Come on guys, leave the high heels for the girls....

[Slim]

Dang! Did it again today, two or three hours at church and out to eat at O' Charleys, all in my 4"+ spikey Chnese Laundry's. Same as the last 20 years. (south west Ohio, of all places)

[Firefox]

I think it's very unfair to say that about Susan, Driver. I've never regarded her as anything other than genuine, but I haven't really studied what she said that closely. I know she was a rather intolerant sort, eg against men wearing heels which was strange for a woman as I said, but I've always thought her contributions were very positive otherwise. As for guys wearing heels, yes I have seen a few in London and the South of England. London is one of the places in the world where you will see unusual fashions so I don't read anything into that particularly. There some places in the world where intolerance is a fact of life, usually the highly religious places. People are welcome to stew there if they fancy that type of lifestyle. However, I recognise that some, eg the woman of Afghanistan have not had a chance to escape. In my view, intolerance breeds unrest, unrest hatred, and hatred violence, so intolerance is best discarded.

[Firefox]

If or when us "anonymous" people ever see a guy wearing high heels we'll have a decent idea of the person he is.

If you are that perceptive Brad, don't waste times on boards like this You have skills that 99.9999% of the rest of the population doesn't have!

[Charlie]

Janise, I totally agree with you. Everyone who's posted here is intolerant to a degree. You are including yourself in the mix, aren't you? It wouldn't be a correct statement otherwise. I guess this means that we're all human. Gee, what a surprise! I also think enough is enough w/regards to all of us men having contempt for women. It's simply not true. I'm sorry you chose the wrong fellow, but please grow up and stop whining because you made a poor relationship choice. From what you've said, you're out of the situation now, and hopefully you're going to be more fortunate in your next relationship. (I sincerely hope so, btw) Now you've pointed out that it's your opinion that the differences between the sexes are physiological and don't emerge from gender role playing. If you're correct, (I'm not sure I totally agree, I believe a mix of the two is more likely) then there is no solution to the problems that arise from these differences. I then submit that there is no point in repeating this fact if no solution can be reached. It only becomes an excercise in futility. Please remember/realize that this is simply a forum for people that like to share a common interest in shoe styles. It is not an appropriate forum to put humanity on trial. Please go away if that's all you want to do. Charlie P.S. What's your favorite shoe style?

[terayon]

i think as long as women are able to do what they want, that men should be allowed the same curtousy

[Firefox]

^^^^^^^^ Werd, Terayon! That's my view, equality of choice for both sexes. If that's "a biased view" then so be it, but I hope it's a "fair" one too

[Charlie]

Excellent Janise! We're really cooking now. OK, so you disagree with the concept of men wearing high heels, but don't care if they do. That's cool. I'm sure a worldwide poll would find significant numbers of people sharing that opinion. I can deal with that. I'm also glad that you've found my posts realistic and courteous. Thank you. You know, we all have been dealt some setbacks in life, and as such, we find whatever avenue we can to vent a little. That's only human. I've actually struck back at inanimate objects that I've bumped into. How's that for irrational? Sure feels good though.... So, you like pumps with a 4" thickish heel and pointed toe? Way cool. Not really my style, but you know, there are some very special ladies that have a strong interest in shoes that post on the "for the gals" board quite regularly. I think you'd find their conversation interesting from time to time. I for one promise not to interfere should you like to talk to the ladies only on this subject. To each their space is a wonderful concept. Good luck with life in general Janise, and I know things are going to get better. They always do! Charlie

[hoverfly]

On 2002-03-26 01:59, Anonymous wrote:

Dear Anonymous: I did not want to draw out my post but the fact that males are by nature more aggressive than women is abundantly documented by many other observations. We know that the murder rate in domestic violence largely involves men killing their wives or girlfriends on suspicion of infidelity. But the murder rate of men on men compared to murder rate of women on women is also higher by a factor of ten. These murders often arise from disputes among young men for almost trivial reasons. In men as in great apes, aggressiveness is enhanced by the male sex hormone testosterone. Girls born with a hormone imbalance in which their testosterone level is above average of that for females tend to grow up as tomboys and are noticeably more aggressive than their cohorts. And when it comes to a physical confrontation between the sexes the males have the advantage that they are bigger - on the average fifteen percent heavier and about four and a half inches taller - than women. No wonder they have had things their way since history began. Like I said, this aggressiveness served a purpose for our stone age ancestors but it is not appropriate for civilized society. It is not impossible to control it socially but the statistics I cited show that we have not quite succeeded in eliminating it.

Z

Naaaaaaaah... Have to disagree on some of that. Quote:

"aggressiveness served a purpose for our stone age ancestors but it is not appropriate for civilized society. It is not impossible to control it socially but the statistics I cited show that we have not quite succeeded in eliminating it."

If one dose not have enough aggressiveness one does not succeed in life. I think it is they way that both sexes are raised. I say in general men are too aggressive and women are not aggressive enough.

Every one in the circle who are raising up my stepdaughter agreed that she would learn to be more aggressive than her mother was when she was a child. This is because of several negative factors that greatly affected my wife self esteem thought the most important part of he life, growing up. Instead of directly being involved creating the environment, we encouraged her to do physical sutured activities such as sports. These structured activities teach many things needed to succeed in life. Basically the right ways of being aggressive. So far I can say she is no modern techno couch potato. But if she decides to not to continue on a cretin activity than we find something else to do. She only does this three times a week, year round and adjusted accordantly with other school activities.

By nature males are all ways going to be aggressive, we have that hormone called testosterone. I think it is how males are raised determines our overall behavior. To day males need to be more open and sanative but still need to be masculine. But if poor judgment, poor up brining, mental illness or any combination comes in to play. Than we are looking at poor self control and testosterone just amplifies the problems it dose not create it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-03-26 06:09 ]</font>

[Firefox]

All very diversionary and off topic, but I agree with Hoverfly generally. As for leaving the heels to the girls I refer people to the endorphins thread or my latest opinion on the topic in hand:

http://www.hhplace.org/hhboard/viewtopic.php?topic=332&forum=3

[hoverfly]

Hay... I just had to put my two cents in!!!! Come to think of it here is two more. I think my comments above are with in what has been discussed above on my previous message. I also think this thread has served it's purpose. When you start breaking down one major issue you discover it is covered in irrelevances. The bottom line is, it is a mater of biologics, not fashion that defines a sex. Shoes (in this discussion, high heels) has no identity. It's how one uses the shoe to create there own identity. High heel shoes is created by man not by nature. We can alter man made objects to tailor or compromise between gender, there is no defined line. High heels can look maculate, but also made to look feminine. As the old saying goes "If the shoe fits, wear it" Come to think of it, mother nature also does not have a defined line between genders either. She/he/it has males and females. But she/he/it also has gays, lesbians, and transsexuals as well. I think we have been looking to much on the outside of all of this. Not so much looking in the inside, if at all. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-03-26 17:24 ]</font>

[Nata]

At this moment of time, I think it will be difficult for the general masses to accept the fact that high heels can also be worn by males. I come from a country that is still quite conservative. Although I personally have no qualms about guys wearing heels (male celebrities have worn heels on stage eg. The rock singer Prince... ) but it is still not accepted here in my community. It will take some time and I think the fashion community will be the main driving force. Agree ?

[hoverfly]

Ops...again. The one above is form me.

[hoverfly]

U.S. Army put saltpeter (chemical castration) :eek: in there food at one time. Did not work very well. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-03-27 20:03 ]</font>

[BobHH]

I stumbled across a web site about Gonzo and Vampira. Unfortunately I don't have the URL, but with a name like that a search engine should find it OK, and it is also listed on Joak's site. It has quite a few pictures of the two named people in high heels, many stiletto platform slides. Gonzo is a man and Vampira the wife or girl friend. The photography is sometimes quite good/arty and the settings are often different from the usual. Gonzo likes to wear heels, also, and the pictures of the two of them in the same style heels are interesting.

[Firefox]

It's at

http://www.geocities.com/gonzo_vampira/

Some quite nice photography, but definitely the fetish end of the market.

[DandyDude]

As one who "lurks"(mainly from trying to get a handle on this board) mostly and hasn't posted much, I feel I MUST comment on this thread. Firstly, I like wearing shoes/boots with heels. I am NOT trying to fool people into thinking I'm female(CD/TG/TS), or even trying to mock-impersonate women, which is what FIs do. I started wearing heels because musicians were doing it. The fact that girls liked those musicians helped a lot, believe me. I'm involved in music, and women still like men in heels, believe me. I also am into design, so I liked the looks of heels on both sexes. I'm to the point where I accept my attire choices as being part of my personality, and I have no desire to change. I consider men wearing heels(I'm talking about as men, not faux-female) to actually be extremely masculine. Taking the "beating" posts at face value: I would call a man who would do such a horrible thing to be someone who would probably be the first one to call a man openly wearing heels a "faggot". In other words, that person is coming from an entirely different perspective than a man wearing heels as a fully integrated part of his attire. As for the talk about "feminine": My personal taste in women(yes, I'm straight) is overwhelmingly towards the "pulled-together" look. You know, high heels(of course;-) ), skirts/dresses(preferably knee-to-midcalf length),very obviously made-up, with beautiful manicures and hair. I would say that Debbie who posts here and has pictures up would fit into that catagory(I love those silk dresses...mmmm). Actresses I find most appealing are Nicole Kidman and Catherine-Zeta Jones, both of whom dress very well and have great legs. I love Angelina Jolie's wardrobe in her most recent picture. Those skirt suits and pointed stilettos...yummm. I just stared at those beautiful legs/heels and those red-painted lips. Believe me, my thoughts were heterosexual!! In other words, my taste has shifted MORE toward "feminine" women. Another thing, it's true that a man wearing a skirt will not wear it the same way/look the same as a woman wearing it. For example, a woman in a slim skirt and spikes will have her natural pelvic tilt and wide hips emphasised. Men don't have that. Anyway, people emphasise sex roles BECAUSE they are squeamish about acknowledging the TRUE, BIOLOGICAL differences between the sexes. The new roles now are that men must dress in a highly "masculine" manner(actually highly gay), known as "down-low". I personally think that male heel wearers(and the women who love them) will end up like the old swing kids or Zazous who dared to practice male peacockery in the face of shaven headed, saggy-baggy Hitler Youth. Another thread, perhaps?

[Firefox]

Some interesting thoughts Dandy, but I disagree with the way you clump whole sections of society into groups predicting "this" is the new role for men/women and those who don't follow it are in "this" section and will be like suh and such. In truth I think we're all following our own individualline which may conform with a norm in some respects, to a greater or lesser degree, but not in others.

[DandyDude]

Fox, are you saying you don't think there is a renewed pressure on males to be "masculine"? The rap-"down-low" style(?) of dressing is the very antithesis of male freedom. Men who were into style had for decades taken cues from women(winklepickers w/hiheels in the 60s, glam/glitter/platforms in the 70s, spandex/satin/pointy heels in the 80s, even a meld of those things in the 90s(although American media would have you believe the 90s were all about grunge). I like the styles of womens shoes/boots in the last few years, the spikes with long, pointed toes. A bit of an 80s revival to a degree. If you go to a shoe store in any large city, you will generally find the only thing they have "for men" are those ugly military/police derived shoes. Those, or athletic footwear*shudder*. As for the people on here pretty much doing their own thing, true, but I believe at least acknowledgement by others has in the past helped to keep the wolf from the door, so to speak.

[Slim]

I'm with you DandyDood, I would say heels are the height of male power symbols and are anything but gay. Spike heeled boots are on top of the list! Women look good in them too.

[Firefox]

I don't think there is pressure on males to do anything personally. It all comes from inside anyway. It's certainly up to us liberated ones to ignore fashion trends, or at least develop them to our own liking with our own accessories.

[ShockQueen]

I've never been one to follow fashion designers either, for they have a vision of style that is always different from how I perceive it. These days I'll just see something that looks good, I like it, it likes me - it's mine and that's that. It's time for people to be individuals once again, and to stop following trends like so many sheep. As long as you like what you see, then hey....that's all the better.

[DandyDude]

My point was essentially that the down-low crowd dominating the media makes things a bit harder for anyone who doesn't look the same way. It does remind me of old stories about Zazous/swing kids getting in serious trouble with Hitler Youth/Nazis. Essentially, both HY and down-low are/were aggressively utilitarian, and anti-ornamentation in any form.

[Firefox]

I think you're going over my head there Dandy. I don't even understand what "Down-low" is let alone subscribe to it. Maybe it's something big in the USA. I'm actually pretty ignorant whan it comes to what we are "supposed" to wear.

Take for example the Dune web page as reporting this spring's style guide in Maxim;

http://www.dune.co.uk/35.html

(you might need to load the Dune main page first)

"... there's a style of dress to suit every man and every mood..."

What a load of f****ing crap. The same boring collection of men's shoes that we see every year is then displayed.

To quote Laurie, smash and stomp on fashion trends. That's the new wave approach and one which will stay.

[ShockQueen]

Wouldn't you just love to sneak in to one of those shows, ditch every single pair of "men's" shoes in the dressing room, and litter heels all about in various shades and styles? Maybe if at least ONE person got the hint, then maybe they'll take notice and start thinking again.

[DandyDude]

Fox, "down-low" is the huge trousers hanging off the behind, short hair/shaved head, long T-shirts, work boots. It's essentially derived from prison "styles" and has pretty much been forced on people by the media here. The name comes from the fact that those trousers are worn in prison in order to make a certain "act" easier.

[DandyDude]

Slim...I hear ya!!!!:-) SQ...sounds like a good idea. Now...who's going to make sure they are coordinated properly?

[Firefox]

Thanks for the head's up on down-low, Dandy. I don't think I'll be dabbling in it

[Shoeiee]

I just checked out the dune page...In a word...YuK!?!!?!?!??!?!?! Even the 'female' styles of shoes are disgusting!?!?!? And they actually think that beceause they say so, we'll wear the crap!!! NOT! It REALLY IS TIME to be FREE THINKERS when it comes to style!!

[phuonginheels]

I kinda like the Dune shoes, there are some very nice shoes there i like the 'assent' 'amog', 'anchor' and i like the 'casper' the most.

[Firefox]

Actually Dune are pretty good for shoes/boots but I don't think what they have on the webpage is a very good selection of what they normally affer.