Men and Women More Alike Than We Think

[bluetango]

Conventional thinking is that men and women are different - coming form different planets. According to recent research, the differences are actually none to slight.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/5721877.html

(You may have to open a free account to access the article.)

At the level of DNA, the differences are even smaller.

So, if we are so much alike, why can't male heel wearing be accepted?

Bluetango

[bluetango]

The "differences" between men and women are socially created structures. I suspect that, if left to our own, there would be little difference between male and female attire. A number of these socially created structures are the work of religions. Religions, not to knock anyone's faith, seem to take a strong interest in the reproductive activities of people. This is especially true of the more fundamenalist faiths (e.g., the Muslims). Another social force that creates differences between men and women is the fashion industry. The fashion industry spends billions on emphasizing the differences between sexes. By spending the bulk of its advertising money on women, industry exploits the conventional thinking that men and women are different. The reinforces the belief that there are big differences. What if advertisers of high heels showed both men and women wearing thier products? I wouldn't have a problem with that. Bluetango

[Dr. Shoe]

What a load of drivel!

OK, before I start I have to say that I believe in equality, men and women with the same qualifications doing the same job should get the same salary and opportunities for advancement.

Men and women are "wired" differently. For one thing women can multitask and men can turn shapes over in their head. Women shop and men buy. If anyone thinks that these are down to social conditioning think again!

Read Alan Pease: Why Men Never Listen And Women Can't Read Maps

From Amazon.co.uk

"Let's look at the thoughts, attitudes, and emotions, as they're experienced, in their very different ways, by men and women". This is one of Allan Pease's chirpy gear-changes in this provocatively titled book. Then he begins to ruminate: men and women live in the same world, but they experience it as if they came from two different worlds. Boys like things, girls like people. Every boy wants to be in a gang, and wants a gun; every girl has her best friend, with whom she shares her secrets. Men want status and power, women want love. It's amazing, he concludes, that they can ever live together. Well, yes, and that living together is a pretty fraught business, though he doesn't seem keen to go too deeply into that: this psychology, with its frequent allusions to research and its jokey little dramatisations, is upbeat feelgood stuff, which is why it's made him such a fortune on three continents. "Listen to this!" he'll say, then on comes an Aussie squabble, the woman berating a husband whose grunts proclaim the fact that he's not listening. But to sell four million copies of a book about body language--in 33 different languages--means Pease and his wife Barbara must be getting something right. There are many scientifically-documented facts about the difference between the sexes, and Pease is selling them with a smile to an ever-growing public. You may be a contented member of that public, or you may find your hackles rising. It takes all sorts! Betty Tadman

In short it all goes back to the Stone Age when women selected berries according to their ripeness instead of getting the first she came across, she cared for the kids, kept an eye out predators and stopped the fire from going out.

Men on the other hand would be single-mindedly stalking Zebra or something watching them carefully and calculating where he had to run, at what speed and how hard to throw his rock.

Women speak something like 15,000 words per day, men speak around 8,000. When he gets home at the end of the day she's got 7,000 left whereas he's already used his quota up so it's no wonder that all he can do is grunt while she gabbles on endlessly.

Men love anything to do with angles and speed (see the hunting scenario above) hence football, motorsports, computer games. Women love anything to do with comunication hence endless telephone conversations and careers where comunication is important such as teaching and counselling. Most (90%) of air traffic controllers are men, it isn't that they're biased it's just that it doesn't occur to most women to apply just as it doesn't occur to many men to go into counselling.

Men hate to ask for directions, not because they see it as a weakness it's just that they don't entirely take it in when they do, whereas, women do. On the other hand, men are excellent at giving directions and women are (usually) crap at it. The ideal scenario is for a woman to ask a man for directions.

[micha]

What a load of drivel!

OK, before I start I have to say that I believe in equality, men and women with the same qualifications doing the same job should get the same salary and opportunities for advancement.

Men and women are "wired" differently. For one thing women can multitask and men can turn shapes over in their head. Women shop and men buy. If anyone thinks that these are down to social conditioning think again!

Read Alan Pease: Why Men Never Listen And Women Can't Read Maps

From Amazon.co.uk

"Let's look at the thoughts, attitudes, and emotions, as they're experienced, in their very different ways, by men and women". This is one of Allan Pease's chirpy gear-changes in this provocatively titled book. Then he begins to ruminate: men and women live in the same world, but they experience it as if they came from two different worlds. Boys like things, girls like people. Every boy wants to be in a gang, and wants a gun; every girl has her best friend, with whom she shares her secrets. Men want status and power, women want love. It's amazing, he concludes, that they can ever live together. Well, yes, and that living together is a pretty fraught business, though he doesn't seem keen to go too deeply into that: this psychology, with its frequent allusions to research and its jokey little dramatisations, is upbeat feelgood stuff, which is why it's made him such a fortune on three continents. "Listen to this!" he'll say, then on comes an Aussie squabble, the woman berating a husband whose grunts proclaim the fact that he's not listening. But to sell four million copies of a book about body language--in 33 different languages--means Pease and his wife Barbara must be getting something right. There are many scientifically-documented facts about the difference between the sexes, and Pease is selling them with a smile to an ever-growing public. You may be a contented member of that public, or you may find your hackles rising. It takes all sorts! Betty Tadman

In short it all goes back to the Stone Age when women selected berries according to their ripeness instead of getting the first she came across, she cared for the kids, kept an eye out predators and stopped the fire from going out.

Men on the other hand would be single-mindedly stalking Zebra or something watching them carefully and calculating where he had to run, at what speed and how hard to throw his rock.

Women speak something like 15,000 words per day, men speak around 8,000. When he gets home at the end of the day she's got 7,000 left whereas he's already used his quota up so it's no wonder that all he can do is grunt while she gabbles on endlessly.

Men love anything to do with angles and speed (see the hunting scenario above) hence football, motorsports, computer games. Women love anything to do with comunication hence endless telephone conversations and careers where comunication is important such as teaching and counselling. Most (90%) of air traffic controllers are men, it isn't that they're biased it's just that it doesn't occur to most women to apply just as it doesn't occur to many men to go into counselling.

Men hate to ask for directions, not because they see it as a weakness it's just that they don't entirely take it in when they do, whereas, women do. On the other hand, men are excellent at giving directions and women are (usually) crap at it. The ideal scenario is for a woman to ask a man for directions.

Dr. Shoe, now you are disappointing me. What a load of prejudices!

My 18 years old niece Laura has just applied at Lufthansa for an education as jet pilot. Our next federal chancelor Angela Merkel has studied physics like me. I have never seen her wearing high heels but I do. And on a good day I'm speaking also 15000 words. Three years ago I scratched the car of my father - driving his car backwards into the narrow garage

Do you know Lynn Hill? A female american sport climber. Climbing in the highest degrees needs a lot of understanding of space, the dynamics of movement and orientation. Lynn Hill was the first woman who managed the same difficulties like the best male climbers (the eleventh degree on the UIAA scale). I'm glad if I'm successful in a route of the fifth degree

Forget the drivel of pompous psychologists!

nice greetings

micha

[bluetango]

Dr. Shoe, I am glad that I stimulated some exciting debate with this topic. You used 604 words in your response. You've only got 7396 left for today. Be careful. You may use up your manly allotment! Bluetango

[micha]

Dr. Shoe,

I am glad that I stimulated some exciting debate with this topic.

You used 604 words in your response. You've only got 7396 left for today. Be careful. You may use up your manly allotment!

Bluetango

He he !!!!!!!!!

[new_look]

i see both sides of the story, but being a logical calculator, i would put my statement into the fact that all men and all women are different in their own way where the world stereotypes and categorises people into what they do, that they look like how they act etc, it is all social conditioning. however if you take a moment to think, we are all different in many ways in the same that no two of men would be the same etc. I wear heels, im sure my mates and my dad dont etc. My gf wears heels but my ex gf hated heels. I rabble on 10 to the dozen where my gf is really quiet etc etc I think when we say the differences between 'men' and 'women' it wouldnt really make sense as the differences lie with the preference of the individual. daz

[heelsRus]

There are exceptions to every rule but the exceptions don't necessarily invalidate the rule.

There's a really interesting book called "The Borderlands of Science" and in one chapter it explains what, on first glance, you see. Not all men are 100% men and not all women are 100% women. And before someone goes off half-cocked, think about it. How many men do you know that fit the description (socially, physically, etc.) of "A Real Man". Same applies for women. Most people are a mixture, some with more female traits, some with more male traits. And it's irregardless of gender. So, saying that there's one or two (or even 1000) women out there in the big bad world that like physics doesn't mean that ALL women like physics or are even good at it. Most women are not good at, or have an interest in, renovation work, for example. Most men are not good at, or have an interest in, interior decoration. Some do of course. You can't discount the majority because you can find a minority.

What Dr. Shoe wrote/quoted is consistent with my experience of men and women, and what I have read. I don't tend to read a lot about this stuff because quite frankly I don't care about it that much. But ask MEN about colours and then ask WOMEN about colours and I'm sure you'll see a big different in the description of those colours. Men know what Makita Blue is but women will call it.... what, turquoise?

And to keep it on topic :-) ... there are quite a few men that like high heels but the majority of men in the population don't wear them (yet!). The majority of women will/do wear high heels but some don't.

[sscotty727]

A few years ago, there was this one women that worked on my project. She was vietnamese, barely 5 feet (if that), 100lbs or less and wore spiked platform heels year round (sandals, probably 8 inch but effective heel had to be atleast 5 inch). Anyway, she was the BEST programmer I ever worked with in my 20 years in the field. VERY sharp and smart and quiet. Hard worker. She was an electrical engineer prior to going into programming. She debugged microchips. Stereotypes can be misleading. Scotty

[BobHH]

Many or most men and women are the way they are because they have been raised since birth to be that way, dolls vs. machines or guns, fashion vs. cowboys, make-up to be sexually attractive to the male, etc. (at least in Western society), "manly" vs. "feminine." One thing that is very different, though, is that women are made to bring life into the world, and men seem determined to take life away. Maybe there would be less strife and war if women were running the countries.

[jmc]

Maybe there would be less strife and war if women were running the countries.

. . .not so sure about that. Ever seen women go after each other? It can be downright nasty!

[blackslide]

Men and women are wired differently. I recently was upset that our 3 year old grand daughter had only care bears and a toy stroller to play with. Three years old and she was being trained to be a mother already. I brought up some trucks and a bulldozer from the basment that my boys used to play with. She liked the truck, but put one of her bears in the dump bed and covered it with a blanket! What can you do?

[xaphod]

My parents were two opposites. Father .... Maths and Science ..... very practical Mother .... French, History and Latin .... very ethereal Just before she died, mum told me that although they were very much different they complemented each other, each allowing for the other's strength and weakness. With wistful eye, my mum said how much she admired the man, strong in body and daily practicalities, who had the breadth of personality to appreciate her skills and intelligence, to listen to what she had to say and attempt to understand what motivated her. She must have been lonely .... my dad died 28 years earlier and she never had another lover afterwards. Xa

[Dr. Shoe]

Of course there are exceptions. My first wife for example was a very good driver and could put a cortina estate in places most people wouldn't attempt park a mini. She therefore had very good spacial skills.

However, this is an exception to the rule, just as you have men who are very good counsellors you also have women who are very good fighter pilots. Alan Pease says that one woman in five goes against "stereotype" as someone put it and similarly one man in five has a more feminine type of brain.

We all did that brain sex questionaire last year didn't we? Most guys came out as having a masculine brain and most ladies came out with a feminine brain but some were "wrong" weren't they? This is exactly what Alan and Barbara Pease are talking about and exactly opposite to what this stupid woman with her "hypothesis" says!

I know there are some ladies who would love to be thought of as a man's equal and they are in my opinion, it's just that women are wired differently to men. It's not prejudice it is a clinically supported fact. A brain scan of a woman parallel parking shows that most women need to use far more brain power that a man would.

Most marriages and relationship problems that couples have arise out of the fact that men and women are different but try to act the same, this is why Ruth and I are so successful as a couple, we play to our strengths and abilities and so therefore we have no weaknesses.

Think about it. What motivates men and women? Men measure success by money and the trappings of wealth such as cars etc(the kill), women measure success by their relationships, the number of friends they have (the tribe). If a man has a problem at work they take it home, if a woman has a problem at home she takes it to work. This is not a hypothesis this is what is going on in millions of homes the world over!

[Dr. Shoe]

Dr. Shoe, now you are disappointing me. What a load of prejudices!

My 18 years old niece Laura has just applied at Lufthansa for an education as jet pilot. Our next federal chancelor Angela Merkel has studied physics like me. I have never seen her wearing high heels but I do. And on a good day I'm speaking also 15000 words. Three years ago I scratched the car of my father - driving his car backwards into the narrow garage

Do you know Lynn Hill? A female american sport climber. Climbing in the highest degrees needs a lot of understanding of space, the dynamics of movement and orientation. Lynn Hill was the first woman who managed the same difficulties like the best male climbers (the eleventh degree on the UIAA scale). I'm glad if I'm successful in a route of the fifth degree

Forget the drivel of pompous psychologists!

nice greetings

micha

Wasn't it the drivel of pompous psychologists that started this debate off in the first place?

[dr1819]

Men and women differ significantly and measurably, but not demonstrably. By that I simply mean that men and women, while genetically wired differently, are nevertheless very similar.

[Shafted]

It would only make sense that men and women are wired differently in order to compliment each other.

[Dr. Shoe]

It would only make sense that men and women are wired differently in order to compliment each other.

Exactly right. What's the point of teamwork if everyone in the team are the same.

[dr1819]

Conventional thinking is that men and women are different - coming form different planets. According to recent research, the differences are actually none to slight.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/5721877.html

(You may have to open a free account to access the article.)

At the level of DNA, the differences are even smaller.

So, if we are so much alike, why can't male heel wearing be accepted?

Bluetango

In a word, pure bunk.

Her study included only characteristics which we know are similar. It excluded characteristics which we know are different.

Her study was grossly, and I do mean GROSSly, flawed.

I'll echo Dr. Shoe's comment: "What a load of drivel!"

Decades and thousands of studies have proven time and again that, on average, males and females respond differently in different situations, beginning from diaper stage and beyond. 85% of all males think, dress, and feel like men as a whole, and 85% of all females think, dress, and feel like women as a whole. Only 15% of each sex exhibits any characteristics that fall into the camp of the opposite sex.

The fact that 15% of each sex exhibit behaviors, emotions, or ways of thinking which equate more appropriately with the opposite sex in no way undermines the fact that 85% of men and women are firmly planted within their own sexual boundaries.

As Dr. Shoe clearly mentioned, we're wired differently. It's even been measured in CAT scans, folks. "God made us, male and female." I think it takes a five year old child about 3 seconds to determine whether he's looking at a picture of a nude man or a nude woman, and he gets it right about 99% of the time.

Duh, wake up, people.

I think what's confusing us here is that there is a 15% of both men and women who identify more with the opposite gender than they do with themselves. Few of them ever explore their feelings, and even fewer crossdress, much less engage in transvestism or homosexuality. And an exceedingly small number ever take the plunge into transexualism.

Most of us who're in that 15% simply accept ourselves for who we are - people who're born of one sex, but tend to think, on average, like those of the opposite sex.

By today's definitions, I'm not gay. I'm not a transvestite. I barely qualify as a "crossdresser," and that's debatable! But I do test as having the same thoughts and feelings about things as do most females, about 65% on the Male-Female scale.

Yet I am a man, born one, and remain one. I'm attracted to girls, not guys. In a family setting I'm the one who tends to take charge. With few exceptions, I dress as a man, and have masculine behaviors and mannerisms. I write as a man.

I am a man, in every sense of the word.

But there are some out there who would tend to decry my manhood for no other reason than I enjoy wearing heels.

Women and men are indeed different, on many levels. He/she who contents otherwise is a very poor observer/student of humanity. Just visit any park, talk to people. Do the same at a pub, watch their mannerisms. Get to know people.

Statistically speaking, it's a bimodal representation with a 15% overlap. What doesn't overlap is quite different.

And this difference between the sexes isn't exhibited only among humans. We see it in the animal kingdom, as well, most notably among our closer cousins, the chimps and apes, but also among horse, cattle, birds, reptiles, spiders, and insects.

Except for bacteria, folks, that pretty much covers the billions of organisms here on this Earth.

Females and Males are different.

[dr1819]

Men and women are wired differently. I recently was upset that our 3 year old grand daughter had only care bears and a toy stroller to play with. Three years old and she was being trained to be a mother already. I brought up some trucks and a bulldozer from the basment that my boys used to play with. She liked the truck, but put one of her bears in the dump bed and covered it with a blanket! What can you do?

Love her! That's who she is - a little girl.