Do you want heels to go with those leggings?

[Dr. Shoe]

http://www.styledash.com/2007/03/27/boys-need-some-heels-to-go-with-those-leggings/

[ShockQueen]

I seem to recall this was on another thread some time ago. I like the look somewhat, although the overly-huge bows on the heels really should go.

[gwl1]

It's amazing how closed-minded people can be. I'm sure most of us fail to see anything wrong with those shoes, and we know it isn't a gay-straight issue at all. Why can't people be more tolerant and let others be? Do they HAVE to be so critical? Do they have to classify everyone into pigeonholes? Reading the first 20 of those comments, I'm reminded of the quote: "Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!" GWL

[new_look]

if they didnt project an image that looked very much overly like a woman, it may give a better impression. IE a normally dressd bloke in some nice jeans, a trendy T shirt and a pair of high cowboy boots or any pair of decent heels come to that. Nothing would look daft just one thing thats a little different but no big deal. I can think of many normal mens outfits that this would also apply to (like the ones kneehighs and Heel D often show) I know this is extreme fashion but its too different from reality for it to catch on.

[jmc]

Well, Annie Wu (author of that piece on "styledash"), best get used to it. Fashions are changing.

[kneehighs]

^ I agree. I think a realistic aim for our community right now is AWARENESS, as awareness (knowledge) must precede acceptance. The more aware more people become with regards to differences in fashion, the more tolerant society as a whole can become. But without knowledge, they don't know that there are men like us who want to wear heels. And who can blame them? For many of us felt like we were the only one's who wore high heels until we found hhplace... Like many people before her, Annie Wu was probably unaware that there were men who were interested in wearing high heels. One of the common exclamations I hear from strangers I've met is "I've never heard of that before." But when I've met strangers in Real Life who have already met or heard of men who wear high heels, their response has been unanimously positive. That includes an investment banker, a fashion boutique owner, and a backstage TV technician. In each case, they were supportive of men wearing stilettos, let alone the chunky heel many aspire to. I believe we really live in a world RIPE for acceptance. There are kids growing up with two gay parents, kids growing up transgendered with full suport of their friends and family, and even a special school in California dedicated to gender expression diversity. With special laws in place to protect gender identity and gender expression in many jurisdictions throughout the U.S. and the world, the only thing stopping us from creating more acceptance is ourselves. Awareness, tolerance, and acceptance are all noble aspirations, but at this stage in history we must do our part in obtaining them--lest we die without seeing our dream come true. That means de-closeting ourselves and going out in public in high heels. That could also mean talking about heels for men. Recently in the United States, Congress proposed a gender hate crimes bill. How opportune for someone like myself to talk about men in heels, which I've done. Anyone who is supportive of that bill will most likely be supportive of men who wear high heels. It would be nice to meet Annie Wu in person. Or any other people that have read of men in heels online, but never met a man in Real Life that wears high heels. I think we'd change some minds.

[Katrina]

While I wouldn't say that the style is great, I like it when people push the gender barriers. I cannot believe how closed-minded those comments were.

[EdwardianEra]

God, those comments remind me of a number of the students that I go to school with....

8. Wat the crap i thought it couldnt get worse this just takes it to the next level!!! BOYZ DONT WEAR THAT CRAP its just not right. Like wat if girls wore baggy shorts a white beter and sagged? NOT RIGHT PPL!!!! Get your heads straight before u try to make a fashion statement! katie

Girl, learn to spell. You might sound the slightest bit more mature if you knew how to string a sentence together. And I suppose any of your fashion statements, however stereotypical they may be, are more valid than ours? So your fashion view is that boys are only allowed to wear baggy pimp jeans with the crotch around their knees, and those way-too-wide skate shoes?

9. Those are the most stupidest things i have ever saw....they make the guy look realllllyyyyy really gay...no offene to the dude in the picture...he probably got alot of money to do that... swurlzz

If you mean no offense, why do you aim to offend? Again, the errors in common English in your post lead me to seriously doubt you possess any intelligence or maturity.

However, the whole image portrayed by the model, sadly, is stereotypical. The way-skinny, feminine-looking man, and the androgynousness of the clothes (except the "over-the-top" heels), unfortunately are all so-called "typical gay man" views that have been ingrained into the minds of today's society, even if they are not true most of the time.

If designers would start a little more realistically, maybe public acceptance would come faster. Then again, who knows? Public acceptance could take just as long either way; no one can predict the future.

Waiting on the world to change,

-EdwardianEra

[Alexis Hill]

First, I dislike the term meels. Second, the lack of intelligence from most those comments are just sad.

[DandyDude]

Considering the direction this thread has taken, I say it belongs in the gender forum. All the gushing about how some here wish to be identified as trannies does not help the drive to make men's heel wearing into a style, not a symptom of something the DSM would have as a topic. I don't approve of "hate crime" laws, especially protecting those who abuse children by allowing them to believe they are not their bodily sex, but something concocted out of their own innocence in the actual meaning of male and female. I repudiate those who want children reading these boards to think they are not what they are, but something concocted out of the alleged minds of adult crazies. Again...to the gender board with this topic ASAP!!!! "Gender expression." Yeah, right...

[Fog]

God, those comments remind me of a number of the students that I go to school with....

If you mean no offense, why do you aim to offend? Again, the errors in common English in your post lead me to seriously doubt you possess any intelligence or maturity.

-EdwardianEra

Dear EdwardianEra - I agree with your points about using the English Language, but you undermined your point a little by splitting the infinitive. Apologies for my pedantry, but you attacked people's use of English.

[gwl1]

Originally Posted by EdwardianEra God, those comments remind me of a number of the students that I go to school with.... And a preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with... (get it?) heh, heh...but anyway I agree that the women who commented on the outfit certainly lacked any writing ability, as well as tolerance. GWL

[Dr. Shoe]

I don't approve of "hate crime" laws, especially protecting those who abuse children by allowing them to believe they are not their bodily sex, but something concocted out of their own innocence in the actual meaning of male and female. I repudiate those who want children reading these boards to think they are not what they are, but something concocted out of the alleged minds of adult crazies.

Again...to the gender board with this topic ASAP!!!!

"Gender expression." Yeah, right...

This just shows how totally ignorant you are!

Transgenderism has NOTHING to do with being a paedophile and TS is absolutely no excuse and it would be a particularly stupid judge to allow that as a defence at all.

A TS is no more likely to be a paedo than a rednecked moron like you!

Can we get this thread back on topic, it's about FASHION, not about gender expression.

[DandyDude]

Dr. Shoe: "Rednecked Moron," huh? Sorry Charlie, wrong number. The "child abusers" I mentioned were not trannies specifically. There ARE trannies who advocate child abuse, one very well known person who advocates genital mutilation for confused children has pages and pages of fellow mutilates on a website. That person is a child abuser. That was what I was talking about in the debate with "The Original Susan" awhile back. I don't want to be associated with child abusers. There is more than one kind of child abuse, and telling children they are not what sex they are is the most vile. I wasn't even talking about paedophilia, find something that says I was before you attack me next time, please! I wasn't even talking specifically about trannies abusing children. I was talking about the people who are setting up schools to encourage transsexuality. I wes talking about those who encourage children to believe they can change their sex in any way what so ever! A better generalisation would be those who follow the Popperian culture, those who are idealistic and believe the mind is more important than the body, as a separate entity of course. On USAmerican television recently, Barbara Walters had a special about tranny children. Who decided to allow children to believe they are something other than what they are? Children think that the diffeence between male and female is that females wear dresses and have long hair and males don't. That is the extent of their thoughts on the matter! Who the are adults to come along and, instead of telling them the truth, accomodate their ignorance and even encourage it? Those are not trannies, but social worker types. They harm those children by indulging them in their ignorance. Again: I wasn't talking about paedophilia. There is more than one type of child abuse. I never ipso facto connected trannies with child abuse of any kind. I DO say that spewing the drivel about "being trapped in the wrong body" is abuse. If adults wish to believe they can change their sex, or that they are "trapped in the wrong body," that is their problem. Transmitting it to children who don't KNOW reality is another. I also don't wish to be lumped in with the gender crowd, as I am NOT "TG" or whatever the psychs and their snivelling allies say this week. If you hadn't attacked me, on a strawman I might add, I wouldn't have continued on this thread. It ought to be in the tranny forum because of the direction it's taken, not here in the "guys" forum. I also don't think a mod on this board should be engaging in ad hominem attacks such as you did by calling me a "redneck moron," based on a strawman yet. What's funny/somewhat ironic is that I agree with your last sentence. That was my basic point.

[DandyDude]

...and another thing. When you quoted me, you highlighted a part of it. The quote had nothing to do with paedophilia, which iwould be obvious to most.

[Dr. Shoe]

Dr. Shoe:

"Rednecked Moron," huh? Sorry Charlie, wrong number. The "child abusers" I mentioned were not trannies specifically. There ARE trannies who advocate child abuse, one very well known person who advocates genital mutilation for confused children has pages and pages of fellow mutilates on a website. That person is a child abuser. That was what I was talking about in the debate with "The Original Susan" awhile back. I don't want to be associated with child abusers.

There is more than one kind of child abuse, and telling children they are not what sex they are is the most vile. I wasn't even talking about paedophilia, find something that says I was before you attack me next time, please! I wasn't even talking specifically about trannies abusing children. I was talking about the people who are setting up schools to encourage transsexuality. I wes talking about those who encourage children to believe they can change their sex in any way what so ever! A better generalisation would be those who follow the Popperian culture, those who are idealistic and believe the mind is more important than the body, as a separate entity of course.

On USAmerican television recently, Barbara Walters had a special about tranny children. Who decided to allow children to believe they are something other than what they are? Children think that the diffeence between male and female is that females wear dresses and have long hair and males don't. That is the extent of their thoughts on the matter! Who the are adults to come along and, instead of telling them the truth, accomodate their ignorance and even encourage it? Those are not trannies, but social worker types. They harm those children by indulging them in their ignorance.

Again: I wasn't talking about paedophilia. There is more than one type of child abuse. I never ipso facto connected trannies with child abuse of any kind. I DO say that spewing the drivel about "being trapped in the wrong body" is abuse. If adults wish to believe they can change their sex, or that they are "trapped in the wrong body," that is their problem. Transmitting it to children who don't KNOW reality is another. I also don't wish to be lumped in with the gender crowd, as I am NOT "TG" or whatever the psychs and their snivelling allies say this week.

If you hadn't attacked me, on a strawman I might add, I wouldn't have continued on this thread. It ought to be in the tranny forum because of the direction it's taken, not here in the "guys" forum. I also don't think a mod on this board should be engaging in ad hominem attacks such as you did by calling me a "redneck moron," based on a strawman yet.

What's funny/somewhat ironic is that I agree with your last sentence. That was my basic point.

Actually I was so angry about what I thought I was reading that I didn't do what I normally do an go away and think about my reply. I misconstrued what you were saying and thought that you meant that some paedophiles are using their own transexuality as an excuse for their wrong doing.

I misread your post and I apologise for my response and if you want I will go back and edit it. Sorry!

Actaully I agree with you most wholeheartedly. I am of the belief that most transexuals are not transexuals at all but transvestites who have taken their lifestyle to the extreme and many more are actually bigendered like me and that has nothing to do with physical gender either.

Many adult "transexuals" kid themselves (and others) that they had the "feelings" as long as they can remember. This is hard to repudiate and so therefore no one can prove that they didn't, often even the subject's parents will say that they cannot recall any incidences where the subject displayed any behaviour irrelevant to their gender. After they've told enough people en-route to their goal they start to believe it themselve thus fuelling their obsession to the point where they start to self-prescribe controlled drugs associated with gender therapy and seek medical interventions on a private basis. Many have not even done a "real life test" or have cheated on it.

Some kids go through a phase where they feel like a member of the opposite gender or worry that they might be gay. This is usually a precursor to puberty or during the early stages of it but this phase usually fades within a year but occassionally persists and so you end up with a teen-age gender dysphoric.

Some very young children are also confused about gender. As you quite rightly pointed out, kids of that age don't even know that there is a biological difference between boys and girls and that gender is more or less optional. Small children don't identify as either gender except by observation, that's a girl/lady because she's got long hair and a dress, that's a boy/man because he's got short hair and is wearing trousers.

The problem arises when you have girls wearing jeans and boys who have gone into the dressing up box and put on a dress, but the kid rationalises all that by thinking that gender is optional.

But what about parental input? Suppose the mother catches her 2 year old crying or playing with dolls and says: "You're such a sissy!" that's OK because Sissy indicates male gender like Tomboy indicates female gender. If the mother says: "you're such a girl!" the kid will believe what the mother says (when has she ever lied to him?it's a survival instinct you listen to your mother and do what she says). The kid will then think that they're a girl and live his days right up to the first day at school thinking that he's a girl. until the boys and girls are separated by the teacher, suddenly he's "gender dysphoric"!

As Gender Dysphoria is a self diagnosed condition how can people even think of putting a small child in a special school for gender dysphorics? Sounds like a parent living their own fantasy by proxy to me!

[Dr. Shoe]

Now can we PLEASE get this thread back on topic or do I close it?

[thedesigner]

Hmm i thought we were all pro mens heels and all promotion of such was a good thing. Do we need this bitching? I think the pic's ok, i wear mega skinny jeans with heels when out with soulmate (skinnier legs than her which she wont let me show uncovered). I'd be happy to do bows if they became fashion (for m or f). But there again it's because I like the look to be complementary. Be true to yourself, in mainstream womens and mens fashion, peoples tastes are different.On GMTV today they stopped a member of the public and admired the style of clothes = a mixture of designer and budget. They said the best fashion is setting your own style and not being dictated to - so be proud everyone!!

[kneehighs]

Here is another forum discussion about men wearing high heels