kneehighs Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Any speakers of: portugese french german dutch italian polish Perhaps you'd be interested in posting a translation of the definition of Freestyle Fashion as found in the english version of Wikipedia? Fashion Freestylers blur strict gender lines of socially constructed dress codes through the wearing of one or two items of clothing of the opposite sex while still retaining their original birth sex appearance. Fashion freestylers are usually men. The prime example of fashion freestyling is a man wearing high heels but still appearing as a man. Historically, men have fashion freestyled since they grew their hair long and began wearing earrings. Such fashion freestyling is more readily apparent in major metropolitan areas like New York City and Los Angeles, but its influence is spreading throughout more rural areas as well. An example of a man fashion freestyling would be a man who is wearing a shrunken blazer, boot cut jeans, and high heel pumps. The whole is a man, but one part of it is a woman. Most significantly, fashion freestylers do not emulate the mannerisms of women, do not create and name a new "feminine" identity, and do not try to "pass" as women. Fashion freestyle is a term that originated in England in 2001. With the growth of the internet, its use has become internationally accepted as a term that describes a unique mindset of a small minority of men worldwide. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeHeels Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I can help with the dutch translation BeHeels --- Going up, up ... --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thanks alot BeHeels! Anyone else? Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sscotty727 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Fashion Freestylers blur strict gender lines of socially constructed dress codes through the wearing of one or two items of clothing of the opposite sex while still retaining their original birth sex appearance. Fashion freestylers are usually men. The prime example of fashion freestyling is a man wearing high heels but still appearing as a man. Historically, men have fashion freestyled since they grew their hair long and began wearing earrings. Such fashion freestyling is more readily apparent in major metropolitan areas like New York City and Los Angeles, but its influence is spreading throughout more rural areas as well. An example of a man fashion freestyling would be a man who is wearing a shrunken blazer, boot cut jeans, and high heel pumps. The whole is a man, but one part of it is a woman. Most significantly, fashion freestylers do not emulate the mannerisms of women, do not create and name a new "feminine" identity, and do not try to "pass" as women. Fashion freestyle is a term that originated in England in 2001. With the growth of the internet, its use has become internationally accepted as a term that describes a unique mindset of a small minority of men worldwide. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "wearing of one or more items of clothing of the opposite sex". In the stated example "An example of a man fashion freestyling would be a man who is wearing a shrunken blazer, boot cut jeans, and high heel pumps." 3 items are listed. The suggestion by saying one or two is that anything over two doesn't count. Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "wearing of one or more items of clothing of the opposite sex". In the stated example "An example of a man fashion freestyling would be a man who is wearing a shrunken blazer, boot cut jeans, and high heel pumps." 3 items are listed. The suggestion by saying one or two is that anything over two doesn't count. Scotty Yeah you have a point for sure. But one or more? How many is more before it becomes crossdressing and an outright femme persona in they eyes of the knee jerk reactive general public? One or "more" could include crossdressing and that is what i was trying to exclude. The goal is to create our own independent breed of fashion mavericks. Maybe that wouldn't happen, maybe it would. I'll change the definition though if there enough reasons to do so. I totally see your point. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sscotty727 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Easy. The last part of the sentence covers it..... "while still retaining their original birth sex appearance. " That line alone removes true cross-dressers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Easy. The last part of the sentence covers it..... "while still retaining their original birth sex appearance. " That line alone removes true cross-dressers. Changed. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 With that said, can we steer this thread back to the original post? In the How to use the right words to advance the cause thread I posted this def for discussion. Are there any other foreign language speakers here? Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootish Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I translated it into German - using a bit freestyling. Any German member may read, review and change it. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashion_freestyle What about the Englisch term? I did not find it in the English wikipedia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raccoon Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 The English version is called freestyle fashion. Anyway, I think freestyle fashion is a contradiction in terms. Fashion is about things that large groups of people do and copying that, for the sake of copying. Freestyling, by contrast, is the choice to ignore fashion, not to change it. Calling it freestyle dressing would be more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I translated it into German - using a bit freestyling. Any German member may read, review and change it. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashion_freestyle What about the Englisch term? I did not find it in the English wikipedia? Thank you, bootish! IMHO your translation is quite well. No need for an own translation liebe Grüße micha PS: die Formulierung "es breitet sich langsam auf die breite Masse aus" empfinde ich als ungeschickt. Besser fände ich "Immer mehr Männer trauen sich, dieselbe Mode wie Frauen zu tragen". Oder wenigstens "es breitet sich langsam in der breiten Masse aus". Das "auf" stösst mir sauer auf. Halte mich bitte nicht für kleinlich, aber Wikipedia verdient es, sich mit dem 20-bändigen Brockhaus zu messen! The best fashion is your own fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 The English version is called freestyle fashion. Anyway, I think freestyle fashion is a contradiction in terms. Fashion is about things that large groups of people do and copying that, for the sake of copying. Freestyling, by contrast, is the choice to ignore fashion, not to change it. Calling it freestyle dressing would be more appropriate. That was insightful. It also assumes that Fashion and Freestyling can't co-exist. Or that fashion and freestyle are mutually exclusive. It also assumes that ignoring one part of fashion equates with ignoring fashion as a whole. By assuming the latter two, it also re-inforces negative stereotypical limitations that fashion and freestyling are mutually exclusive. It re-inforces that Fashion Freestylers can't be an accepted alternative sub-culture of mainstream fashion. It re-inforces steretypical limitations that socially constructed symbols of femininity (heels) can't co-exist with socially constructed symbols of masculinity (other parts of the outfit). Ignoring one tree of fashion (socially constucted gender restrictions) doesn't equate to ignoring the whole forest: there is the tree of skinny jeans, the tree of distressed jeans, the tree of form fitting shirts, the trees of coats, scarfs, sweaters, and any possible combination thereof. softgrey who is the epitome of fashion at the Fashion Spot doesn't wear denim like the large sums of Sex and the City copycats in NYC. Yet she is still revered as a fashion icon. The copying for large masses of people is more accurately described as a "trend". If fashion is like music and we have alternative music and alternative music has sub-genres, then we can also have the alternative fashion sub-genre of Freestyle Fashion. Freestyle Fashion is also empirically accepted. The definition has been adopted by people outside of the male street heeling community, proving its acceptance by mainstream culture. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavio Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 After a short time out of the forum due to end of the year in the company (what a hurry guys...) I'm back. As kneehighs already knows, the portuguese version of wikipedia Freestyle fashion is done. DeSalto and Kennard, please help us checking what I wrote there and making corrections if necessary. Flavio - Brazilian heel lover, now in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavio Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I don't know what's happenning and if you all noticed... I couldn't find the freestyle fashion article in wikipedia anymore in any language... maybe it has been deleted by the people that checks the articles in the wikipedia. Any of you know anything about it? Kneehighs? Flavio - Brazilian heel lover, now in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Its there in english. It might not ever have even been posted yet in spanish as pam is a little busy. I think in German and Dutch its Fashion Freestyle. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I don't know what's happenning and if you all noticed... I couldn't find the freestyle fashion article in wikipedia anymore in any language... maybe it has been deleted by the people that checks the articles in the wikipedia. Any of you know anything about it? Kneehighs? Hi Flavio, the english and the german wikipedia websites about "freestyle fashion" are still in the web. If the selforganized world wide wikipedia community should delete contributions secretely, I would loose any believe in the internet. Wasn't it simply your mistake? As chinese guy I would distrust my own government and their internet censorship. But I can't believe in an internet censorship of the brazilian government. At least not concerning high heels wearing guys! The best fashion is your own fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavio Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Sorry everybody, it was my mistake!!! LOL The term is there, I just inverted the words in my search from fashion frestyle to freestyle fashion. I was amazed that the description is now full of links to other terms in the portuguese wikipedia. Flavio - Brazilian heel lover, now in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneehighs Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Okay we still need: Polish French Italian Once I can find someone to get these done, then I will create a post with links to each language. Others here have been very helpful and I don't think I speak just for myself, but for others too that those efforts are appreciated. Feminine Style . Masculine Soul. Skin In The Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegant Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Okay we still need: Polish OK, I'm on it! What is good for a goose, can be good for any gender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey S. Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi! Hm, I think I should check with the forum more often although I'm very busy at the moment. Someone was faster and already did the job of translating. But I think I do have to jump in here. Thank you, bootish! IMHO your translation is quite well. No need for an own translation liebe Grüße micha PS: die Formulierung "es breitet sich langsam auf die breite Masse aus" empfinde ich als ungeschickt. Besser fände ich "Immer mehr Männer trauen sich, dieselbe Mode wie Frauen zu tragen". Oder wenigstens "es breitet sich langsam in der breiten Masse aus". Das "auf" stösst mir sauer auf. Halte mich bitte nicht für kleinlich, aber Wikipedia verdient es, sich mit dem 20-bändigen Brockhaus zu messen! Basically, I'm fine with this as well but I want to make a proposal for what I think needs to be changed. The sentence: 'Fashion Freestyler versuchen nicht, ihr Geschlecht als solches zu verändern. Sie kopieren keine Verhaltensweisen des anderen Geschlechts, versuchen keine andersgeschlechtliche Identität wahrzunehmen oder gar als ein anderes Geschlecht aufzutreten. (Im Gegensatz dazu siehe Cross-Dressing.)' should read IMHO: 'Fashion Freestyler versuchen nicht, ihr Geschlecht als solches zu verändern. Sie kopieren keine Verhaltensweisen des anderen Geschlechts, versuchen keine andersgeschlechtliche Identität anzunehmen oder gar als ein anderes Geschlecht aufzutreten. (Im Gegensatz dazu siehe Cross-Dressing.) instead. Secondly: '..., aber es breitet sich langsam auch auf die breite Masse aus.' could read: '..., aber es finden sich dafür auch immer mehr Anhänger in der breiten Masse.' Agreed? CU! -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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