rant rave

[Bubba136]

Yeah Dawn, I understand! (That's why Hertz is still No. 2)

[Mickey68]

To all moderators: Do you guys ever check the membership list from time to time? There is a person who is using up a lot of membership numbers & probably will never be a poster. He uses initals & always has a web site. He can join 4 to 5 times in one nite. Is there some way to get rid of him & prevent him & others like him from joining. Just an observation!! TOOTLES!!! Mickey68!

[Shafted]

I've noticed this too, and every web site he gives is more spam. Might want to check out this guy's ip address.

[jmc]

This is going to start off a little off-topic but I'll try to make it interesting: A while back I did some experimenting with speech-synthesis chips, back when they first started to appear. (For non-techies, this was in the eighties.) Now a lot of the early speech synthesizers (and most of the modern ones too) tend to make "mistakes" pronouncing regular, everyday speech. For instance, if one were to have a run-of-the-mill speech synthesizer read this post it would likely mis-pronounce a number of words. This is because the English language has far too many conflicting and completely arbitrary rules regarding spelling and pronunciation (but that is another issue). With concentration, one could understand the output from the synthesizers but there would be a few syllables pronounced incorrectly. Modern synthesizers are significantly more accurate because of advanced software but they still get a word wrong from time to time. One thing I noticed about even the early speech chips was they could "cuss like a stevedore". They never got a "four-letter" word wrong, regardless of the context. I guess that is because swear words are generally monosyllabic and quite phonetic. Some people believe that swearing is the mark of a small mind, I think it indicates the lack of thought -- because I've heard a lot of fairly intelligent people swear. If a dumb piece of silicon (literally a chunk of a rock, as in a computer chip) can swear then it does not take a whole lot of gray matter (brains) to do it. Further, modern society has become inured to swearing, we hear it so often that it has lost its "shock value". When Rhett Butler spoke his four-letter utterance at the end of "Gone With the Wind" in the Forties, movie-goers worldwide were shocked. In modern times, his word is positively mild -- in fact it really is not a "swear word" at all to most of us anymore. When the "shock value" wears off the only recourse is to "turn up the volume" in an attempt to regain it. This has gone through several cycles and that brings us to where we are now. Now some may call me a prude, some who know me better may even (correctly) call me a hypocrite as I do use the occasional four-letter word myself. But I do believe the use of such language should be avoided whenever possible, especially in "polite company". And in the presence of children it is simply unexcusable.

[heelsRus]

But I do believe the use of such language should be avoided whenever possible, especially in "polite company". And in the presence of children it is simply unexcusable.

Where I worked a couple years ago swearing was everywhere. The managers would swear (f this and f that, and this is s...). Then I went to a company in Toronto and no one (and I mean no one) swore. Everyone was polite and friendly. Want a shock?!

Then I came back here to a different company and _most_ people don't swear - the occasional one does.

If I were to draw a conclusion or correlation I'd say that at the first place stress was really high with people _always_ working. I would be logged into work at 10pm and there would be a few people on. Emails out at 3am. At the second place the pace was better and people more relaxed. And at the place I'm at now, the pace is still relaxed. So it may come down to stress, time-pressures, work environment, etc. It would be interesting to take some of those from the first place and plant them into the second or third and see how long it takes for a change to occur.

And yes, swearing in front of kids is a no-no. We've done fairly well in that regard and so have our friends. I have one friend that asks the kids to leave when he wants to let one loose :-)

[BlondeBimbo]

I guess I have confused and mixed feelings about swearing, for a start– is a word a swear word or not – it’s a completely arbitrary thing? For example in American one refers to an Ass – that is a Donkey as a swear word – albeit quite mild, in English this is meaningless! In English we use the term “Bollocks” - decidedly offensive today but actually this was Standard English up to the early 19th century – and unknown in American (as far as I know). And there again – how many of us use really offensive terms without knowing it? Many of us say “That is NAF” – we have forgotten that NAF is an acronym for Not available for f*****g, Similarly I understand the tem Bletherskate (I am really sorry for posting that) is actually still used in the USA – (from the song Maggie Lauder) – this is a seriously offensive Scottish term – basically a “bag of sh*t” – but rather more offensive! Perhaps the classic example is Penis, - meaning of course a tail (Remember your Latin class at this point?), then used ironically as a male member then becoming indecent and offensive through the dark ages, and yet it is now once again an acceptable term – although no longer used for tail! I remember as a child watching TV, when during an American show – one of the actors referred to someone’s “Fanny” - But NOT as the abbreviation for Frances! – Well my Mum and Dad went berserk – Obviously – the TV was turned off – I was sent to bed, there were letters to the papers, absolute outrage – How could the local TV station allow such offensive terms at any time of the day? Etc. So why should such arbitrary things offend us? In reality perhaps it is the meaning behind the words used rather than the words themselves. I worked with someone a few years back who used the “F” word like a punctuation mark rather than a pause where a comma should be – there was a “F”, rather than an appropriate adverb, or adjective again it was a “F” – but the conversation flowed naturally – it was not offensive in any way! – Actually I did not see him as foul-mouthed at all – whereas often one hears just a few words used and rather than aiding the flow of speech – they are the verbs – or meaning behind the sentence – rather a different matter. I think that in time words like “F” and “C” will become acceptable – like penis, wagtail, tup, etc today – but as we stand today – they are not quite there yet! The whole point of communication it to get your point understood by the other person, it would be no use filling a sentence with words that would not be understood: When I talk with “senior managers” or highly educated people – I use elegant English. When dealing with foreign (non-native English) speakers etc. I use simple English. When dealing with “shop-floor” people who use colloquial terms – I use colloquial English. It is not a sign of being uneducated to use the appropriate form in the appropriate place. It would be however if one used the inappropriate form in the inappropriate place! That includes not demonstrating the appropriate form in the appropriate place in front of children – remembering they should not be exposed to the colloquial terms!! (But I would NEVER use the term “Fa**y” – If my Mum found out she would still kill me!) BB

[Shafted]

BB, I really like your take on this subject, but unfortunately we live in a world where people are just too uptight and are offended by little things. I also have respect for you that we should edit ourselves so to speak when in front of children. They will learn it without our help. If such words are spoken out of anger or hatred, that is when they are damaging to use. People have really gotten confused on the subject of swearing. Words in and of themselves are not swearing, but the context in which we use them can be. Some words truly are vulgar and perverse by themselves, but I find that these words are not used a great deal and only pop up as a response to things like bashing ones thumb with a hammer. I hope this doesn't offend anybody, but sometimes I find a foul explative to be an excellent painkiller. It's something we call venting.

[Dawn HH]

After hitting my thumb with a hammer, I usually say loudly, "YOU DUMMY, YOU KNOW BETTER", even though no one may be within earshot. I may swear inwardly, but I don't like to swear outwardly. Among people, when I feel a good swear coming on, I'll say, "RATZIN, FRATZIN, HICKIN LOOPER", which usually causes people to snicker and as far as I know, it hasn't offended anyone yet. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Adeana]

It's more for the 'shock value' or either something surprising happening, bad happening, making a pint, etc. It's when you use it day in and day out in every other sentence that I think it loses it's shock value and seems more like 'unrefined bad taste'.

[Dawn HH]

I quite agree with you, Adeana. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Puffer]

There have been some very interesting and sensible comments above on the use and acceptability of so-called 'swear-words'. Although we are all using English (of a sort!) there are naturally differences between the US and the UK, and indeed within the UK - as BB will be aware of words and usages that mean nothing to those like me in the south of England. Confusion (and amusement) so often arises when people on opposite sides of the Atlantic use words like 'fanny', 'ass', 'tramp', 'fag', 'bum' with their very different meanings (not all of which are in some measure offensive). All part of life's rich tapestry, I suppose, but it can get in the way of effective communication. Interestingly, there is a BBC TV programme at present called 'Balderdash and Piffle' which explores and explains the origin of various words and phrases - the object being to get input to help the Oxford English Dictionary update its entries, particularly where an earlier known usage can be verified by written evidence. This week, the feminist Germaine Greer spoke at length on the dreaded word 'c**t', using it quite openly and explaining its (perfectly respectable) ancient origins. She asked why it couldn't be more accepted in ordinary use, given that there is in fact no true (and acceptable) conversational/medical term for the female sex organ as an 'entity' and most people have to use a simple and innocuous euphemism (e.g. 'down below' or 'bottom') or an inaccurate medical term (e.g. vagina). Personally, I think she has a good point: c**t may well be offensive when used - indeed misused - as an expletive but that should not stop its use in the right place. We men don't have the same trouble - 'penis' is the correct contemporary term for the male appendage as a whole, despite its original meaning of 'tail'. In passing, I wonder whether 'balderdash' and 'piffle' are meaningless in the US (or elsewhere outside the UK)? For those who don't know, they describe words or speech that is senseless, muddled or nonsense.

[jmc]

We know "balderdash" here on this side of the big puddle. (How could we not, given our political system and news media?) It is not a commonly used word here but I am certain most Americans would understand it to mean "false or misleading statements, ranging from outright lies to subterfuge" (that's my definition). "Piffle" is also known here, at least I recognize that word. Again, it is not a commonly used word here but I have run across it in some British literature back in my school days. Here, it is fairly synonymous with "trivia". "Piffle" is not false, so it is not "balderdash" but it is so inconsequential as to be valueless. No, I'm not an English major, I'm an engineer.

[Puffer]

Interesting, jmc. We don't have the sense of falseness or even of being misleading in 'balderdash' in the UK, but I can see how that might develop. The original meaning of balderdash was froth, or later a jumbled mixture of liquids or drinks (such as wine and beer), from which the idea of a senseless jumble of words developed. So, whilst most of the politicians on both sides of the pond utter balderdash, ours at least are not necessarily being dishonest when they are talking nonsense and yours may well be totally comprehensible when they are being economical with the truth. (Safest bet is to ignore all of them - I do!)

[azraelle]

Over here, c**t is most commonly used, when it is used in "normal" conversation, as a derisive reference to another human being, either a female that you have ought against, or a similar, usually sissified, male. After that, of course, it refers to the female anatomy.