Ny Times Article On Gender Issues In Children

[Steve63130]

I just noticed that this article was already mentioned in the General Chit-Chat forum by Mr. X. It's a good read, though, so if you haven't seen it, do so. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/magazine/whats-so-bad-about-a-boy-who-wants-to-wear-a-dress.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all The bottom line is that we create social norms that say it's okay for girls to be tomboys but not ok for boys to be tomgirls. Steve

Edited August 14, 2012 by Steve63130

[kneehighs]

I just noticed that this article was already mentioned in the General Chit-Chat forum by Mr. X.

It's a good read, though, so if you haven't seen it, do so.

http://www.nytimes.c...&pagewanted=all

The bottom line is that we create social norms that say it's okay for girls to be tomboys but not ok for boys to be tomgirls.

Steve

Well written article. It made me feel compassion for the kids they wrote about. I think there's promise that the next generation will be more gender tolerant.

Too bad our world is so enslaved to it's own culturally created idea of gender and perches itself on it's own self created throne of Gender Righteousness making gender dissent justification for outright social apostasy. It's not as if gender is historically or culturally consistent. Gender changes with time and space. Our world is not healthy with regards to gender, our world is trapped within the confines of it's own making. It's blind to it's own limitations.

Personally, I've long since removed myself from the trappings of socially constructed stereotypes of proper gender code. It's not for the world to decide for me. It's for me to decide for myself as are the families in the article so doing too.

[Shafted]

Well spoken KH! I too have removed myself from those trappings and I couldn't possibly imagine going back.

[FreshinHeels]

Take notice of this one as well http://prospect.org/article/back-masculinity-patrol

[Steve63130]

There's also some background on the author's research: http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/13/behind-the-cover-story-ruth-padawer-on-parenting-boys-who-dress-up-as-girls/ KH and Shafted, you're absolutely right. Well stated, as usual. Of course the extreme religious right is having a field day with it already, which will only serve to increase the problems for kids. Steve

[kneehighs]

....[snip]....

Of course the extreme religious right is having a field day with it already, which will only serve to increase the problems for kids.

Steve

What are the arguments the Extreme Religious Right is using against this issue? I've never actually debated a proponent from the extreme religious right, but my guess is that they would immediately confuse gender with sex and resort to 2 easy arguments:

1. the "male and female he made them" verse

2. the typical trite Deut 22:5 verse.

[Heelster]

What are the arguments the Extreme Religious Right is using against this issue? I've never actually debated a proponent from the extreme religious right, but my guess is that they would immediately confuse gender with sex and resort to 2 easy arguments:

1. the "male and female he made them" verse

2. the typical trite Deut 22:5 verse.

Those two are the biggies, but the biggest one seems to be the "moral destruction of the family unit" even though it really doesn't seem to make much sense too me.

If you have never had the joyous opportunity to get into a heated debate with a militant evangelic, it's something well worth missing. Been there - done that - I avoid it as much as possible regardless of them being part of my family.

[Steve63130]

Not religious necessarily, but here's conservative drivel that represents narrow thinking. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/paul-wilson/2012/08/12/ny-times-magazine-asks-what-s-so-bad-about-boy-who-wants-wear-dress Steve

[radiodave]

Not religious necessarily, but here's conservative drivel that represents narrow thinking.

http://newsbusters.o...ants-wear-dress

Steve

Oh brother. The NY Times article was interesting, but most of the comments on this one are pathetic. Only a couple of comments trying to go against the prevailing neanderthal comments, but no big surprise that the few who seem to have some gray matter between the ears didn't get much of any reply to their opposing view. I'm thinking if some of those commenters found our site, they'd probably have a heart attack.

[Steve63130]

Well that's one way to weed them out of the gene pool! LOL Steve

[HappyinHeels]

All, I finally read this article and found myself saying "wow, I'm reading a story about myself or about many of our members here."

I accidentally hit the post button too soon. My question to you all is how many of us read this story and the child's reflection is in our own mirror? I can certainly identify with the "middle space" and the kid's assertions that he really didn't want to be called a girl rather wanted to wear girl's clothes as he chose. That's what this article so involved as the more one reads the more I realized, if I were to write about experiences growing up, the more it would resemble this article sort of like reading an autobiography but not written by me. I did gasp though when I read that "60-80% of pink boys grow become gay." I'm not certain it's that high. Without psychotherapists or clinicians or even the experience of having a college degree here is what I have discerned for myself about myself;

That is that I am a heterosexual male with an ever-present feminine side that loves bright colors, art, fashion, and stories about the human spirit. I also embrace being outdoors with my hands in the dirt makng things grow, playing football, talking about guns or deer hunting, or just ideas about different construction projects. I love high heels as much as I love tools. There have been many times I have done projects like digging a pond at our land and cleaned up after a long day on an excavator then gotten changed into my wig, nice summery dress, and sky-high heels and just sat outside a had a smoke or cuddled up to read or watch a movie. I think we men lead very utilitarian lives largely devoid of creativity and color an this "girl time" satisfies that. For many here the middle space may be just donning once favorite heels and that's it but for others it also includes many other thngs.

I would also add one thing conveniently not mentioned in this article. Those in liberal circles love to revel in their idelaistic notions of egalitarianism but the truth is when it comes to transgenderism, the "T" in GLBT is the weakest link because it is least defended and perhaps teh least understood. The selection of the letters GLBT even suggests a sort of hierarchy. If it were alphabetic then it would be BGLT. I think it chronologically as in the G goes first because the gay rights movement started with the Stonewall incident in NYC in 1969, the lesbian rights movement came later and so forth. Granted if a crossdresser goes to a GLBT club chances are good you will be tolerated but how many genetic men can just go to any club or bar known to cater to GLBT people dressed in guy or girl jeans, maybe a girl top, and high heels and be as readily tolerated let alone accepted? So even within supposedly enlightened circles there is inequality. If only hhplace.org were a club or a bar then I think there could the kind of equality I envision.

Anyways, I feel connected to that boy wherever he may be. HappyinHeels