Arctic Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I'm not into skirts or anything, but this may be an interesting article for some of you: http://www.orange-today.co.uk/news/story/sm_747443.html What's all the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Bert what an excellent article and so true. Equality should mean just that. Jx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Absolutely, unless equality between the sexes is a two way street, then it isn't really equality, just another form of inequality Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I was struck by a glaring case on Wednesday. I had to deliver a small pallet of freight to a primary school. It only weighed about 20 KG (40lb) and I would have been able to carry it easily if it hadn't been for the bulk. But guess what, the woman in reception refused point blank to give me a hand- and she was wearing trousers. My point is, in what way does wearing trousers make her equal to me? The grounds for refusing to help me was purely because she was a woman. I was able to lift that pallet on my own (with a struggle) so I am clearly superior to her (only because she felt that her limitations precluded her from lifting it with my help). I came away thinking that she had no right to wear them because all those women were spat at, attacked and otherwise villified for wearing mens' apparel just so she can swan about in trousers without even considering what equality really means. There are women who do the same work in heavy industrial settings as their male counterparts and I applaud them, on the otherhand, there are those who take the rewards of "equality" without any of the responsibilities. They are quite happy to regard wearing of "male" clothes as a "right" but then when this equality no longer suits them they become feeble women. It is wrong to switch your responsibilities on and off. These people use rights as a weapon and it makes me jolly cross. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Amen, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Dr Shoe wrote: the woman in reception refused point blank to give me a hand- I also agree with the equality theory you advance but I wonder if she actually refused to help you because she was a woman or because she decided that it wasn't her job? By the way, you've a great deal more patience than I because, unless unloading freight at it's delivery point is part of your job (I know that it is the courtious thing to do), I would have just driven off with the parcel undelivered after the woman's refusal to help. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Did you actually ask her or was her refusal implied by her watching while you were struggling with the bulk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 You make some good points Dr Shoe but this woman may have refused to help for a valid reason.I understand your frustration but perhaps she had an injury that was not immediately obvious to you.? Then again, she may beleave that helping a "mere delivery boy" to be beneath her station...(now that would really rot my socks.) :x It's hard to say why she didn't help,just let it ride and move on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I have to agree that maybe she has/had an injury that did not allow her to be able to help you, Or maybe she assumed that the box was heavier than it was due to the size of the box. In regards to the wearing of the pants, that she should not have been wearing them where she was not equal to you. There are men out there that should be in skirts then for not helping me with heavy items, If you want equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 some women can really be snobs! Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Are you referring to me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirted-UK Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I was struck by a glaring case on Wednesday. I had to deliver a small pallet of freight to a primary school. It only weighed about 20 KG (40lb) and I would have been able to carry it easily if it hadn't been for the bulk. But guess what, the woman in reception refused point blank to give me a hand- and she was wearing trousers. My point is, in what way does wearing trousers make her equal to me? The grounds for refusing to help me was purely because she was a woman. I was able to lift that pallet on my own (with a struggle) so I am clearly superior to her (only because she felt that her limitations precluded her from lifting it with my help). I came away thinking that she had no right to wear them because all those women were spat at, attacked and otherwise villified for wearing mens' apparel just so she can swan about in trousers without even considering what equality really means. There are women who do the same work in heavy industrial settings as their male counterparts and I applaud them, on the otherhand, there are those who take the rewards of "equality" without any of the responsibilities. They are quite happy to regard wearing of "male" clothes as a "right" but then when this equality no longer suits them they become feeble women. It is wrong to switch your responsibilities on and off. These people use rights as a weapon and it makes me jolly cross. I have often wondered if straight skirts came into fashion for men, would we be able to ask all those women in trousers for assistance. Would we be able to use our straights skirts as an excuse for not doing something. I wonder how far you would get if you said to a women in trousers, "You will have to do this I'm wearing a tight skirt!" I think it would go down like a lead zeppelin "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave ! " The Eagles, "Hotel California" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I was referring to the woman that wouldn't help Dr. Shoe. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Women in trousers really came into their own during world war 2, for example: women working in factories & women in the Womens Land Army all war trouser for safety and modesty reasons. Even the women at Fighter Command HQ in Bentley Priory, down in the filter room wore trousers so the wen they went up the ladders to the plotting board their modesty wasn't compromised! After the war many of these women didn't want to go back to only wearing skirts and dresses, and why should they have? They continued to wear trousers inspite of all the ridicule and abuse they were getting, and not just from they men either. And as Dr Shoe stated in an earlier post, they were sometimes physically abused too, anything from being spat at to worse and again, not just from men. Now, most of the women who blazed the trail did so for quite practical reasons, they were working during the war in physical jobs, working in factories building weaponry, aircraft, and working on the land with heavy machinery, often with men insisting that they do their work in skirts! And this despite the fact that in the case of the WLA, they had a quite specific uniform! It is no wonder that after the war all these women wanted to keep their trousers, after all, they had earned them! Nowadays, many women wear trousers purely for style, whereas they are really designed for practicality and safety. They are like a tin of Ronseal, they do exactly what they say on the tin, they keep you safe when doing heavy work. Only certain women would look at trousers as a style statement, and yes i've known many women, whilst wearing trousers, who have asked to "big strong men" to do lifting jobs that they themselves would be quite capable of tackling and not just because of what they were wearing. Heavy work is more down to technique than actual physical strength. Now it stands to reason that, if we are to have equality in this world, then it should be just that, equality in expectation, in clothing, in cosmetics, in employment, in duties, in everything that life itself has to offer (although to be fair, i'm afraid only women will have the dubious pleasure of giving birth, neither man no woman can be blamed for physiological differences between the genders ) fortunately it is only a minority on either side of the gender gap that makes things bad for the rest of us. I've known many a woman who is just as happy to get "stuck in" and i've known many men who have been gentle and empathic. And I would like to believe that most men and women are fighting the equality fight So I would say to everyone out there who are fighting to wear what they want, keep up the fight and don't get downhearted, and if you do find someone who is "all mouth, no trousers" remind them that with the clothing they wear comes certain responsibilities, and that a great many women & men fought against hostility and ridicule to wear just that! Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 If I ask any of you to do any lifting for me.....I am in physical therapy for my back.....OK???? It got hurt in a car accident 3 years ago. Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I'm not attacking anyone! If anybody has any kind of injury then they shouldn't lift anything, after all, who'd want to make an injury worse? When i'm on public transport, and it's busy, and i'm taking a seat and see older people standing, I try to give them the seat, however, if i'm suffering from leg pains for example (i do from time to time as a result of an operation. The anaesthetic has ended up causing more problems than the surgery resolved ) I at least offer but say that i'm in pain myself. I feel it's only polite So the question is: regardless of gender, age or whatever, isn't only polite for the receptionist to either offer assistance, or offer to find assistance to help carry to large bulky package? If the receptionist has an injury industrial or otherwise she/he could easily have explained the fact rather than just ignore the fact that someone was struggling with a bulky package? And my sysmpaties with your injury texasbumpkin, hope you get well soon Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 T-Bumpkin, Bob or anyone else that is reading this thread. I was thinking more along the lines that the woman was sending a terse signal that helping delivery men "wasn't in her job description." I don't believe she would have offered to help no matter how she was dressed. There are some people that really believe that "manual labor" is a mexican and "getting their hands dirty" is beneath them. If this "Old Gal" was suffering "back trama," a simple "I would offer to help but I'm undergoing treatment for a back injury" would have quickly clarified the situation and made the incident much less irritating to Dr. Shoe. At least he would have gotten the impression that she recognized his plight and really was sympathetic. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I know what you mean. To be honest, working in IT I am sometimes called upon to shift bits of kit. A fully loaded server can weigh upwards of 70KG, which is about as much as I weigh. Now I can and do shift that, but it's a nuisance if I happen to be wearing a suit, so I'd rather not. If I'm warned that shifting kit is likely, then I turn up in jeans and muck in. Of course, my EPMs tell me that shifting stuff *is* in my job description, but *don't* replace damaged clothes So, I'd offer to help, but perhaps slightly reluctantly if there was a danger of me wrecking my clothes! I once tore the seat out of a suit when I picked up a 21" monitor. *That* was deeply embarrassing! Plus I've trashed a couple of shirts and a tie. OTOH, I had to carry my then 4-year old back from London once. He weighs 22KG, and I struggled all the way from the London Eye back to the end of the Tube. There were several people around, no-one offered to help, and I had to ask for a seat on the tube, and listen to various tuts of disgust... Sigh! Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I helped a mum take her push-chair up the stairs on the tube once, she was absolutely gobsmacked that someone actually helped I think the "natives" saw me for the outsider I was Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I offered to help a little old lady who was clearly struggling and got a very terse "I'm quite capable of doing it for myself, Thank You" in reply; and had to quickly step out of the way to avoid being jabbed with the umbrella or walking stick (I don't remember which it was) she was carrying. You can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 The worst thing that happened to me was on a bus. I was 8 months pregnant with my second child, I had my 2 year old and a pushchair. I was sitting on the bench seat at the front of the bus, which is reserved for the elderly and mums with children, but that time, I was seated next to a male and female both in their twenties and no children. The bus stopped at a pick up and a very elderly lady got on, must have been in her eighties. Neither of the two people next to me got up to offer her a seat, so I did, even though I had a right to be there. She took the seat and I didn't even get so much as a thankyou and I had to stand with my daughter, pushchair and my very pregnant condition. The other two just sat there. I didn't mind the standing as I am a strong person but I really couldn't believe that the old lady didn't even thank me Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I helped a mum take her push-chair up the stairs on the tube once, she was absolutely gobsmacked that someone actually helped I think the "natives" saw me for the outsider I was I've done that too, and again had a surprised reaction. Sad, isn't it? Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 It is quite sad isn't it, I was allways brought up to be polite, yet more and more people these day's aren't Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Couldn't agree more guys Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I was allways brought up to be polite, yet more and more people these day's aren't You and me both.It really takes no more effort to be pollite than it dose to be a rude ass. When I open a door for some one it's nice to get a cordial "thank you" in return.It's supprising how often I don't tho.. Even those that barge thro when I'm holding the door and say nothing, always get a "you're welcome " from me.Perhaps they will pause long enough to think about whats just happened... jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 BTW Julietta,I think every one here, including me, would give up their seat for you in an instant,pregnant or not. Those folks on the bus were unbeleavable! jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I certainly would! But those people are only unbelievable if you don't live in England. I used to think that only retired Army Majors used to complain about the standard of politeness dropping, but I sometimes think that people are becoming a little less polite. Sad but true. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Gently nudges discussion back to Boys who got detention. Sorry I was guilty for taking it off topic too! You can start a discussion about modern day manners in a new thread if you want, and more people will see it then as the title will be correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobHH Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 While visiting Washington, DC on business, I held a door open for a woman while leaving the building. She stopped, surprised, and said "You must be from out of town. No one around here would ever be polite like that!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 While visiting Washington, DC on business, I held a door open for a woman while leaving the building. She stopped, surprised, and said "You must be from out of town. No one around here would ever be polite like that!" Ah, but what shoes was she wearing ? Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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