The drama of the gifted child: the roots of childhood on adulthood heeling

[Guest]

ilikekicks

On the nail and dead centre "THIS IS ME" or at least as we understand ourselves at this time, we have evolved to this point and will continue, at any point in our lives that statement is true just how true is how we can really assess ourselves accurately, maturity and understanding comes with age be it 20 or 60!

This is me is echoed across the forum less strongly but it there in the girls pages and as clear.

I want to say more but time is slipping towards of to work time but just a quick round up it seem that events or non events in our childhoods have created our route, I feel love (lack of) and loneness contributed the jealousy of my sister, few friends and lack of true communication caused me to withdraw, I'd already found the HH fantasy and early puberty cross dressed, In my way I was looking for my "lover" certainly the wrong title for that age but it was the years of confusion and experimentation. I'm sure many may identify with that hormone screw up.

Sorry for now time to go, pt 2 later

Al

[Guest]

Wow,- able to continue without having to jump other posts, Pt2 Many of us have in some way paralleled each others events, the curiosity, the challenge etc and whatever the effect be it sexual or not, have returned trying other styles, heights. I wonder how many guys have gone though the curiosity or been set a challenge and never returned because it was just not for them be it social, too damn hard or inconvenient? Certainly it seems that many of us are good with our hands whilst we do maintain our cars like Joe average, we also have a sense of materials be it metals or fabrics, artwork or AV media working to the highest or most intricate possible standard often being critical of ourselves and our minor flaws. Is it we seek elegance in our lifestyles? Is it we have a higher fem gene count that give us that desire? We certainly don't all look weedy and thin, in fact we have a very strong spread of body shapes, Jonnyheel for example, certainly is not what would be expected by standards of the press. If I was to meet him in a dark alley he would scare the s**t out of me, I would be looking for a row of Harleys and expecting colours to be worn! He has commented on how he looks and gets no flack due to his fitness. My youngest stepdaughter has 2 gay friends (together) 16 and 17, one is bigger build and more outgoing, loud and a bully (A), the other is slight in build but still tall, personality wise he's the blond bimbo (. I have said that they are into cosplay way back, (A) likes heels and has a costume with heels (3") but can't walk in them. ( was dressed up in one of the girls Prom dresses (3 girls thought it would be fun) he just stood there absolutely frozen with fear, yet if that had been preplanned I would have expected the opposite. I think that this gives us another twist of gene mix up? On a lighter note to finish something I have noticed, done a few weddings over the last couple of years and it concerns trousers(pants) often crumpled and baggy at the shoe, looks untidy? does it happen with heels? Nope and looks "finished" so am I for now. Al

[kneehighs]

This is such a serious issue that I'm not seasoned at dealing with, both in myself and others, so my apologies for what may seem like a tardy response. It takes deep, careful thought to construct responses for what is such a sensitive and powerful issue.

...I really am not sure where the roots of this are for me. I had always thought it was the fact that my parents divorced when I was young, and I was raised by two older sisters and my mother, and having an almost non-existent relationship with my father until I was an adult.

First off, I want to thank you for your honest participation in this thread. Your honesty with yourself is a virtue!

Interesting. Presumably, you didn't have a stereotypical male role model then to teach you how to deal with life as a child? Maybe in a sense, you associated femine warmth and comfort at the most primitive levels of your subconscious with coping with life then?

That might have a lot to do with it, but I think I also was rather insecure as a child, I had somewhat low self esteem when it came to social interaction. I was rather uncomfortable in my own skin, and I guess I felt that I was just different from others. I was very skinny, non-athletic, didn't feel all that attractive, and my social life was often just awkward.

You know the effect of isolation is to feel abandoned? Everyone's first sense of abandonment is experienced at birth, when the umbilical cord is cut. That's why some doctors administer oxytocin (the love drug) to mothers right at the moment in time before the mother cuddles the newborn infant. They understand the infants need to be empathized with. Later, children fear abandonment, which later translates into Peer Pressure challenges. Unfortunately, for many of us, when we wear heels, it can subconsciously reignite old unresolved feelings from the past. We not be conscious of those feelings, but they are there.

My sisters on the other hand seemed very happy, well adjusted socially, and just seemed so much more confident in life. I have always loved girls/women growing up, always had more female friends, and just felt more comfortable being "friends" with girls, but I didn't have that many "girlfriends" growing up.

That's awesome! Women are amazing and I love them with all my heart. They have their flaws just like I do and I don't put any of them on a pedestal, but they are still amazing!! Emotional geniuses if you ask me.

However, I do like having certain small feminine elements integrated into my daily life and wardrobe, which often means wearing high heel shoes (for me heels are incredibly sexy and one of the finest expressions of femininity). I guess it is a comfort feeling and somehow it gives me confidence and just feels right to me. As I get older, I have become more comfortable in my skin, and am proud of the fact that I am not conforming to what everyone else is doing.

My guess is that association of comfort and confidence comes from watching your sisters and mother from youth. Good for you!

I am now married and have kids, and I'm really happy to be the way I am. I feel more confident socially than I ever have in my life, but it sure took me a long time to get here. lol

You are also very amazing and I love your honesty!

Thanks for your contribution.

[SleekHeels]

A couple of really good points jumped out at me:

1) "You know the effect of isolation is to feel abandoned" - in my childhood experience at least, wearing heels gave me a connection with myself in the sense of breaking down the isolation from my own inner self-esteem that was otherwise missing. But outwardly I was doing something which isolated me from normal social expectations... on the one hand this made me feel more withdrawn but on the other hand developed a kind of emotional self-sufficiency (which in turn is sometimes a protective shell, sometimes a barrier to reaching out or letting people close).

2) "am proud of the fact that I am not conforming to what everyone else is doing" - I think that's such a key part of coming to terms with it, and ties back to what was also said much earlier about seeking (parental) approval as a child. We start out feeling shame for not conforming to what everyone else is doing because fitting in seems such a definitive factor in childhood. I think I carried that into my adult life too, feeling that my heel-wearing would be letting down my (female) partner. It's such an important turning point to turn that shame into pride, which for me was all about seeing heels as an expression of positive aspects (e.g. an expression of sensitivity and loyalty to my partner), qualities which didn't feature in a masculine role-model.

As I child I always felt like I needed to keep my heels in a box (I mean mentally) to prevent them somehow contaminating the rest of my life, but later I realised it was more healthy to integrate it wholeheartedly into my life, get rid of the negative aspects but keep and value the positive aspects instead of being in denial about them.

Thanks for keeping this thread going... it's not a flash-in-the-pan kind of topic, and everyone's carefully considered comments are always insightful and thought-provoking. It was unthinkable to come across discussions like this back when I was growing up, goodness knows what effect that might have had.

[kneehighs]

I'm going to go back to the individual posts here as time permits. But one thing I wanted to make clear is the answer to the question, "Why go back to your childhood?" Because there is strength in vulnerability. There is strength in acknowledging and experiencing your vulnerability, even as it shatters past your social personae and rocks you to your core. The truth of the matter is society conditions everyone to avoid emotions of vulnerability. Being vulnerable is considered being weak. The catch is that you can't selectively numb emotion. You can't weed out shame or abandonment or rejection without ALSO weeding out joy, happiness, and gratitude. By accepting societies programming to avoid stereotyped feelings of weakness, we in effect numb ourselves to our true inner cores. Being alive doesn't mean being strictly positive, it means being allowing yourself to experience the whole range of human emotions. For those of you that heel, maybe that means allowing yourself to experience: --the fear of being watched, or judged by others --experience your self-consciousness or anxiety about wearing heels --experience your fear that you will be embarrassed --experience the fear that others will notice your nervousness --be knowledgeable about your pounding heart --be knowledgeable about your trembling or shaking There is nothing wrong with feeling any of the above. I'm not advocating prolonged duration of experiencing these emotions without constructive solution oriented action, but advocating being radically honest with yourself. It takes courage to be vulnerable to experience your feelings of shame, weakness, and helplessness. It takes courage to know you will always be imperfect. The strength that lies in accepting yourself as imperfect is that it creates compassion for yourself, which you are then able to share with others. And in that authenticity of letting go of who you think you should be to be who you really are lies the authenticity that will help you feel worthy within yourself (not just with wearing heels) but also truly connect with others at a deeper level. This is the goal. To recognize your imperfect childhood. To recognize your currently imperfect coping mechanisms. To accept your imperfection. For those of you who have kids, to look at them and say, "you are imperfect. You are wired for struggle. But you are still worthy of love and belonging" YOU ARE ENOUGH. Back to work for me.

[Marion]

(...)

I find that my female side has all the creative juices, and my male side has a good mechanical aptitude. The mix of those two, by the way, makes a good computer programmer. I do notice that the balance changes from time to time. The female side wants to be noticed, and the male side would rather blend into the world and evaporate when he dies without leaving a trace. My female side sketches at the art museum, and my male side fixes the brakes on my car. Working together, they write very good computer code.

I have not experienced the intense emotional experience that Kneehighs writes about, rather a late discovery that there are really two (at least) forces in me that are in constant combat over how I want to present myself either in heels and on extreme days a skirt or just a regular guy. The days that the heels side wins, I write a post, when the regular guy wins, I don’t post anything (maybe I should to balance things out).

(...)

That's it ! Your analysis works very well to explain (and justify, if needed) my feelings too ! Thanks for that !

[crotchboots-m]

i understand the angst involved in trying to understand why one has a fetish. but at some point,u have to get over it and just embrace it for what it is and have fun with it. life is short and there are enough people out there willing to beat up on you without joining in yourself. or you can look at it this way...if u didnt like to wear heels,how interesting would your life be without them? hmmm...sounds like a good start for a new thread.

[Majo]

Very interesting Majo, thanks for sticking to the topic and for your openess regarding your upbringing.

I'm curious where you were at in your feelings regarding yourself wearing heels when you and your wife decided you'd not wear them in front of your kids--given that you had what could be considered the advantage of an unreactive mother in your childhood.

Kneehighs,

Sorry for my delay in answering. I've been awfully busy and your concern required some consideration.

I had a very accepting atmosphere at home, but that was not that way on the outside -school, club, etc.-. I had some trouble fitting in -I'm dyslexic, and have a very high IQ and the issues associated with them- which gave quite a dose of frustration; so, when it came to the kids, I gave her the benefit of doubt regarding some issues that might have been "weird" for the rest of their buddies: children tend to copy what their parents do. They are something like their parents subconscious.

Any way, I travel a lot so that is my exhaust valve regarding clothing and footwear. Society, on the other hand, is not the same today as it was 22 year ago. I feel that, I we were in the same crossroad now, our decision would be different and probably I'll be wearing 2" o 3" heels regularly.

[kneehighs]

i understand the angst involved in trying to understand why one has a fetish. but at some point,u have to get over it and just embrace it for what it is and have fun with it. life is short and there are enough people out there willing to beat up on you without joining in yourself. or you can look at it this way...if u didnt like to wear heels,how interesting would your life be without them? hmmm...sounds like a good start for a new thread.

No one ever advocated infinite rumination, "chewing the cud" and staying in one spot. You want to move on to greener pastures.

When you are able to see the whole truth behind your emotional past and heal the pain behind it as a self actualizing adult, you are better empowered to respond to future events, not react to them as a result of your past. While you may not be able to change the facts of the past, you can change the way you relate to them.

Kneehighs,

Sorry for my delay in answering. I've been awfully busy and your concern required some consideration.

I had a very accepting atmosphere at home, but that was not that way on the outside -school, club, etc.-. I had some trouble fitting in -I'm dyslexic, and have a very high IQ and the issues associated with them- which gave quite a dose of frustration; so, when it came to the kids, I gave her the benefit of doubt regarding some issues that might have been "weird" for the rest of their buddies: children tend to copy what their parents do. They are something like their parents subconscious.

Any way, I travel a lot so that is my exhaust valve regarding clothing and footwear. Society, on the other hand, is not the same today as it was 22 year ago. I feel that, I we were in the same crossroad now, our decision would be different and probably I'll be wearing 2" o 3" heels regularly.

Hey Majo!

That's okay, thank you for the consideration you took. I especially like how you think children are something like their parents subconscious, a belief I've been similarly pondering.

An infant and young child after all, have not yet developed the critical left brain thinking skills required to weed out disempowering attitudes and beliefs. By default, the emotions they experience at home go virtually directly into the child's subconscious, since children operate primarily via feelings.

[Majo]

I totally agree with you, Kneehighs; thanks.

[kneehighs]

This is just a thought. I already know everyone's history with heels is different, so this will not apply to everyone here.

Separation anxiety is common in infants and peaks around 10-18 months of age, those months when most infants first learn to walk as well. At this age, an infants brain and neurology is still developing. Associations learned at this age arguably become learned at a cellular level and become imprinted into the physiology of the infant, arguably for life. The Developing Mind, a book by Daniel Siegel addresses this issue in depth.

A woman's shoe is literally often just a piece of manufactured leather. It comes from a sheet of leather and the leather comes from a cow. In it of itself, a shoe means nothing and gains value only from how we choose to interpret it. Through early conditioning which begins in infancy, a shoe begins to symbolize femininity. The soothing presence of the mother is arguably the first learned association. The presence of the mother is arguably symbolized in a woman's shoe. Since these associations are learned at an early age, the symbolism gets neurologically hardwired into our physiology and brains.

Could this help explain for some of us, why our desire to wear women's shoes never goes away? Could it explain why some find wearing women's shoes comforting and a source of reducing anxiety? And why for some, they intensify those positive feelings by sexualizing the shoe?

Perhaps wearing women's shoes is merely resolving early separation anxieties? You control the symbol and presence of the mother as an adult, because as a child you had no control over when the separation would occur?

Again, this is mere hypothesis.

[Majo]

It could be this way, kneehighs. I see this could be the kernel of fetishism than the pleasure for using heels. As you say, it may not apply for everybody. In my case, I sometimes have a certain compulsion to wear and/or buy heels which I believe could more associated to a fetish than to the mere pleasure of using a pair of outstanding shoes, sandals or boots. The compulsion makes me feel it could perfectly fit in the fetish area. Never the less, I enjoy using heels and seeing ladies in beautiful footwear beyond the plain sexual thing.

[SleekHeels]

That's a fascinating hypothesis which might explain some aspects of the desire to wear high heels, at least, as you say, for some people.

In a toddler's world crawling around on the floor and under tables, mum and dad would be pretty easily identifiable by their shoes. I think there could have been an element of that with me but I really don't remember. I guess there must be some deeper pre-disposition or context too otherwise everyone would make that fixation. Meanwhile some mums might never wear high-heels or other feminine shoes, and their kids might pick up the symbolism of high-heels elsewhere (envy of older sisters, general media).

I vaguely remember reading something about a desire to return to the womb as part of childhood psychology, which I guess might very well relate to separation anxiety. The interesting thing here is that, presuming girls go through the same separation anxiety as boys(?), the mother occupies a privileged position and this makes it a cross-gender issue for boys but not for girls, which is consistent with the "cross-dressing" label being one-way.

What you said about finding "wearing women's shoes comforting and a source of reducing anxiety" is also interesting in that for guys it actually creates mountains of anxiety in dealing with it, which just goes to show how strong the comforting effect would be to overcome that. In my experience the first mountain was the inner anxiety of reconciling high-heels as part of my personal identity; being happy with who you are inside, the second mountain is then the wider social stigma.

[kneehighs]

Speaking of fetish, there is actually a movie called "Fetishes" where several people interviewed recount childhood incidents related to the development of their fetish: --one guy with a rubber bondage fetish, a Wall Street broker with his own tailored rubber suit liked to be held immobile while in rubber and placed in servitude, anything where he was not in command in the situation. It dated to a pre-teen game where he hid from an "enemy: in the game and was encased in plastic to hide. He learned to eroticize the sense of fear from that game. --another elderly guy who was retired bank manager with a rubber fetish spoke of a childhood incident of discovering rubber helmets ladies used to wear when swimming. When his ears were covered up he "felt different. That was something you shouldn't have been doing, but I did" It had rubber feathers on it. Interesting stuff.

[Gudulitooo]

Kneehighs, Your hypothesis about the role of the mother could be checked by a simple analysis : among men that had a mother NOT wearing heels, how much fantasize on heels in adulthood. Then do the same for men that had a mother wearing heels and check the bias. My mother was indeed wearing heels. Thus she had heels at home, and fortunately in a size that matched my feet up to the age of 14. Regards

[dww]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I have interogated my brain for at least 50 or so years to try and find out where my interest in girly type shoes came from. It certainly was not my mother if she wore heels I don't know. My mum also had seven children I cannot remember her being pregnant and I am the oldest but I can remember things relating to me from about the age of 4 or so. I have two sisters both younger than me so I know it's nothing to do with them, and I can remember my younger brothers being born. My first reaction to girls shoes I can remember was my first days at infant school there was a little girl in my class that wore a nice pair of red sandals, I remember thinking that I would love a pair of shoes like that. As far as I know that is were it all started and will never stop until I'am put in my box, It plays on my mind all the time but I live with it. It does annoy me that I cannot a true reason, my liking for high heeled type shoes did not really start until I was about 17 and I could afford to buy my own. My last thoughts are I know this is not a sexual thing and never has been.

[kneehighs]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I have interogated my brain for at least 50 or so years to try and find out where my interest in girly type shoes came from. It certainly was not my mother if she wore heels I don't know. My mum also had seven children I cannot remember her being pregnant and I am the oldest but I can remember things relating to me from about the age of 4 or so. I have two sisters both younger than me so I know it's nothing to do with them, and I can remember my younger brothers being born. My first reaction to girls shoes I can remember was my first days at infant school there was a little girl in my class that wore a nice pair of red sandals, I remember thinking that I would love a pair of shoes like that. As far as I know that is were it all started and will never stop until I'am put in my box, It plays on my mind all the time but I live with it.

It does annoy me that I cannot a true reason, my liking for high heeled type shoes did not really start until I was about 17 and I could afford to buy my own. My last thoughts are I know this is not a sexual thing and never has been.

Awesome self insight, thanks.

I really do think your experience at age 4 is Pavlovian Conditioning coupled with neural imprinting of your highly malleable brain and physiology at that age.

What science has learned though is that the brain retains it's plasticity even into older age, which would beg the question, "if you can re-wire your brain (which you can) would you rewire it to remove the association of love for heels?"

[benno]

"if you can re-wire your brain (which you can) would you rewire it to remove the association of love for heels?" No, It would mean that everything I'd thought and experienced up to that point would have been fruitless and a waste of emotions. I don't see the point in examining myself THAT much. I am happy with where I have got to (pretty much through my own rationalising) and think the next few months/year or so are going to see me finally emerge from my chrysalis. Why would I have a lobotomy and give all that up? Plus I would still have other non clothing or gender related problems... Should we chop out everything we are that's not 'normal', like eating weird food combinations or in my case loving the look of electricity pylons? In Total Recall, Arnie didn't get what he paid for, did he? Instead I'd rather we rewired society to pull it's stupid head out from it's stupid bottom. GREAT TOPIC BY THE WAY. It's epic. Cheers, Ben

[Majo]

If I would rewire anything of my brain -and I have done already...- my taste and use of heels wouldn't be -and actually wasn't- in the list for sure. On the contrary; I started street heeling since the re-wiring as I started to handle with much more inner peace the use of heels. I must thank my wife for her tolerance and acceptance also. I put both tolerance and acceptance because in some things she is accepting, and in others she had to tolerate me and support me too.

[kneehighs]

"if you can re-wire your brain (which you can) would you rewire it to remove the association of love for heels?"

No, It would mean that everything I'd thought and experienced up to that point would have been fruitless and a waste of emotions.

I don't see the point in examining myself THAT much. I am happy with where I have got to (pretty much through my own rationalising) and think the next few months/year or so are going to see me finally emerge from my chrysalis. Why would I have a lobotomy and give all that up? Plus I would still have other non clothing or gender related problems... Should we chop out everything we are that's not 'normal', like eating weird food combinations or in my case loving the look of electricity pylons? In Total Recall, Arnie didn't get what he paid for, did he?

Instead I'd rather we rewired society to pull it's stupid head out from it's stupid bottom.

GREAT TOPIC BY THE WAY. It's epic.

Cheers,

Ben

Ah, it was rhetorical question, intended to stir an emotive response of either fight or flight. Many wouldn't be here on the forum it they didn't want to "fight". By fight, I mean resolve the inner challenges inherent in heeling as a man: to integrate their freestyling into a wholesome and healthy empowered identity.

If I would rewire anything of my brain -and I have done already...- my taste and use of heels wouldn't be -and actually wasn't- in the list for sure.

On the contrary; I started street heeling since the re-wiring as I started to handle with much more inner peace the use of heels. I must thank my wife for her tolerance and acceptance also. I put both tolerance and acceptance because in some things she is accepting, and in others she had to tolerate me and support me too.

Amazing. Majo, if I'm ever in Argentina again -- perhaps Buenos Aires unless you live in the North -- we have to meet. I love your attitude towards yourself and others.

[Majo]

Your are most welcome, Kneehighs. I live in the Grater BA so, if you come to Argentina, it will be a great pleasure to meet. I travel a lot though you need to tell me with some time for schedule.

[dww]

When I say I can remenber things from about the age of 4 it's big things like getting out of my dads sidecar (motorbike) walking around the front and putting my hand on the hot exhaust. Going down to the solent (southampton) and seeing all the flying boats lined up, my great uncle giving me a balsa model plane to play with. Somethings you can remember, and if I put my mind to it I can remember most of my childhood, school days etc to the present day, but why girly shoes, who knows I certainly don't.

[CRabbit]

Hi Folks, I've followed this thread with some interest for a while and decided to add my mark to it. I don't recall much consideration for footwear or clothing until I was around the age of 4 or 5, at which point a cousin of mine around 15 years older than myself (approx. 20 at the time) visited my parents wearing a stunning dark grey skirt suit & jacket with matching 4inch stiletto courts(pumps). - this would have been around '85 to '87. Up until this point I don't think I'd ever noticed any difference in footwear between men and women, my mother certainly wasn't the type to wear heels unless it was a special occasion. On that day I vividly recall thinking to myself that those shoes were beautiful and I believe I was chastised for trying to steal them from the shoe rack by the door. Since then I recall stealing high heels from the girls 'dress-up box' at the local play-school/playgroup and it progressed from there. I can't say my parents had an impact on my desire to heel at all, but my cousin certainly did.