What do women think about men in high heels?

[azraelle]

I hope you don't mind if I respectfully disagree with you Hoverfly. There's more to life than wearing heels... Life is full of many aisles; sometimes you have to change your seat. Put another way, life is full of addictions; it may be possible to find a more acceptable one to your SO.

[ShockQueen]

Ah, but people are individuals for a reason, aren't we? One should not have to give up things "just to please their S.O.". That is a hollow relationship and one that is always in danger of falling out. A good relationship is one where both are open enough to accept each other for who they are without any modification necessary. If I had to choose between living my life the way I want to, and be single - or giving up my way of life in order to get someone INTO my life, then I would stay single. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about that as my wife is cool with me wearing heels, and has no complaints about it - and we've been married for FIVE years now! It CAN be done...you just have to wait for the right person to pop up in your life. _________________ "I'm clicking my ruby slippers three times, but my teleporter is BROKEN!" <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShockQueen on 2002-05-27 16:57 ]</font>

[hoverfly]

People have passions in life that is a very big part of there life. For some it is high heels. For others it's flying in a full size airplane. If I were to fly in the military and I enjoyed it, but my S/O could not put up with the fact at some time I could be in combat. Then she should be up front about it to decide whether to be able to be involved in such a relationship. Of course this is the same for some one wearing high heels as well. Either way it is a mater of acceptance and trust.

[Driver8]

It depends on what wearing high heels means to you. For some its important, but for others it's more important to follow the conditions set by those who claim unconditional love. Far from considering the appellation "unmanly" as an insult, as it was recently hurled, I take that as a compliment. "Manliness" is a tool of control used to shame men into opening doors and lifting heavy boxes, dying seven years early working grueling hours at dangerous jobs and never seeing their children grow, and going to the battle lines to get shot defending the financial interests of the wealthy. Heels represent my rejection of all that bullshit! <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Driver8 on 2002-05-28 06:19 ]</font>

[azraelle]

On 2002-05-28 06:18, Driver8 wrote:

Far from considering the appellation "unmanly" as an insult, as it was recently hurled, I take that as a compliment. "Manliness" is a tool of control used to shame men into opening doors and lifting heavy boxes, dying seven years early working grueling hours at dangerous jobs and never seeing their children grow, and going to the battle lines to get shot defending the financial interests of the wealthy. Heels represent my rejection of all that bullshit!

Thank You, you've voiced what I haven't been able to figure out about myself (in relation to my dad, especially) until now.

[Trolldeg]

Now, I know I'm probably going to get fried over this one, and be blamed for hating all women and so on, but I have to say it. Take a look at Susans text above, then exchange 'man in high heels' with 'black man' och 'jewish man', then you can see what it's all about. No, I'm not saying that Susan is a racist, but she has a cloesed mind regarding "untraditional clothing" on men. If you encountered a racist on a forum, most people would try to argue against that persons prejudice and close-mindedness, but we are not allowed to argue against Susans, because then we hate women or whatever. And no, I don't think that being unable to accept men wearing high heels is as bad as considering black people to be inferior, BUT, it's the principle I'm after. At least I want to open all the closed minds in the world, whehter they are prejudice towards other cultures or men wearing heels. Go ahead, flame me now.

[Firefox]

One could make the statement "If I encountered a man wearing a turban it would make me uncomfortable." Then one might get accused of racism or not respecting someone's religion. Anyway, heels are part of my religion so there you go. At the same time I understand that Susan's religion, convictions, mind-set, or whatever you want to call it, takes precisely the opposite view to mine with respect to the heels thing, so there isn't any point in us discussing it. We just have to grin, bear, and respect each others views as much as we can. OK, I'm grinning !

[DesertHeeler]

I think we are fighting very old and very basic and primitive behavior in trying to get women to accept men in high heels. The behavior we are fighting is the instinct for a woman to evaluate a man as a possible provider and protector, a basic animal instinct. How good would he be at protecting his family from predators and at hunting animals for food. Wearing high heels makes us seem less good in this respect, though those metal tipped stilettos would be a good close in weapon.

[viktoriaheels]

Personally I think there shouldn't be any difference between women and men sharing their fashions. Women dress like men a lot, why shouldn't it be the other way aroun? I share Laurie's view that I am not compelled to be attracted by a guy wearing high heels, but i wouldn't be offended meeting one and talking to him. We have to be a lot more openminded in these things. I don't have problems if men were even wearing skirts, but they should stay away from the short ones. Their legs are normally just ugly.

[ShockQueen]

You haven't seen too many men in skirts I take it. Not to toot my own horn, but I have been told by ladies that when in skirts, I have very nice legs. I think it comes from many moons of wearing heels - it trains the leg muscles better.

[terayon]

good opinions viktoria Susan...do you wear pants? or ties? if you did i could say you were being very "unfeminine" couldnt I? i wouldnt see why the shoes a person wears should make any different as to how they are percieved...maybe if they were wearing stiletto pumps or strappy sandals it would be very un masculine, but it wouldnt make them any less of a man....and if someone likes to wear chunky or wedge heels, i see NOTHING wrong with that....a high heel is mearly a piece of wood/rubber/plastic beneath our foot, yet to some it holds such a strong bearing on a persons sexuality....THAT is what i consider to be crazy

[hoverfly]

Quote: "It depends on what wearing high heels means to you. For some its important, but for others it's more important to follow the conditions set by those who claim unconditional love." Unconditional love? Yeah right. It dose not work that way in a adult relationship. It only exists in a parent child relationship. In an adult relationship it's a 50/50 deal. Half is a partnership where people have to work to gather in all aspects in a relationship. The other half is love, but not unconditional love.

[Susan (the original)]

Obviously no one paid ANY attention to the "text" of what I had written. (Talk about closed mindedness)!!!! Realities and truths are something that are avoided at all costs here. There are two issues, separate in thought, but connected by the same thread. My opinion of men wearing high heels is as it is. Like I said, if everyone else is entitled to an opinion so am I and no one's is of any more importance. Additionally in all the chatter no one, except possibly Firefox, remotely touched on the basis of my convictions. Next, what part of "from what I have experienced and witnessed" is so hard to understand? Absolutely everyone took the words I wrote, edited and twisted them to satisfy their own agenda, and no one touched on the correct meaning. Through that most of the replies here have only served to re-enforce my beliefs. Ok, you want me to be "open minded"! Here's the scenario. You notice me with friends in a restaurant. I'm dressed in a nice skirt, blouse, hair styled, and the very high heels. After dinner I leave my friends and walk to my car. It's a well lit reasonably occupied area. You're wearing your high heels and manner of dress of your preference and decide to approach me. (Remember you don't know who I am) Now, you tell me what's going to happen. Susan

[Driver8]

Looks like we'll have to consider the possibility that maybe some guys have more in their lives than the perpetual skirt chase! Egads, what stereotyping and sexism! Yes indeed, how will I ever hunt bear and drag it back to the cave while wearing my Manolos?

I'll tell you what -- how about you approach me in the parking lot? I demand to be treated by women as an equal, not a cartoon character with a pre-assigned role and preprogrammed responses. Any woman that can't treat me with the same depth and respect she affords other women is not worth any of my time.

[terayon]

what would happen? im sure you would over react and bust out your pepper spray and blind the innocent fashionable guy who was also walking to his car just because you thought he looked different...whats next? you gunna shoot ugly people? beat up people in wheelchairs? something is "different" and its bad?!!?!

[Firefox]

I'm intrigued... what would happen? I hope you two would say hello and compliment each other on your shoes. I can't imagine anything else. Have I missed something ?

[Dexter23]

Probely thas is stil the human way. to put everybody in a group.(hokje) and if you are just a bit off, you are strange and don't fit in.

[hoverfly]

The key word from Susan to me was "uncomfortable". But the way she wrote it may not have been what she actually intended. Or to get a responses to prove a point. But in that case it backfired and the responses she got in return was justified. It just not the wording that people responds to, it’s the feeling they feel after they halved read it. It’s seems Susan that your feelings about men wearing high heels is more clear to others than to you in your writing. I would expect for any women who see something totally unnatural to be uncomfortable. Especially when there is a male involved. How ever, if some man wearing high heels comes along I doubt any thing bad come of it. He is looking for acceptance than disapproval and is fully aware of what are the potential responses are. I got more funny looks form women than any thing else when the few times I have wore heels in public. No inquiries from them yet. But I am willing to share my options on the mater on a friendly fashion note no mater how unfriendly they might be. It’s just a man made object and I am going to alter it for me to use for what ever my reasons are. Now only if I can find some way to use a tampon!!!!

[ShockQueen]

The only strange looks I get these days are those of curiosity from the ladies at work wondering how I can walk so well in heels. I think the guys here have given up trying to figure me out already :smile:.

[Susan (the original)]

"one way or another you are going to have to deal with it an accept the facts as they are", one of the many comments made throughout this thread which carries the real message. I'll learn to like it or someone will make me wish I did. Now in the world of reality, only in a situation where I were "forced" (assaulted) would I have to "deal" with it and "accepting" it is not likely. On a more reasonable note, Firefox you're right on both counts. We'll agree to disagree, how and keep the convictions we carry, grin and bear it as best we can. Any exchange during a chance meeting might be short but there is no reasonable cause it shouldn't be civil. Hoverfly I don't believed anything backfired and many of the responses we received were anticipated. Interestingly it's what "wasn't said" in the posts and the one sided "prejudices" that shed most of the light. At least you tried to meet in the middle with some explanation which is appreciated. After all the up-roar referred to as discussion nothing has been changed. Yes Laurieheels, I took a breath and I'm laughing at it. Susan

[Driver8]

Don't let anyone pressure you into apologizing for something you never said.

[hoverfly]

Sigh.... I read enough from Susan that I am getting the impression of male bashing. She alone could possibly turn this discussion board into another war zone. I will not take any part of that at all. I don't think I will respond to any more comments from Susan unless she could tone it down a bit. I would also encourage every one else to do the same. She has made it very clear to every one about her position on men in high heels. The majority of men here are respectful of Susan's position and are very tolerant as well. Susan, could you please stop rubbing salt into each other's wounds. I don't think one sided prejudices is the correct answer have found here. Nobody tries to be one sided here. _________________ Hello, my name is Hoverfly. I am a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee!!! <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-06-06 01:03 ]</font>

[stilettos]

Of all the posts I've seen on this thread, Susan's appear to hit the nail right on the head with regards to what I think most women would feel about men in heels, especially the 40+ somethings. However there is a whole lot of difference between 3" block heels and the 5"+ stilleto styles that Susan wears and it's not clear what type of heels each poster has in mind when responding/posting etc... No surprise some of the postings become so hostile! <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: stilettos on 2002-06-08 00:36 ]</font>

[Susan (the original)]

For Hoverfly - In a sincere effort to bring some calm to this I ask that you, and everyone else, re-read my original post on 5-26 hearing "all" of the words with the meaning as they are written from a little woman's soft voice. What I wrote is true and honest. Please don't interpret this request as any kind of a challenge but only a gesture to satisfy a small request. As has been mentioned many times only the words are displayed on the screen with no audible knowledge of the persons tone of voice. The meanings change drastically. When I made the post I had no intention it would prompt the results it did. Unfortunately, as I already stated, it didn't come as a surprise. To Anonymous - Nearly everyone who responded to my posts twisted, altered, and edited "everything" I said to fit some agenda. My request of you is the same as your's of me, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT. OK? On a solemn and more serious note in the context of "you're going to have to deal with it and accept it" works both ways. The associated violence on women is real, does, and has happened. We'll let it end there if you like. When it's all said and done the readers of these forums can and will draw their own impressions. We can all only hope the words which are written are intrepreted as intented. Stilettos - You said a whole lot with just a few words that are likely very correct. Susan

[Driver8]

And why does every other post by Susan mention violence against women, as if disagreement on a bulletin board is in any way comparable to a punch in the stomach? What an insulting trivialization of a serious issue which has nothing at all to do with anything we discuss on this board! I just don't understand this thread at all. Can someone explain to me why, on a board run by a man who wears heels and never insults anyone, men who wear heels are being characterized as abusers?

[Francis]

it would appear that Susan has been on the receiving end of some 'real' abuse from someone who saw heels as a type of weapon against her. This is most likely the reason for her disdain for men who wear heels. I can respect that she will not change her mind on this point, but, Susan, can you please try and find the commonality to the discussions rather than as a platform for the anti-heelwearing men stance you have chosen. I know how a beaten woman thinks as my wife had been hospitalised on many occasions for the same reasons and I still want the guys head on a pole, but I shall save that for myself and not spread it all over the forum. As you said, if you were to read your posts in the 'little woman, soft tone' then it would have a different meaning, but even I don't use common everyday language to write my posts. In this way I can avoid misinterpretation and the consequential misunderstandings that would, no doubt, follow. I'm not going to turn this into a bashing of everyone, but if we redirect our attentions to the topic then we can all enjoy our shared interest which is that of high heels, whether worn by women, men or little green space aliens. Let's all talk about heels in their many manifestations and not the minority social outcasts that would harm others through this interest.

[stilettos]

Anonymous and Driver8, you have both missed Susan's point. A post written in a violent manner (eg use of CAPITALS etc...) to proclaim NON VIOLENCE!!! is not very consructive. And while you may not understand Susan's concerns about violence against women, I do as my sister lives in constant fear, though she want's to do the best for her family and stands by her husband. To Susan, I try to get my point across as best I can

[hoverfly]

Violence against women?!! Good grief!! Every body is in constant fear of their own lives. It's no different for any one else. Now don't get me wrong about women in other countries that don't have rights and are treated like second class citizens. But don't you think women are the only victims to violence? Men get abused as well. To tell you the truth it's by conmen sense that what Susan may be uncomfortable about might have been interrupted as a fear of such of a encounter that would turned into violence. Remember humans are animals as well, we have instincts we use every day that we are no longer aware of. In this case sensing fear of another person. I think what I read form Susan I interrupted as just unfounded and my response was more like women what is wrong with you? "The only thing we have to fear, is fear it's self." J.F.K.

[azraelle]

Maybe we should start a new thread about "What do men think about women wearing boxer shorts, or ties, or crewcuts, or ...?" Maybe another about "What do male heel wearers think about wife-beating, or rape"? I would think they would be rather more sensitive to the issue (as in "I'd like to choke the living sh** out of men that do it, but not before I've blown holes in both knee caps and sawed off....first") than "normal" men are. Siscilian justice ought to be alive and well in such cases! _________________ Hi-Heeled Boots, Bodysuits, and Back-Zipper Pants R wikkid-kool (on me, or U)! <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: azraelle on 2002-06-08 08:45 ]</font>

[azraelle]

There was a young (black) lady where I worked at the Nevada Test Site that was a victim of wife beating by her new husband (broken arm, etc) that I found out about quite a bit after the fact that got a couple of her female friends to help her move out very quickly one day. I told her that she should have come to me, or any of the other Male Radiation Control Techs, and we would have helped her to stay where she was (and "helped" HIM move out rather suddenly). She said she wanted him to remain breathing (air), which is why she didn't ask any of us--she KNEW what WE would have done to the *****, collectively, or individually.