Inquisition isn't ancient history.  The Inquisition was only ended in the 19th century.  Goya's favourite model was a victim of the Inquisition. Protestantism has a distinguished history of atrocity.  Go and mention Cromwell in Ireland. 

 

So, Shyheels, you think polarisation isn't a danger?  See above. 

 

It's not a religious issue, and it won't be solved by treating it as such, and I won't get involved in a religious discussion.  This is much simpler. Murder is wrong, and we must oppose it without taking sides.

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No, I do not think the Je Suis Charlie thing is polarising in the least - unless the 'us' and 'them' you refer to are terrorists who would silence debate/satire/discussion and those of us who would protect those rights. 

 

I too am uninterested in a theological discussion, but because so many of the atrocities being committed now, all over the world, are being done in the name of a corrupted and radicalised vision of Islam, it is impossible to leave religion wholly out of the discussion. One cannot look at the events in Paris as simply street crime. There is a much broader picture there and that needs to be addressed

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