Dilemma with Heel Tip Pin Solved

[raincat]

I found a simple solution which may be of interest to anyone who has a similar problem. My wife has a pair of Delicious (Made in China) Oxfords w/5" stiletto heels. A few days ago, the heeltip on the right shoe simply came loose and fell out. Nothing broken, but when the pin was placed back inside the tube, it was too loose to ever keep the heeltip secured. Problem solved by cutting a piece of paper (not as wide as the pin, but roughly 2X the length of it). I placed the paper over the tube in such manner that when pushing the pin back into it, the paper wedged up alongside 2 sides of the pin. It worked! But, the pin was still a bit loose. Resolved this by finding a magazine with slightly thicker paper on the coversheet and doing it over. The slick, heavy paper as per a magazine cover seemed to work best. Will the solution turn out to be permanent? I don't know yet. If the tube is ruptured, the pin will mostl likely loosen up again. Time will tell.

[Dr. Shoe]

Actually that's a pretty standard way to do it... Just watch it doesn't fall out, most cobblers put a dap of glue on both the pin and the paper. It means that they can get the top piece out if they need to but it shouldn't fall out.

[sendra45]

I was going to say 'watch your step' as these things have a habit of breaking loose. thanks Doc, Yes, a small dab of glue, nothing to hard, but something flexable should keep it from going walkies on its own. nigel

[raincat]

Thank you, Dr. Shoe, for letting me know that I stumbled onto a solution that seems to already have been found to work. Your suggestion about the glue seems like a good one, also. For those of us who don't often encounter them, it's good to have a place here on the forum where we can share solutions to common problems. Excellent suggestion from you, Nigel, that I keep an eye on her when she's wearing that particular pair of shoes. (Any excuse will do!) I hope to have a "report from the field" (as they say) in a few days. hehehe

[Dr. Shoe]

LOL ! Who needs an excuse?!

[raincat]

Some followup on the paper-wedge heel tip repair: The wife and I went out to dinner a few nights ago. She wore the aforementioned black oxfords with the newly repaired heel-tip. Going to dinner involved the normal amount of walking on asphalt and concrete to and from the car, and of course, inside the restaurant. All accomplished with no problems from the shoes whatsoever. The repair appears to be holding.

[shoerepairer]

Raincat, I’m glade your repair held out, BUT

most cobblers put a dap of glue on both the pin and the paper. It means that they can get the top piece out if they need to but it shouldn't fall out.

Dr. Shoe! This simply isn’t true! I have never heard of a cobbler who’s done this! Shame on you!

The pins have a knurled grip on them when they are manufactured, if they do work loss then we either use a flattening technique or an alloy flexible sprung tube insert.

I would never use paper or glue, it only leads to problems further down the line. No stiletto heel should be or would need to be glued.

Lee

[raincat]

Thank you, Lee, for being glad that my repair held out, and also for the further information on this type of problem. As a further update on the situation, what you said proved true. The repair to the heel-pin lasted only for a few wearings, and then it loosened up again. I have not yet re-addressed the problem. Perhaps a slight "flattening" of the heel-pin? Thank you for all of the helpful information you've been providing us here on the forum.

[shoerepairer]

Perhaps a slight "flattening" of the heel-pin?

The tube that is in the shoe isn't solid, they have a seam running down them & are in fact sprung. flattening the pin is only a term, not a literal.

Lightly flatten or fractionally bend the pin at a right angle to the seam in the barrel that way it will open it up slightly giving better grip.

Although ( I would say this!) why not save yourself the hassle & take it into your cobbler, it will only cost a few dollars/pounds to get completely new heels fitted.....

Lee

[fastfreddy2]

I recently had cause to remove the (worn) tips from a pair of boots.

Much to my disappointment the tips were so tight in their respective tubes, the tube left the heel when I tried to (gently) see-saw the tip out of the tube. The locking pin that goes deep inside the heel came out too. These pins were plain (thin) bar.

I had no problem getting the tubes back in the heels, with pins opening up the (split) tubes, and locking them back in place.

I'm no cobbler, more of an engineer. I'd have had no problem using araldite to keep the tubes back in place if necessary. In fact I almost dropped a blob of the stuff inside the heels before the tubes were inserted, in an attempt to lock the tubes in permanently. But they felt fairly secure without additional bonding.

As long as the tip end of the tube can expand for a new tip to be inserted, I can't see there being a problem?

Having re-read the original post, I'd suggest someone has fitted the wrong size tip? It costs £5 around here for a pair to be replaced, money well spent if it saves the heels from further problems? Seems to be a bit of risky solution being discussed here, in what I would be tempted to call a "bodge"

Get the right sized tips fitted? Losing a tip while walking on asphalt could ruin the heel on a shoe, and I doubt Timpson's keep replacement 5" stiletto heels in stock, if at all.

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[shoerepairer]

I tried to (gently) see-saw the tip out of the tube. The locking pin that goes deep inside the heel came out too

That’s kind off the reasoning behind my own ramblings! It doesn’t matter how many shoe repairers there are in the world there will always be someone willing to “give it a go”

I hope that with my advice slightly less damage will be done with a little better knowledge & understanding & that maybe just maybe along the way I might convert one or two DIY’ers to walk through the doors of the local cobblers safe in the knowledge that an experienced, expert is standing behind the counter.

If you read the topic “10 ways to clear a stiletto heel” you will see that with all the techniques shown, NONE use a see-saw action as this can lead to damage to the plastic heel block or the tube coming out unnecessarily.

I'm no cobbler, more of an engineer. I'd have had no problem using araldite to keep the tubes back in place if necessary. In fact I almost dropped a blob of the stuff inside the heels before the tubes were inserted, in an attempt to lock the tubes in permanently. But they felt fairly secure without additional bonding.

Araldite is OK, if & when I replace a barrel I actually use a pair of electric pliers & heat the tube from the inside out, this heating of the heel ensures a firm hold “within” no glue is needed.

As long as the tip end of the tube can expand for a new tip to be inserted, I can't see there being a problem?

This comment, in 90% of cases is correct, however it’s the 10% where the problems escalate with each incorrect repair meaning after a couple of attempts a professional repair is needed. Rendering all previous repairs uneconomical.

Seems to be a bit of risky solution being discussed here, in what I would be tempted to call a "bodge"

isn’t that what you have just done, added to the discussion whilst (in my opinion) mentioned one such “bodge”

I doubt Timpson's keep replacement 5" stiletto heels in stock, if at all.

For our American or International cousins Timpson is a national chain of repairers here in the UK, as for keeping replacement 5” heels in stock, few repairers keep them in stock, why? Because millions of stilettos have been sold over the years, with tens of thousands of variants in many different heights. Virtually all repairers except a few order the closest design in for each individual repair. The infrastructure here in the UK is good enough to get them sent overnight so a day or two to maybe a week shouldn’t be a problem. I think this is more than reasonable for such a repair.

As for Timpson, they actually DO keep many designs in stock, but in one of their Central workshops of excellence. These are dedicated workshops for specific repairs so with a time delay for shoe transportation the time scale I would imagine (don’t know, having never needed to use them!) is a week or two.

Lee

[fastfreddy2]

Lee:

I've had a look at your site, and read with interest (looked at pictures) at the work you do.

The only comment I'll make, is that the methods described and shown will make every trained engineer wince. That doesn't mean you don't do a great job, or aren't a great fellow, but the methods you use do look a bit, well, primitive.

As far as the remark about 'bodge' were concerned, I was supporting your comment actually. So if you don't now agree with me......?

Getting back to removing a heel tip from the sprung tube..... A task you believe should only be carried out by rocket scientists, or a cobbler ....

The heel tip is splined. Why? To ensure there isn't full contact with the tube, which is made of a material that (a) oxidises (can produce electrolytic transfer of material. Ideally, heel tip removal is through a direct in-line pull central to the centre line of the tube. If the heel tip is oversize, or has welded itself to the tube, (as above) the tube will be pulled out of the heel. [As happened in my case.] There is tolerance in the 'spline within tube' design for the heel tip to be rotated in a circular motion with the tube centre being the centreline to the rotation. As the spline has edges, continuous single direction movement can cut material, and make the tube large enough to make the tube too large to hold a replacement tip. A way to avoid this, is a see-saw action. Imagine turning the minute hand on a clock from 5 past, to ten past, then back to 5 past again. The technique can alllow the spline to free itself just enough to remove the tip. If it remains 'welded' to the tube (as in my case) minimal amounts of rotation of the tube in the heel shouldn't cause further damage.

If pulling the tip pulls the spring tube out, this isn't a problem, provided the tube can be returned to it's original position and locked back into place. There is an 'opening pin' fitted at the other end of the sprung tube that increases the outside diameter of the tube deep inside the heel.

In my case, I had to use a slightly slimmer pin to knock out the welded-in heel tips. I've cleaned up both tubes and reinserted them with their respective locking pins. If they subsequently show signs of loosening, I'll araldite the base of the tube in place. The value of the shoes isn't so great I would replace the tube, or replace the heel. Replacing the whole shoe would be cheaper, and I'd get the 'new shoe' look included.

That's the story of my boots, now back 'on thread'.

As Lee has already suggested, it might be prudent to show your heels to a quality cobbler. They are hard to find, I can tell you.

Only last year, I had my friends boots re-heeled at one of the local "cobblers". The first had said the tip on her plastic [blade] heel wasn't refurbishable, and wouldn't take on the job. The one in the next town had no such problem. However, the next time the boots were worn, one of the staples used for the re-heeling broke out of the heel. It produced a dangerous and terminal split that thankfully occurred close to home. Timpson could replace the heels, [at a cost of £18 each or £30 pair] but that cost is more than replacement boots. [The style is not worth much commercially, so are sold very cheaply these days.]

I have this morning asked at a local Timpson what the chances are of them acquiring 5" (or higher) heels. They weren't at all sure, and the shoes would have to be sent away for a week or two, to the company that does their heel replacements to "see what they could do". The inferance was, possibly their supplier might find something suitable, possibly they wouldn't.

So we are back to making good what's already available. As I've said, the heel tip spline seems too small, and that's rather obvious if the tip falls out. A cobbler will know if it's the tip spline that is under size, and installing the correctly sized heel tip is the easiest/cheapest solution. If the spring tube is over sized (worn or mistreated) it's also replaceable, but at slightly higher cost, obviously.

As Lee has said, both jobs can [and in this case should] be carried out by a 'competant' cobbler. And given the probable value of the items needing repair, I too think it prudent you go down that route. As I said before.

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[shoerepairer]

Blimey fastfreddy2 I think I may have touched a nerve!

is that the methods described and shown will make every trained engineer wince. That doesn't mean you don't do a great job, or aren't a great fellow, but the methods you use do look a bit, well, primitive

Perhaps that because you are looking at the problem far to “technically” there is NO correct when it comes to the repair of stilettos, this is because although there is a rule of thumb, with sizes there are quite literally hundreds of sizes, many different materials (ie, sprung steel, alloy, stainless tubes) & more importantly varying degrees of wear prior to repair. Watching an engineer over complicate a task would also make ME wince & I’m sure you will agree that engineering in itself is about problem solving.

Wikipidia Engineer: Engineers are concerned with developing economical and safe solutions to practical problems

The methods employed by repairers may at first hand appear primitive to the untrained eye, but take a closer look at your local cobblers,

• how much investment in machinery do you think he has made?
• How many years training do you think it took to reach the standards he sets?

If your good at something it looks easy, that’s why today I have already repaired around 30 pairs of shoes all with out a hitch.

A task you believe should only be carried out by rocket scientists

This is NOT what I said, but it doesn’t take an rocket scientist to realise that!

Lee

[fastfreddy2]

Hi Lee.

Great response.

Guess I may over-complicate things, but I was never questioning your ability or skill level.

I've seen many attempts made by unqualified people doing craftsmen grade jobs. [shopfitting in the East End of London being a good example.] And for that reason fully understand (and supported) your advice on taking something broken, to get fixed by the 'right person'. But you'll have to agree, some craftsmen are better than others, and the only way of knowing is experience or a trusted recommendation.

Looking at your web-site, and the advice given here, suggests you are someone up there with the best of them. And while changing heel tips might be 'bread and butter' income to you fellas, changing a tip should be within the grasp of someone used to using tools (and I don't mean hammer and chisel ).

So I fully support your advise to get work done on shoes by a competant professional like yourself, especially if the shoes are worth anything at all. The shoes I mentioned, were £20 from New Look. They've been used since mid-January and had been re-tipped several times at £4-80 a pop. Once, after only a week. [Plastic tips.] I'm at the stage now, where the cost of re-tipping is beyond the initial cost of the shoe. It was time I had-a-go, even though re-tipping myself isn't free. Hence 'my experience'.

Yesterday, I manged to be in the right place at the right time. Got a pair of HH shoes for £5. Made in China of course, but it supports my remark about repairing cheap shoes. Not that I agree with our 'disposable' attitude to everything these days, but that's another story.

Cheers!

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[Bubba136]

fastfredy2 wrote:

Guess I may over-complicate things, but I was never questioning your ability or skill level.

I'm glad you cleared that up. For a minute there.........

[fastfreddy2]

That doesn't mean you don't do a great job, or aren't a great fellow, but the methods you use do look a bit, well, primitive.

I'm glad you cleared that up. For a minute there.........

Well, you only need to read what I write, rather than (possibly) what you think I may have written.

I'm nothing if not courteous, even to those who seem to be undeserving.

Looks like this is another thread I'd better leave alone.

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[shoerepairer]

I've seen many attempts made by unqualified people doing craftsmen grade jobs. [shop fitting in the East End of London being a good example.]

Funny you should mention that! I refitted my shop last year!

http://www.cobb-lees.com/plugins/p2001_image_gallery/images/4.jpg

Including, walls ceiling, floors & signage!

As your reply continues

but it supports my remark about repairing cheap shoes. Not that I agree with our 'disposable' attitude to everything these days.

It supports what both off us are saying, I’m realistic about what goes on, as my very first post commented

Noticed some of the advice on shoe repairs was a little wayward, so thought I’d post up some replies to point some topics in the right direction

I can only reply using my “professional” experience. I’m also an avid DIYer & know what can & can’t be achieved in the average garage.

Rant over! A nice little exchange fastfreddy2, the very essence of what forums are all about. please don't leave the thread alone on my account!

Sorry for going “Off topic”

Lee

[fastfreddy2]

Funny you should mention that! I refitted my shop last year!

http://www.cobb-lees.com/plugins/p2001_image_gallery/images/4.jpg

Including, walls ceiling, floors & signage!

Rant over! A nice little exchange fastfreddy2, the very essence of what forums are all about. please don't leave the thread alone on my account!

Sorry for going “Off topic”

Lee

As an example of the "quality" I've seen ......

See the edge veneer covering on your counter? It either comes ready bonded, or you "iron" on additional stripping to a sawn edge? Not in some of the shops I've seen. Nailed on, if you can believe it. With pins (pins!) that 'work out' of the woodchip. And snag my clothes while I'm working there!

No problems with debate from you Lee. It's just that I'm starting to feel like I've got a stalker.

Anyway, I've already reported the sum total of my experience with 'fixing' shoes. I didn't enjoy it (the tube withdrawning had me in 'panic' mode), and have little or no expection of repeating the exercise.

"Keep up the good work".

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