Wheel Clampers

[Francis]

How many of you have been subject to the vultures calling themselves Wheel Clampers? I had the unfortunate honour of having my vehicle graced with the wondrous sight of a large yellow plate with a dirty great chain festooned upon my wheel. The clamper had not taken any time to check if my vehicle had permission to park there, which it did. He simply drove in, spotted a car he was unfamiliar with, clamped it and drove off without even checking with anyone or checking any other vehicles. Result : I was rather peeved, to put it extremely mildly, and proceeded to phone the company only to be greeted by a mobile phone redirection culminating in a voicemail message. My furiousity grew at this point where I was going to call a friend out with his cutters to chop the chain off and then chop the entire appartus into scrap, but my logical side intervened and I resorted to phoning my mother, as I had absolutely no funds available. She was furnished with the details and she rang to pay by card only to be told that their card machine was offline and the payment would have to done by cash on site, how typical! Once the payment was secured, the company was informed and we sat and waited, waited, waited some more, waited until frozen. Really pissed off, the company was rung again and told that if they didn't arrive within the next 5 minutes to remove the clamp, then the police would be called to remove it as 45 minutes waiting was clearly unacceptable. My wife had just pressed the call button to the police when he arrived. He passed me a receipt for the £75 release fee. I immediately noticed that the receipt had been filled in long before he left the office, stating a 5.30pm release time. I told him to amend that to the correct time of 5.50pm and while he was at it, to amend the reference number on the receipt as it was incorrect as well. Maybe I should have got the wife to complete that call, maybe they could have checked to see if this guy had a clamper license, because all this sounded to much like they were cowboys and didn't care whether you had a permit, permission or even wher you were parked (they have clamped people on the public highway before now and it's not their place). Plus, they don't accept payment unless it's in cash when their notice boards clearly state otherwise. Wheel clampers should be lined up and shot for their cavalier attitude and complete disrespect of people and property. They scratched and dented my car and my tracking has shifted, but I can't claim for damage caused apparently These self proclaimed saviours of the car parks should be banned. Personally, if I see that clamper again I am going to produce the rather large axe that lives in the boot of my car and reduce his vehicle to scrap. I may get into trouble for it, but, hey, someone has to do someone even if to highlight the problem of these 'twats'.

[dr1819]

I'm sorry to hear of your clamping! Ugh! I had a thought - Isn't impeding the flow of traffic a ticketable offense in your neck of the woods? It is in mine! If it happens again, you may want to call the police to report an ongoing condition of illegal traffic impediment, then explained the situation when they arrived, which probably would have been very soon - they hate traffic impediments, as they only get worse, making their job quite tedious! They'll probably cut it for you, as most police cars also carry bolt cutters so they can cut through heavy chains during legally-authorized entries. And yes, your intention to move no longer classifies you as "parked" but "traffic." The cars in a traffic jam may not be moving, but their correct designation is not "parked," but rather, "traffic."

[hoverfly]

The clamper had not taken any time to check if my vehicle had permission to park there, which it did. He simply drove in, spotted a car he was unfamiliar with, clamped it and drove off without even checking with anyone or checking any other vehicles.

So to my understanding why then did you pay the fine? I would halved called the cops to be there to witness the whole event and mabye bust their balls if needed.

[taliheels]

wheel clamping is legalised mugging- i would NEVER pay a clamper, just get bolts and cut it off

[Dr. Shoe]

The problem is is that the police will not involve themselves unless a crime is committed. i.e. criminal damage to the wheelclamp by someone using bolt-croppers. The police actually dislike clampers as much as anyone else but are powerless to act, particularly if you're clamped on private property (including council owned property). The best solution is to live the car up onto a flat bed truck and make off with the vehicle clamp and all. You can then call the clampers and invite them to negotiate a fee for the return of their clamp (minus lock) and then get them to sign an affa davit (sp?) to absolve you of any further action in respect of criminal damage or theft. This is perfectly legal as law states that anything placed upon or appended to a motor vehicle becomes the property of the registered owner of the vehicle. The criminal damage thing only comes about because once you remove the clamp from your vehicle, ownership reverts to the clamper, even if you bung it in your boot (trunk) and drive off.

[Skirted-UK]

I always carry a large pair of bolt cutters in case I get locked in a port that I am working in.

[heelsRus]

The problem is is that the police will not involve themselves unless a crime is committed. i.e. criminal damage to the wheelclamp by someone using bolt-croppers. The police actually dislike clampers as much as anyone else but are powerless to act, particularly if you're clamped on private property (including council owned property).

The best solution is to live the car up onto a flat bed truck and make off with the vehicle clamp and all. You can then call the clampers and invite them to negotiate a fee for the return of their clamp (minus lock) and then get them to sign an affa davit (sp?) to absolve you of any further action in respect of criminal damage or theft.

This is perfectly legal as law states that anything placed upon or appended to a motor vehicle becomes the property of the registered owner of the vehicle. The criminal damage thing only comes about because once you remove the clamp from your vehicle, ownership reverts to the clamper, even if you bung it in your boot (trunk) and drive off.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but isn't clamping a LEGALLY parked vehicle a crime? A traffic crime, granted, but certainly worth causing them huge amounts of grief.

If you have proof and it's not too late...personally I'd go after them in the legal system and in the press. You could also go after them using the city - they have to have a license and if you lodge a formal complaint with the city they may not get the license next time 'round.

As for cutting the clamp off and it being a crime to take it - don't. Leave it on the street :-) If ownership reverts to them, then they can go pick it up :-) If challenged you can say that you thought it was some (obvious criminal types) that clamped your car illegally with the intention of coming back later to break into it and steal it. Since none of the legal clampers would do such a thing, it must have been an illegal act. And since the clamp wasn't yours, you wouldn't feel right in taking it. :-) Who could argue with that? Yeah, ok, any lawyer....

See about taking them to traffic court or small claims. That'll at least get your money back and their attention.

Good luck.

[dr1819]

The problem is is that the police will not involve themselves unless a crime is committed. i.e. criminal damage to the wheelclamp by someone using bolt-croppers. The police actually dislike clampers as much as anyone else but are powerless to act, particularly if you're clamped on private property (including council owned property).

The best solution is to live the car up onto a flat bed truck and make off with the vehicle clamp and all. You can then call the clampers and invite them to negotiate a fee for the return of their clamp (minus lock) and then get them to sign an affa davit (sp?) to absolve you of any further action in respect of criminal damage or theft.

This is perfectly legal as law states that anything placed upon or appended to a motor vehicle becomes the property of the registered owner of the vehicle. The criminal damage thing only comes about because once you remove the clamp from your vehicle, ownership reverts to the clamper, even if you bung it in your boot (trunk) and drive off.

[Dr. Shoe]

The problem is is that there will almost certainly be a sign advising that clamping is in force and if your vehicle is legally parked then it won't be clamped. These people have the law on their side and would argue that as you had parked illegally it would not have been unreasonable to expect you to assume that the clampers had done it and not criminals.

One way to avoid it is to put your own clamps on all your wheels!

You get done for the criminal damage to the lock or chain

Good luck.

[dr1819]

If you've alternative means of transportation, then you can always clamp the clamp. Get a REALLY big chain, one no ordinary bolt-cutters could ever cut through, and secure the clamp. Permanently. As said in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, naked force has resolved more conflicts in Earth's history than any other. The key is to discover the few avenues we have left to exercise force in our lives against thos who would squash us.

[ShockQueen]

Francis, There is no way on this green Earth I would have EVER paid that fee! If your car had legal permission to be there, then clearly the clamper was in the wrong - no two ways about it. I would have called the cops then and there since there was vandalism done to your car as a result of this act, and then get after them for damages. Giving in and paying the fee just lets them off the hook to go and do it again.......and again........and again, until people stand up to them and put a stop to it.

[Francis]

Well, I have checked with Trading Standards and they have informed me that they shall persue the matter as it is completely disgraceful that a registered wheel clamper did not consult the surrounding businesses to check whether the vehicle was legally parked. Because the clamper did not, we are legally entitled to our money back and compensation for the unnecessary amount of time taken to return to the vehicle once informed. I may not be able to get compensation for the damage though I have been told that their license will be reviewed with the understanding that they will be removed from the register and the various premises they patrol after numerous complaints over the same company. Plus some newly found friends have been throwing stuff at his car every time he goes round there Power to the People !!

[Dr. Shoe]

If you've alternative means of transportation, then you can always clamp the clamp.

Get a REALLY big chain, one no ordinary bolt-cutters could ever cut through, and secure the clamp.

Permanently.

As said in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, naked force has resolved more conflicts in Earth's history than any other.

The key is to discover the few avenues we have left to exercise force in our lives against thos who would squash us.

The problem is is that the clampers will then remove the car (in the same way as I suggested above) with a HIAB so it won't matter if the wheels are clamped or not.

In this case, you could always put a huge steel flywheel in the boot powered by an electric motor and spinning at the highest RPM possible. This way the gyroscopic force will prevent the car and so therefore the lorry from turning corners!

[dr1819]

You can always chain the car to something really big, like the sewage system. In one manhole, out the other. I've got a friend who runs an old Navy supply yard. He's got some chains that would do the trip. They're very strong (can support about 75,000 lbs), they're way to big for bolt cutters, and it would take a cutting torch about a day to hack through. The only problem is that they're both a bit expensive, and a little on the heavy side, like 240 lbs per link. Yeah, calling the cops is a better solution.

[ShockQueen]

HAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahaha! That's funny! I'd give anything to see the look on their face with that huge chain popping up out of the ground, going around the clamp, and then back into another hole. Can imagine the mother of all padlocks holding that sucker as well! By the by Francis, I'm very glad to hear you're getting at least some relief, and that the clamper has made some long-lasting friends on the neighborhood *evil grin*.

[dr1819]

As much as I disagree with the concept of civil disobedience, except in dire circumstances, I do believe in the concept of civil unrest, provided, and this is extremely important, that the cause of the civil unrest is clearly and undeniably communicated to both the powers that be (that gives them the opportunity for them to turn from the errors of their ways) as well as overarching media and other authority (this prevents the powers that be from hiding behind scapegoats, which they WILL make any time their power is usurped). Witness the Rodney King videotape. What Mr. King in the wrong, driving drunk, fleeing an officer's legal mandate to stop (flashing red lights, siren)? Absolutely. But was the videotape effective in convincing the outside community to become involved, putting severe pressure on the internal community (L.A.P.D.) to gut the rotting practices from it's ranks? Absolutely. How long it takes before the LAPD returns to its previous practices in full force is anyone's guess. The point is that if weren't for the videotape, the Rodney King thing would have been but a speck in the annuls of police history. The point here is that a thousand eggs thrown at clappers amounts to a mess. He's got your neighborhood dead to rights - vandalism, regardless of the reasons why. Put the word out. Next time someone is illegally clamped, take a picture, and get a letter from the store owner that the vehicle was LEGALLY parked here, why are the clampers ruining my business, hindering my employees, etc.? See the difference? A thousand eggs will never make a difference, except against your favor. By comparison, ten well-documented illegal clampings in your neighborhood WILL make a difference, and stand a good chance of getting the clamper barred altogether.

[dr1819]

Humorous anecdote:

I was doing some research on clamping in general and came across the following rather obscure report (from a friend). I've not been able to discover any cooborating evidence, so I'll just post the text:

For the third time in a month, Mr. Store Owner's vehicle was clamped in front of his own store. He had the city permit to park there, as it was a special parking spot reserved for store owners and employees, even though it was marked as "No Parking," but that was for everyone else. The city's rules were clear.

Mr. Store Owner followed the usual course of action. He called the police, but all they told him was that if his vehicle was clamped, there was nothing they could do, that it was a civil matter. He called the company that clamped his vehicle, but they told their only response would be to unclamp his vehicle after he'd paid the fine.

He then called his lawyer, who advised him that it was legal for wheel clampers to clamp vehicles they believed were violating city parking laws, and that if he wanted any successful legal resolution, he'd have to file suit in civil court against the clampers. Naturally, this would cost thousands of dollars, and take months to resolve, and the wheel clampers were relentless.

He even went so far as to type and sign a letter from his own store to the would-be clampers, giving specific permission for this vehicle to be parked in front of 1234 Main Street, Anytown, USA, signed and dated every day, but the clampers refused to listen.

The first time this happened, Mr. Store Owner grew tired of the problems and simply paid the $45 fine. The second time it happened, Mr. Store Owner exhausted his legal resources (costing him approximately $285), and after his vehicle had remained clamped in front of his own store for a week, he relented and paid the fine again.

The third time this happened, Mr. Store Owner got smart. First, he invited the City's Mayor out for a tour of his store and neighborhood, which boasted several improvements which the Mayor had deemed desirable to the city overall. The Mayor was impressed by how well the other store owners thought of Mr. Store Owner, and his improvements, not only to his own store, but to the entire block.

Then, the Mayor noticed the clamp on Mr. Store Owner's truck and asked, "one of your customers?"

Mr. Store Owner replied that it was not, but that it was his own truck, and that it was the third time this had happened. He pointed out the street signs, and the Mayor was well aware of the provision allowing store owners and employees to park in front of their own store, as he'd written it into law himself.

The Mayor took swift action. He wrote a letter, from the office of the Mayor to the clamping company, citing the circumstances, and requesting they "remand any and all sums of money improperly collected from Mr. Store Owner."

Unbelievably, the clamping company refused, alleging that it would "set a bad precedence."

The Mayor's second letter was clear and to the point, calling for the end of all clamping activities in his city. His next course of action was an emergency meeting of the city's elected officials. They passed a ban on the clamping effective immediately.

In response, the clamping company filed suit in county court alleging the city was violating it's rights to do business.

The city (an incorporated entity, as are most small towns in the US), responded by providing clear and unequivocable opinion as to why they believed the clamping company's actions were opposed to city policy. They included pictures of Mr. Store Owner's clamped truck outside his own store, as well as affadavits from several other store owners who'd suffered the same fate.

The country court ruled in favor of the city, and the clamping company's efforts in that city were rendered illegal. The clamping company appealed to the state, but the state court upheld the lower court's ruling.

The bottom line is that the clamping company was initially allowed to do business in the city, but when they overstepped the bounds of their authority, and refused to accede to the demands of the institution which granted them to do authority in their neck of the woods to begin with, they lost, probably forever, all rights of doing business in that city, period. Furthermore, as word spread around the county and throughout the state, they probably lost many other opportunities of doing business, as well.

I hate politics.

But by and large, it usually winds up serving the needs of the people, provided those people bring their concerns to the attention of the politicians on a regular and appropriate basis.

Francis, you're probably not going to get the Mayor (or equivalent) to come out, unless you're a civic leader as was Mr. Storefront Owner.

However, there are indeed things you can do, such as taking clearn and unambiguous pictures (clamp, vehicle, and parking signs), obtaining letters of affidavit from the storefront owners saying you shouldn't have been clamped, etc.

It's the PhD approach. Pile the documentary evidence against your opponent higher and deeper. Write them letters, sending it registered mail. If they respond, include it in your evidence. If they refuse, include that as well (it indicates aloofness, something most courts aren't happy with).

All in all, what I'm trying to say is that our legal system is here for our benefit. But we have to be willing to use it. Filing suit is one of the last, not the first, legal recourses we have at our disposal.

No lawyers were involved in the incident between Mr. Storefront Owner and the Clamping Company.

It took about five weeks, but look at the results!

You can have the same effect in your area, too.

The clamping company continued, however, and were

[Dr. Shoe]

What a lovely story. The problem is is the fact that it wouldn't happen here.

Firstly, the council sells parking permits and then authorises the clampers to enforce the system. Secondly, if you haven't paid for clamp removal within a certain period of time (usually either 6 or 12 hours) then they remove the car and impound it with an increased fee plus a daily storage charge. Thirdly, the council nor the police have any jurisdiction over clamping on private land.

My proposal is to start a new pressure group called C.L.A.M.P. the Coordinated League Against Motorist Persecution which could police unlicenced and illegal clamping.

What we do is to park a number of old bangers in a place where cowboy clampers operate and then when they clamp them, we come along with a couple of flat-bed lorries and a HIAB truck and lift them and cart them away clamp and all.

The point is is that clamps can cost as much as £150 each and if these people want them back then they have to pay a fine and then agree to sign a covenant promising to adhere to our code of conduct.

[dr1819]

Beautiful! Although I've a few friends in Montana who'd rather sit within a few hundred yards of the clamped vehicle and take potshots at the clamper's engine if he tried to collect... There's also the concept of "clamping the clamper." Just use chains larger than his bolt cutters.

[Dr. Shoe]

There have been cases of people blocking the clamper's vehicle with other cars. This is largely impractical because the other cars are now infringing the parking regulation in force and preventing someone going about their legitimate business leading to the police asking them to move on!

[dr1819]

There's always a citizen's arrest if the clamper illegally clamps your vehicle, but that also opens the liklihood for a lawsuit. Even if the clamper was in the wrong, you'd be preventing him from continuing to do his job. That costs money, and you could be held liable, plus damages, etc. Best approach is to document it heavily (pictures work well, especially video footage of you pointing out to the clamper that "the vehicle is legally parked, please unclamp it now or I'm calling the cops") and subsequent police action.

[Francis]

well, there has been good news and bad news Trading Standards have checked our case and the clamper involved has been fired but we still ain't getting our money back The surrounding businesses are being contacted with the details and are all now grouping to combat the problem as many of the owners and staffs vehicles have been clamped. Now the company has to check with all the businesses immediately surrounding the car park before attaching anything to the vehicle. Any breach of those conditions will immediately cause the police to come and remove the clamp and impound it. Even the police don't like these thieves, they are more than happy with the arrangements. I think one of their officers have been clamped by them somewhere along the line. Slowly, but surely, the systematic abuse of vehicle clampers will be stamped out. How they allowed the legalisation of these irresponsible vandals is beyond me, but a company charged with a contract to police certain areas with certain rules is then bound by those rules and an infringement consitutes a voiding of the contract. Therefore the clamping company should be made to pay for inconvenience caused and the clamper reprimanded. In my case, he was. Let's hope that his successor gets the same treatment when falling foul of the rules.

[ShockQueen]

Is there any way of filing a civil action against them for damages?....or would that cost more than the damage is worth? I'm sorry, but seeing them get off without paying anything monetarily is just wrong on so many levels. At least the stupid clamper got fired for his ill will actions. Perhaps he'll have better days in the unemployment lines.....getting his car peppered with things thrown at it all along the way!

[Francis]

well, let's hope that during his spell of unemployment that he gets his car clamped and then he'll know exactly how we felt. Revenge is a dish best served cold

[Dr. Shoe]

Small claims court will cost you about £20 which you can claim from them as costs.

[dr1819]

I just had to crack this nut because it was so dang funny... Francis - I hope you got your car back! Wheel clampers: stick it...! You clamp my wheels illegally you'll be out your clamps AND your dime!

[jmc]

Being from over here on this side of the "big puddle" I guess I really don't understand this "Wheel Clamping" thing, although it does sound despicable.

Let's say you run a small business and you use part of your property as a parking lot for your customers. You post a sign making a statement to this effect but some schlub parks his jalopy in your lot and then takes off for parts unknown.

I have no difficulty seeing the problem this presents. The aforementioned schlub is occupying space that was reserved for paying customers to your establishment. He is stealing from you. You have this immobile piece of metal displacing your customers.

Now if I read this thread correctly you can call a clamper who will attach a locking device to the wheel of the jalopy. The owner of said jalopy will have to pay a fine to the clamper to regain control of his vehicle. Supposedly this should deter the jalopy owner from parking illegally again as he will risk having to pay yet another fine. Am I correct so far?

Here's my problem (assuming my understanding is correct so far) -- after the clamper comes and does his dirty work you as the business owner still have an immobile piece of metal in your parking lot -- in fact it is even more immobile now than before. You might just as well have a great big boat anchor sitting there! Or maybe a huge concrete block! True, the jalopy owner should eventually perceive a need to have his "wheels" back and pay the fine but until that time your situation has not improved.

Over here we do things differently. (I had never heard of a wheel-clamper until I saw this thread. I had to look it up on the Internet.) Over here, you as the shop owner, would call a local wrecker service and that company would tow the jalopy out of your way. Said jalopy would wind up in an impound yard and the owner would have to pay the wrecker service towing expenses plus impound fees and would have to pay a fine to the local constabulary to get his jalopy back. This method may be just as despicable but as long as parking laws are clear there seems to be a lot less strife. And when the parking laws are not clear, well that's why we have a court system.

Now I will admit I live out in "the sticks", where space -- even parking space -- is plentiful. But in our big cities where parking space is at a premium, it is common to have an illegally parked vehicle towed away at the owner's expense, thereby freeing up the space it was occupying.

[Dr. Shoe]

Normally clamping precedes a tow. In our carpark outside they clamp you and then if you haven't contacted them to arrange payment within half an hour you get towed. Mostly you have four hours before getting towed. If you do get clamped, you are breaking the law if you cut it off the vehicle with bolt croppers etc. (criminal damage). However if you lift the car on to the back of a flatbed with a crane and then cart it away with the clamp still fixed they loose their clamp and have to pay £200 or so to replace it. You could offer to send it back to them as long as they sign a waiver absolving you of any criminal damage charge. It could be in the form of a letter asking you to cut it off the vehicle with expressed instructions on how this is done, if they've asked you to damage their property you can't be charged for it can you? I want to set up a pressure group called CLAMP, the Co-ordinated League Against Motorist Persecution which will campaign for greater regulation and CMB for all operatives, in effect legislating them out of existence. We also want to campaign for legislation concerning the siting of "safety" cameras.

[dr1819]

Interesting take, Dr. Shoe. Essentially they've attached their property to my property, and once I tow our property onto my real property (home/yard) any attempt by them to retrieve their property is trespassing... But aren't you also stealing by absconding with their property? "Ok, I'll take the misdemeanor, but when I return their property with my property I'll see that misdemeanor and raise them grand theft auto." Or aren't they committing a felony by removing your vehicle? Or is this simply something that's now allowed, having been legislated into law because it was "in the common good?"

[jmc]

I guess that clears things up. . .not. Although the "clamping precedes a tow" part does make sense.