Dr. Shoe Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Hey guys and/or gals, We live in a world that wants us to believe human beings are so different by virtue of their equipment for the procreation process, they can't feel or think in similar ways. I contend the similarities of men and women are far more abundant than society wants us to know. Many of these differences are man-made, because we are forced into certain roles by the social expectations. We have created this imaginary "gender gap" from the making of our social ideals, which aren't always realistic to the actual life experience. The so called "gender gap" is actually far more real than you can possibly imagine. Most of the marriage breakdowns and the dysfunction in our society is based on the mistaken belief that men and women are the same. The vast majority of air traffic controllers are men, this isn't because it's a "macho" job and it isn't because men can handle the pressures better than women it's just that it would never occur to tem to give it a try. Similarly, most social workers and nurses are women, not because women are "conditioned" to take on this role in society it is because women are "wired up" this way. Bear in mind that in evolutionary terms, the stone ageis a very recent period in our history. A caveman would be just as capable of learning to drive or operate a computer as modern man is. Similarly mankind has not evolved away from those habits, two million years is a hard habit to break. Men would hunt. He would approach a herd of zebra and all the time he would be working out how far he needs to run and how hard he needs to throw his spear. Men love anything to do with angles and distance, team sports are a hangover from prehistoric hunting trips. Women on the other hand would be making sure the fire doesn't go out, watching the kids, and collecting berries (shopping). this is why women can multi-task much better than men can. None of this is social engineering it is hard-wired from birth. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Histiletto Posted January 12, 2008 Posted January 12, 2008 Thighbootguy, The labelling of the "opposite sex" obviously was due to the social dictates after the gender classifications became established. These dictates would only equate to such a labelling, after they were accepted. When male heeling is accepted and common place, I'm sure a woman's reaction to a guy in 6" heels will be different from the reaction to another women in the same style of 6" heels. The references I have seen with men in high heels are few and somewhat biased, because most of these sightings have been through programs on television concerning the objectives like comedy entertainment, crossdressing, men wanting to become women, or as comedic circumstances to get candid reactions. If this pink and blue idea is so embedded, how did we get the desire to wear high heels? With all the pressures in place, we still came through the oven with heeling on our minds. Dr. Shoe, If I gave the impression that men and women are the same, I want to apologize and will try to clear my position on this matter. You probably got that idea when I wrote something to the effect: the similarities of men and women are far more abundant. -- Human beings have all the potential traits within their access at the time they are conceived. Being the person they are, they makes choices, even in the womb, to define their personality using the traits that most appeal to them. The development of these traits is possible until they die. We all go through this choice process, but our development differs due to who we are, thus our individuality. In the case of women, they have more to deal with and they have to continue to endure it for most of their adult life. This extra need for their development gives them another view in how they deal with and relate to others. Men in this puberty stage may have to deal with it for a few years, but it isn't as demanding as the stage women have to endure. Most other differences are effects of the social scene, such as careers, education, associations, appearance, status, and etc. You pointed out, that through out the recorded history of human beings, there have been certain tasks men and women have been proned to do more readily than the other. I have to agree with this record, but there were also exceptions that also bring out the fact there were and are occasions of role switching or sharing. Especially since the industrial revolution, when women took the place of men in the manufacturing of goods and in working the farms, because the men were fighting in the wars and needed supplies. Since then, we know women have remained in the wage earning work force in greater numbers than ever before. Just as all men can not do all jobs, women can't either, but there are those in both groups that can.
Platformdude Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Interesting thread. I'm always intrigued by the gender dialectic in life. Somebody else brought it up: how do women feel when they step into male clothing/shoes/roles? That's a valid side of the question; I've heard quite a bit of feedback from my female friends about that. Lots of women I know have learned to do "male" things like ride a motorcycle, operate an airplane, or they have worn cowboy boots, combat boots, biker leathers, and similar attire. (And why are these things "male"? For the same reasons high heels are "female".) They will often comment on how different the experience or the clothing made them feel: more powerful, more secure, more aggressive, etc. Again, since they aren't really living as men, they aren't truly experiencing "maleness". But still, the experience does provide some insight into the workings of male culture. To the same rather minimal degree, wearing shoes "designed for women" might give a person some insight into female culture. I've seen where men have worn "empathy belts" that mimic the weight and pressure of a pregnancy to get an idea of the stress their wives go through for the same attempt at insight. I think it's important to realize that for all the sexual differences hardwired into our biology, "culture" is still a construction that people cobble together over time. Culture can change, styles, fads, and traditions come and go. Still, if people spent more time realizing their commonality as humans, things might be much better on this planet of ours. The gender divide is like the divide between nations: often stirred up by the ruling class to keep the masses distracted.
Dr. Shoe Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 An "insight into the culture" of the opposite sex is not te same as experiencing how it feels. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Dr. Shoe Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Dr. Shoe, If I gave the impression that men and women are the same, I want to apologize and will try to clear my position on this matter. You probably got that idea when I wrote something to the effect: the similarities of men and women are far more abundant. -- Human beings have all the potential traits within their access at the time they are conceived. Being the person they are, they makes choices, even in the womb, to define their personality using the traits that most appeal to them. The development of these traits is possible until they die. We all go through this choice process, but our development differs due to who we are, thus our individuality. In the case of women, they have more to deal with and they have to continue to endure it for most of their adult life. This extra need for their development gives them another view in how they deal with and relate to others. Men in this puberty stage may have to deal with it for a few years, but it isn't as demanding as the stage women have to endure. Most other differences are effects of the social scene, such as careers, education, associations, appearance, status, and etc. Actually no. Sometime during the second trimester, the foetus recieves a strong doping of hormones, either oestrogen or testosterone. This dictates the gender of the foetus and this also starts to program the brain of the foetus too. from that moment on the foetus will either be male or female, there are no choices. You cannot generate a gender mindset later on no matter what you do, you are either female or male it is nature not nurture. It is no urban myth that most women find it more difficult to park than men do and that men do not find it as easy to multi-task. This has nothing to do with the way they were brought up. (Source: Why Men Never Listen and Women Can't Read Maps- Alan Pease Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
yozz Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 They will often comment on how different the experience or the clothing made them feel: more powerful, more secure, more aggressive, etc. I think what is happening is that they feel the way they think they are supposed to be feeling. The same way when we put on heels. It may give us a feeling of which we think that this is how women feel. But already I don't think I can feel like many other males even if I do the same things they do. Y. Raise your voice. Put on some heels.
Histiletto Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 Actually no. Sometime during the second trimester, the foetus recieves a strong doping of hormones, either oestrogen or testosterone. This dictates the gender of the foetus and this also starts to program the brain of the foetus too. from that moment on the foetus will either be male or female, there are no choices. You cannot generate a gender mindset later on no matter what you do, you are either female or male it is nature not nurture. It is no urban myth that most women find it more difficult to park than men do and that men do not find it as easy to multi-task. This has nothing to do with the way they were brought up. (Source: Why Men Never Listen and Women Can't Read Maps- Alan Pease Dr Shoe, When I referred to choices being made, the time in the womb is also part of that decision making. Apparently, the bombarding of both types hormones happens either at the same time or relatively soon. This gives the foetus (a person) the choice to accept which sex they want to develop as. Now, I am not an educated physian, so I don't know all there is to know about the pregnancy and birth processes, but there has been documented proof many, as in not a few, babies have both sex genitalia at birth. They are labelled as birth defects by the medical community, but they are common occurences in the sense they happen at least once in 500 births. Divide that into the number of births the world has in a year and obviously, you've got a large number of bi-genital babies. The usual practice is for the parents or the doctor to decide which sex to surgically delete and determine which one the child will have to develop. In some cases this is no problem, because the devlopment of one is more defined than the other. However, there are some cases this determination is solely on those incharge or on the parents wishes. There has been some thought in letting the child develop both until they reach an age they can decide on their own. But so far, this thought has not been main streamed at all, because of the phyical and social diffiiculties the child would have to endure. With the knowledge of possible future surguries or of a shorten life span due to the complications this situation would bring, it would be very interesting if someone were permitted to have the option. I don't mean a "Truman Show" type of existence, but as a Joe or Joi Anonymous. This won't happen or be identified as happening now, because society wouldn't understand or condone such action being taken by the scientific and/or medical fields. I agree there a those people who follow the stereotyping of their sex, but the exceptions are also out there enough to discredit society's labelling for blanket dictates of one size fits all for every individual. I'm suppose to be a picture of macho masculinity, but here I am wearing stiletto pumps on a forum that verifies I'm not the only male with some degree of feelings or affinity with the feminine side. Like I keep saying, we all have all the traits of gender within us. Which ones we have used or developed more than other is from who we are and we have the capacity to invoke more of these traits should we find the need. As to a link into someelse's mind, there is no real path and I personally want to keep my privacy. All we can do is compare information as it comes to us and then speculate or evaluate. We could argue forever about whether or not we can have the same insights, feelings, and comprehensions as our female friends have, they of the male side, or even those of the same side, which would be nice to know, but really would not change who we are. Both of us, along with many others, including females, have desires for donning feminine attire. I can see some possiblities opening for the social acceptance of male heeling and for those who want to, the wearing of skirts and of the other now classified female attire. So, the future looks hopeful. As far as females in masculine attire, well! ..., need I say more.
Dr. Shoe Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 Dr Shoe, When I referred to choices being made, the time in the womb is also part of that decision making. Apparently, the bombarding of both types hormones happens either at the same time or relatively soon. This gives the foetus (a person) the choice to accept which sex they want to develop as. Now, I am not an educated physian, so I don't know all there is to know about the pregnancy and birth processes, but there has been documented proof many, as in not a few, babies have both sex genitalia at birth. They are labelled as birth defects by the medical community, but they are common occurences in the sense they happen at least once in 500 births. Divide that into the number of births the world has in a year and obviously, you've got a large number of bi-genital babies. Actually, the foetus does not have a choice. The brain has not even started to develop so how could it be capable of rational thought? Babies born with both sets of genitalia are called intersex or hermaphrodite and again, this is not a choice, the child does not decide to be born with an abnormality. I agree there a those people who follow the stereotyping of their sex, but the exceptions are also out there enough to discredit society's labelling for blanket dictates of one size fits all for every individual. I'm suppose to be a picture of macho masculinity, but here I am wearing stiletto pumps on a forum that verifies I'm not the only male with some degree of feelings or affinity with the feminine side. Like I keep saying, we all have all the traits of gender within us. Which ones we have used or developed more than other is from who we are and we have the capacity to invoke more of these traits should we find the need. As to a link into someelse's mind, there is no real path and I personally want to keep my privacy. All we can do is compare information as it comes to us and then speculate or evaluate. No you aren't. you just like wearing high heels and that's it.Believe me when I say this, I have had an entire lifetime to think about womanhood and me... I have had a lifetime to wonder whether I am a woman trapped in a man's body or not. Trust me when I say that I do know what I'm talking about. OK, Yes, everyone does have TRAITS of the opposite gender to varying degrees but they are NOT members of the opposite sex and they cannot comprehend what it must be like to be them. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Histiletto Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Dr. Shoe, The actual brain may not be fully developed, but there must be a bit of intelligence in the embryo to oversee the process, whether it is for defending the perimeter against certain hormonal attacks or permitting certain effects. It is hard for us to make that determination from our perception. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't have a way right now to get into anyone elses head or body, male or female, to determine the accuracy of either of our claims. My view has been an evaluation of many many bits and pieces of facts with some speculation. Until I can get more substantial info into what you or I have discussed, I will have to continue in my line of thought, while considering your info and trying to fit it into what I consider reality. Maybe in some infinity, we will come to an assured and actual knowledge of all hard-wirings both sexes have. For all we know, our real sexual identity or our pre-existent identity is really the opposite we are now, because we were sent to earth to experience the other side of existence. Just a speculative thought!
roniheels Posted April 3, 2008 Posted April 3, 2008 I too would like to know if a woman feels the same way I do when I dress up (in a man's suit) and wear high heels. Is it the heels, the dressing up, the combination of both, or something else? I will be honest, I've never had the guts to ask a woman that question.
thedesigner Posted April 3, 2008 Posted April 3, 2008 not really any extra understanding from doing so... cos i like to think soulmate and i understand each other pretty well however i like to think that guys who wear heels do so like me cos theyve got an ambivalent attitude of seeing both sides of a discussion and attitude... we should all be a therapist, or if that fails, just pist.... g,nite all its bedtime....
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