Laurieheels Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 People can think whatever they wish, make whatever comments they like. Now, if we sit here, and have a cynical attitude about people making comments behind our backs, about the way we live our lives, and we actually care about that, we might as well join the army and go off to die in some distant land over an issue that political leaders are too immature to settle. Let's just be happy, and live for ourselves. If others cannot understand this, then guess what? We should pity them, not be upset with them. If people comment about JeffB when he is not in range to hear them, so what? So long as he is happy, living his life, and no one is getting in the way. Cowards snipe with hurtful comments out of ear shot, and why should we fear them? See? This is easier to deal with than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Heels Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Well put Laurie. Learning to not let what other people may or may not think of you for such silly things can be difficult but in the end very liberating. I have taken a lot of heat over the past ten years for wearing cowboy boots almost all of the time, mostly because I live in NH. It's not exactly the wild west, so I've heard all of the stupid comments; Where's your spurs?, Where's your horse? etc. After a while I just learned to either ignore it or joke about it with whoever. Now this may not be as hard to overcome as wearing heels in public, but I think the same principle applies. In the end I'm happy and comfortable and that is what is important. I respect the fact that other people have a right to their opinions and my only request is that people in turn respect mine. Why should I have to dress like everybody else. I would never try to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't wear. The world would be a boring place if everbody looked and dressed the same. Life is too short and I would like to have as much harmless fun as possible while I still can. NH Heels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Rose colored glasses? No, I don't think so. I'm sure there have been snickers and snide remarks said to my back in whispers since I began wearing heels in public. In fact, I'd been shocked if that wasn't the case. But I've long since came to expect that sort of thing and let it all roll off my back. And since no one's actually said anything to my face, I'm not going to worry about that. I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing and have fun in the process. I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Julietta, I might ask that you read my original post on this topic on page four. It's more accurate and honest as anything ever written on these forums. Many of the long time participants here witnessed or participated in the events I briefly outlined. I only ask that you read and interpret it as I wrote it. You will notice in the posts which followed, no one denied it or found anything wrong with what happened. You're a woman, tell me how I'm supposed to feel about all of this or how you might feel. Susan Hi, Thank you for your comment (above). I must confess however that I responded to this forum soley on the title and not from reading all that had gone on before. Therefore my remarks were made purely on my true feelings on the subject i.e. my feeling as a female on how I view men in heels. My feelings have come from knowing a male (my best male friend) who after becoming my friend because we communicated and related to each other really well, trusted me enough to tell me about his preferred foot wear. I really liked him before he told me his clothing/footwear preferrences. I liked him because, not only is he a lovely person, he accepts me for who I am and is still my friend through all my ups and downs. If tomorrow he told me that he wanted to become a punk rocker, a tramp, a tv, a preacher or a naturist, cover himself in tatoos or put on 3 stone and lost his hair, he would still be my friend even if my tastes differed because I like the human being that he is beneath. Clothes are simply adornments. To qualify my feelings please take a look at history and men in high heels, starting with early 1600's to 1970's, and you will see that it is nothing new really: Male indoor mules 1620 1688 costume, hose, bloomers, heels and a lot of frills Boots - the thigh boots have high wedges The Beatle Boot - named after the Beatles bringing heels back in fashion for men 1960's Last but not least the platform glam rock era of the 70's I have gone back and read all your bits and bobs Susan. I am so sorry for your friend and understand how you could feel this way. But a rapist is a rapist regardless of his dress code and my guess is that he would be a brute regardless of his passion for heeled shoes. I have known a few friends who have been raped or abused. The circumstances although different end up being one thing - all were raped/abused against their will by people who harboured hatred and disrespect for their victims, but none of the people I know who were violated in this way were violated because of heels. I love that you are a femine woman. I rejoice in the freedom you have to express that femininity. I love to wear heels/skirt one day but also may want to wear jeans/hiking boots another day. I am lucky as a female I can cross the dress code barriers and no one bats an eye. JeffB is lucky that he can be who he is and whether they talk behind his back is irrelevant because he has a positive response to his face, quite honestly I bet they all love discussing shoes with him, I know I do with my friend. I wish my friend had that freedom. He can't even show his collection to his own girlfriend. He has to hide who he is because he fears ridicule and it is not fair because he is a lovely kind hearted person who deserves to wear what he feels comfortable in wearing. Hopefully the world will change and we can all live and let live in peace and harmony, hey that's if the nice suited gentlemen with their "manly" demures don't press the button and kill us all first. I think the world has enough negativity and I like to look at the world in the positive. I try to see the beauty in every human I meet but I do know that unfortunately there are some nasty people out there but I won't let that few and far between negativity spoil my views for the majority. I wish you all the best Susan. I do understand your point of view, I wouldn't want to change it you are entitled to your feelings just as I am entitled to mine. Happy new year Love always Julietta xxxx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 I agree with Emery. Every now and then, someone comes along and puts into writing what a lot of us have been trying to say for a long time but couldn't find the right words. Thanks Julietta and Susan. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Very good post Julietta. It's full of irrefutable logic and nice research, so whether it coincided with my views or not, I'd have trouble disagreeing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Nice one, Julietta. I can't disagree with a word. I'd all but given up on this topic, but I'm glad I've read your wise words. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Nicely styled! And it's true! Nobody has said it better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan (the original) Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Once again I don't even know where to start. I'm almost past trying to make any sense of this and every time I try to give benefit of doubt, the realities I've contended for so long are once again demonstrated. Hany any demeaning identity on me you want, I just don't care anymore. I have feelings, deep heart felt emotions, and I deeply care about people too. Quoting Julietta telling about her friend and his girlfriend - "He has to hide who he is because he fears ridicule and it's not fair because he is a lovely kind hearted person who deserves to wear what he feels comfortable in wearing". This lovely kind hearted person is perpetrating a lie through deception and deliberately misrepresenting himself to a young woman whom he is in a relationship with. Everyone here has agreed with his actions. Obviously and without question this young woman "deserves" absolutely no consideration, no respect for "her" values, and no thought of the potential emotional devastation if and when she learns of the "real" him. His desire and right to wear high heels is more important. This is the " reality" of the description and explanation Julietta outlined. I've been a widow for nearly two years. Some day I may meet another man I cherish and fall in love with. If we were to wed and I learned of such a trait in his character, I can't comprehend the emotional destruction I would suffer. Now, I hope someone here tries to "tell" me if I loved him I'm "supposed" to accept him and his hidden desires. My response to that - NO, absolutely not. He is not the man, not the person I fell in love with. Quite possibly the young woman mentioned above may have similar dreams and values as mine. Every time the history of men wearing heels in certuries past is so proudly brought before us, I have to wonder. During those era's in time women were considered inferior beings. Any woman who dared to defy a man's control was punished, tortured, and even put to death. Wonderful culture wasn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver8 Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 They weren't all that easy on men in those old days either. Life was brutal, nasty, and short, except for a very small few who lived well and got to look sharp. Now most of us enjoy a living standard far beyond even the kings of old. So let's treat each other well and look beautiful as we do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Susan Hi, Sorry that you seem to think that there is a personal vendetta against you, you sound so personally wounded by all this. I purely (to repeat myself) answered this forum on the original question that Geoffrey posted and not (as I have already said) on the previous postings, and sorry I guess, that I didn't quite relay my friends circumstances correctly, I didn't think I would have to be quite so specific. So to put the record straight... Firstly when I said he has to hide who he is I meant really from the world in general (I perhaps was not very articulate there, apologies). His girlfriend "tolorates" his wearing of nail polish and shoes. She does know of this, she even buys the odd thing for him (although she did recently threaten him by saying that she wouldn't buy him anything anymore) and he wears them in front of her to remarks like "that isn't very manly" and "don't wear that outside or in front of my family". So he hides new purchases for fear of a) upsetting her and being critisised, all because at the end of the day he loves and respects her. He has tried in the past to be "normal" for her sake as she can't cope with his freestyle and is just drawn back into just wanting to be him. His mother and grandmother support him, his girlfriend tolerates it. Is that right or fair then Susan? Two people who love each other that compromise their values because of what is classified as the "norm".? If I were to take a negative point of view on this I could say she tolerates it because, although she loves him, he is a professional in a very good job who once further qualifies will give her a lifestyle and prestige that will help her tolorance of his preference of dress. I often wonder if her tolorance would stretch if he decided to jack it all in and go for a normal mundane low/middle waged job. On the other hand and to show that I think of things at all levels, I do feel for his girlfriend, who obviously loves him and is bending her values and her feeling of embarassement to the best of her ability because of her love for him. The truth of the matter is, that if society were more tolerant she would not have to feel the way she does because, if his dress preference was fully accepted she could enjoy fully the man she loves without the stigma or feeling of embarassement. Quite frankly I shouldn't have to be justifying this to you Susan. I quite clearly said that I respect your feelings and understand why you have such strong feelings on the matter. I also said that I love that you enjoy your femininity. I didn't want to reply to you in the first place really, as I can see that you want to draw anyone out for an argument on this issue to infact try to change our point of view. If you don't want to discuss this further then just don't, but don't keep trying to change people's minds with a different point of view from your own, and please please don't take any difference of opinion as a personal insult, life is way to short to be so sensitive to others comments, I do not know you how can I possibly go all out to offend you, I wouldn't want to. At the end of the day I really don't care what you think of my friend because I know him and you don't. I do however care if he see's your postings and feels kicked down again for just wanting to be free to be himself without yet more critisism. Women have been fighting for equality for years, the campaign by some has become so anal that it has gone to the extreme, but equality means just that - equality - for both men and women and until we can all live and let live and appreciate each other for our unique individuality then that just ain't gonna happen. On a lighter note Susan, I do wish that you find yourself the perfect partner and that you can live you life in happiness and contentment. I also hope that your friend finds internal peace and can learn to trust again as I know from experience that this takes time and a lot of help. But I also wish that people can just stop bashing on about something so trivial as clothing and what is basically a humans way of self expression, individualism and what should be a basic human right. Finally Susan, I don't like arguments with anyone so lets just welcome 2003 in with an agreement that we can beg to differ on this topic. Take care Love always Julietta xx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan (the original) Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hello - No Julietta, you were very specific and quite articulate in your descriptions. You said, "He can't even show his collection to his own girlfriend. He has to hide................". Now in retrospect you completely change your story. That doesn't change anything in the realities of what I pointed out in my response. Everyone here read the same thing I did in your post and they all jumped on board. If I have a vendetta it's in defense of the treatment of women. For some strange reason you seem to find that unacceptable. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfly Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 It's funny how we just identify gender by the clothing we wear. Long ago, how did we identify gender before man/women were smart enough to create clothing? Hello,  my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee!  👠1998 to 2022! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hey Hoverfly good point. Maybe we could lay this argument to rest if we take our fig leaves out of moth balls ready for use again Julietta xx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 A quote from Prince king of heels.... "People say I'm wearing heels because I'm short. I wear heels because the women like 'em." Couldn't agree with him more and he has been out with some pretty beautiful and successful women. Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Julietta, I would just like to say how glad I am that there are women like you around. This thread was actually getting a bit depressing until you joined in. I should also add that from my experience, the majority of women have no problem with men wearing high heels. In fact some of them really do find it quite exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Fig leaf and stiletto heels. The perfect outfit for any occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfly Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Make that a fig leaf with a G string and stileto heels. Fig leaf and stiletto heels. The perfect outfit for any occasion. Hello,  my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee!  👠1998 to 2022! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Now we're talking guys Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 The truth of the matter is, that if society were more tolerant she would not have to feel the way she does because, if his dress preference was fully accepted she could enjoy fully the man she loves without the stigma or feeling of embarassement. Excellent point Julietta. You certainly illustrate things very cogently with posts whih I believe bring out the full truth of the issues in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highluc Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Glad the thread got back on track a bit, at the end it sounded a bit like an argument between Bush and Sadam (you are free to match the characters). I just hope Susan remains the original and doesn't get cloned because .... I felt compulsed to write this after Julietta got the blow when Susan wrote If I have a vendetta it's in defense of the treatment of women .... I hope like Julietta wrote this argument is now closed and we all can live a peaceful 2003. Be youself, enjoy any footwear you like and don't care about what others think about it, it's your life, not theirs. Greetings from Laurence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 This is just my opinion mind you, but I think some, if not most women find the notion of a man wearing high heels fascinating insofar as how guys look in such shoes, how they pair them with specific outfits, and how men manage to walk in them. Using myself as an example, I've been told openly by women that I look quite stylish in pumps (my shoe of choice) and that I wear them well. It also helps that I dress well and make sure that I look as best I can be when I'm out and about, especially in the office environment I'm in. I could be wrong, but I think women view what we're doing as a bold fashion statement, not unlike long hair and earrings. We seek to stand out from the crowd in out own way, and I'm sure women, for the most part find it all rather intriguing. Again, that's just my opinion. I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I have had 1 or 2 simillar comments from a female friend, she also thinks it's "about time men started being bolder with their clothes" I've a sneaky suspicion most women think this way Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Julietta wrote: "Maybe we could lay this argument to rest if we take our fig leaves out of moth balls ready for use again. " Fig Leaves! Hmmm! That reminds me. Two little boys were riding their bicycles down a secluded country lane one summer day and passed a nudist colony. They heard the laughter and splashing coming from a swimming pool that was screened behind a thick hedge growing along the roadway. Being at the curious age, the boys got off their bikes and crawled into the hedge to see where the noise was coming from. The first boy slowly parted the branches of the hedge to reveal a group of naked people splashing and having fun in the pool. The second boy, not being able to get a good look from behind the first boy, asked him what he saw. The first boy said that there was a group of naked people in the pool having fun and making all the noise. Are they men or women? the second boy asked. The first boy responded that he couldn’t tell because they didn’t have any clothes on. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Highluc - I had the same thoughts too Bob and JeffB, I agree that us women do find it appealing. The first time my friend emailed me a picture of his feet with painted nails and in sandals I thought wow how colourful and pretty and far nicer than the so called "norm". Also I was reading Oct 2002's Vogue and apparently Bowie/Prince styles are coming back into fashion so guys and gals we are in for a wonderfully colourful time. It also means that you can all wear your heels with pride, then you just have to keep the fashion going til people just accept it as the "norm". Bubba136 does it make any difference that my fig leaves have a pink malibu feather trim ? Love to you all Julietta xx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highluc Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Highluc - I had the same thoughts too Thanks Julietta, I was a bit afraid of being shot down in flames for this but I couldn't stand it anymore how you were treated after all those long caring posts most of us appreciated. Have nice weekend, Luc Be youself, enjoy any footwear you like and don't care about what others think about it, it's your life, not theirs. Greetings from Laurence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan (the original) Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Highluc, if you believe my comment of a vendetta defending women was meant to be a blow to Julietta (it wasn't) then surely (if you have paid any attention to my writings) your comment of "cloning" was intended to attack my religious values. I can use the same short sighted reasoning you do. Now, in a bit of an attempt to put some reality and peace in all of this for the new year, as many have hoped for, can we look at this from a purely rational logical view for a moment. In Julietta's first post responding to me with her explanation of the boyfriend - girlfriend scenario only part of the story was made evident. It was incomplete. I stand by my comments in my return response because in the picture that was presented the young woman was, by any reasonable standards, being wronged and treated dishonestly. In Julietta's second response to me it turns out the love relationship involving her two friends is one of "tolerance". The girl insults the guy, the guy insults the girl, his penchant for wearing high heels is a constant conflict, there's no forseeable solution, it's all societies fault, but they are in love. OK, so be it, honestly that arrangement is beyond me and it's not my problem, so enough of it. Twice in Julietta's comments it was made clear she was irritated that I had even questioned the girl's safety and it shouldn't have to be explained to me, that I'm a trouble maker and only wanted to start an argument. Nooo, I was most definitely concerned about what was indicated as happening to the young woman, that prompted my comment of, "If (and I repeat "if") I have a vendetta.................". I did, very honestly, vigorously emphasize Julietta's words as I had read them in her posts. I didn't know any other way to make myself understood. Obviously it didn't work. Julietta, I don't believe I made any attacks on you or wished any ill on you, if that is what you interpreted I offer you an open apology. Much of my emotion surrounding this topic of what women think about men wearing high heels centers on the contempt and hate directed at those of us who, for whatever reason, don't want to be a part of it. You mentioned that I seemed to be so terribly hurt by all of this. Your observation is quite fair and correct. Through my efforts to assist my friend with her needs, financial, legal, and otherwise, I was introduced to a dark side of society, abuse. I've witnessed first hand the physical and emotional aftermath of too many such incidents. You indicated you've seen your share so you know what I mean. After attending hearings, participating on panels (forums) and commissions on abuse, and doing research I had to distance myself from it. I see things for what they are and so much of what goes on here re-enforces what we learned on the panels. So yes Julietta, when I recognized the obvious dishonest treatment of the young lady in your "first" description, I responded in her defense. If I'm to be chastised for that, so be it. For our research one of the most convenient places for us to find contempt, hate, and superiority "attitudes" toward women, or anyone for that matter, man or woman, was on the internet. I've been here approximately five years Julietta. Through the efforts of a lot of people we have saved and categorized over three years worth of -- well, you can't imagine. And to keep the record straight, I'm not just talking about what takes place on these forums or what has happened to me. All we had to do was start asking the right questions to the right people in the right places and the truths start to surface. I'm going to be told I'm off topic, but really I'm not. "What do women think about men wearing high heels"? They've certainly made an impression on me. Now, on the other side of the coin, as I've stated in previous posts, actually many posts, I hve me some incredibly nice gentlemen (high heel wearers) on these forums. While I openly disagree with the concept, no one with an ounce of honesty can claim I've ever resorted to name calling, harassment, or character assassinations. Likeweise those gentlemen, knowing and understanding my feelings, have greated me with the utmost respect. Happy New Year Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan (the original) Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 I'll try the last paragraph over again! Now, on the other side of the coin, as I've stated in previous posts, actually many posts, I have met some incredibly nice gentlemen (heel wearers) on these forums. While I openly disagree with the concept, no one with an ounce of honesty can claim I have ever resorted to name calling, harassment, or character assassinations. Likewise those gentlemen, knowing and understanding my feelings, have treated me with the utmost respect. There, that's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Julietta wrote: "Bubba136 does it make any difference that my fig leaves have a pink malibu feather trim icon_wink.gif ?" Julietta, I wouldn't expect anything less from a "feminine " woman However, my analogy would be the bright red/green/gold leaves of a sugar maple tree in the fall for women and the dark, drab, brown and gray oak leaves for men. But, taking a bird, the Cardinal (Richmondena cardinalis or Cardinalis cardinalis - http://www.birds.cornell.edu/BOW/NORCAR/images/mcqnorcar.gif ) as an example, perhaps it should be the other way around. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Bubba136 Hi, Actually it's funny that in all the animal kingdom the males are actually more colourful than the females. I think Prince has already taken your advice: Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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