The Death Penalty

[texasbumpkin]

Firefox, I think you missed the point. These kids realize what it is like to be locked in a cell for 10 minutes, and when they are in for 10 months you are in the cell for 12-18 hours a day. The realization of that, and talking to the other prisoners scare them straight, hence the name of the program. Yes, I know that you are going to say that it does not work for everyone, but it works for some of them, and some is better then none. I would rather have 20 kids go through the program and have 1 come out and change his/her ways. That is one lesS person in the jails, one less person that our tax money has to pay to house, feed, and pay. Yes pay. If they are working in the jail, you have to pay them for their time that they work. They may only get paid a few dollars a day, but it adds up over time.

[Bubba136]

It's a good program that works for 7 out of every 10 given the "tour." The other three will wind up incarcerated anywhere from 5 years to life. And, to be effective, the kids can't be over a certain age.

[azraelle]

I still think the punishment ought to fit the crime--it works for children, and it could be argued that adults who commit crimes against society are nothing moore than adult children. E.G. "an eye for an eye", etc. If a guy rapes and terrorizes a girl, put him in a place where he will be raped and terrorized by his fellow inmates, repeatedly! Humane treatment of human beings is only deserved by the human beings that treat others humanely. Any other policy is sheer lunacy, and will eventually bring about the downfall of civilization as we know it.

[Julietta]

Surely we can only become civilised if we ALL behave in a civilised way. Which means everyone treating everyone as an equal with understanding and compassion.

A person who commits a crime has usually, I say usually because obviously there are exceptions, come from a poor background with poor parenting and poor schooling. There is usually no one there to encourage or boost their self esteems, here is an example although the person in question wasn't a criminal...

I worked with a young girl who was near as damn it illiterate, however, she was really bright and an excellent worker. She used to create havoc as people, who were snooty in my business at that time, thought she was common (yes she had a London accent) as we worked in the City (London) and they were quite vocal about how they thought about her and so she either cried or lost her temper a lot.

For some reason I always end up fighting other peoples corners and when I protested they put her under my wing. I used to help her with her spelling and told her constantly how good she was at her job (the customers loved her). Encouraged she asked me how she could improve herself. I told her to read and read as that's the best way to learn how to spell. Told her in fact to get a steamy Jackie Collins to keep her interested. Anyway she took my advice and bought a book. A few days later she came in and looked a bit sorry for herself and on questioning what was wrong she replied that her parents had asked her what the hell she was doing reading a book. She had told them that I had encouraged her to read to help her with her spelling an they took the micky out of her. I told her to rise above it and she did.

A few months later I was asked to set up a new office and it weas then that my colleagues colours shone through. No one wanted this girl and I was approached to ask if I would take her with me. I jumped at the chance and she came. Only one other person that was moving with us understood her potential.

To cut a long story short, after I was promoted out of the office not only did this young lady take over as office manager but she also managed to get her wages increased by 3k more than I'd been on. She always thanked me for changing her life but as I said to her she did it herself as all I ever did was believe in her ablilities.

Well I have rambled but my point is that unless we get away from bashing and crushing people's self esteems and people stop thinking they are superior because their colour, accent, sense of dress, education, thin, fat, etc etc then as a civilisation we will never progress. Our children need to be encouraged, nurtured and praised becaue by the time they are adults old habits die hard and usually the damage has been done!

[JeffM]

Julie, what a beautiful story.

I live in a world where any thing is possible where it doesnt try to break the rules of the universe. It is only a matter of finding the way that works for any individual.

The problem with a prison systen as I see it is that the punishment doesnt work for every one. It may work for most or nearly most of them but from the most stupid of small crimes to the worst, the punishment is the same, stick em in gaol.

What if though there was another way of making them realise the error of their ways a method that fits the individual. Then maybe we wouldnt have any where the number of repeat offenders.

Have a look at schools where about 68% of kids fit into a certain group and that is how we treat them when it comes to teaching. A small precentage though are "gifted" and left to their own most of the time and another group are "slower" in learnig, but maybe it is all because the method of teaching the 68% doesnt suit these others.

I worked with a guy once who was a real rebel, always getting into trouble for doing it his way, arguing with the boss almost daily. But when he was eventually promoted and given some responsibiltiy and authority he became a different person in only a week. His subordinates were quietly and confidently told and shown what was expected of them and they did it, positive couching, not negative couching where they were being told at every moment what they had done or were doing wrong.

I know it works for me.

Jeff

[Jimmy]

When I was in high school I had written an editorial piece in my school newspaper about the death penalty (Note: This was at the time of the Columbine incident so the teacher/editor allowed topics that ventured outside what would normally be written in a school paper). As I was laying out the framework for the article I initially based my thesis on two factors; the first being if the sentence truly justified the nature of the crime and the second being if a death sentence is better financial alternative than a life sentence. After gathering more information on the second, I found out that after court costs, legal defense fees and other legal fees the two numbers came pretty close to one another. As for the first statement, the only argument I had to justify the death penalty is that in almost all cases it's decided by a jury, therefore society has chosen what to do with the person who committed the crime. Furthermore, as innovations in forensic science continue to develop the margin for error continues to decrease. Personally, I think that a lifetime in solitary confinment is the most fitting punishment for a capital offense, but having said that I also believe in karma...and the prison killings of Jeffery Dahmer and the priest who sexually assulted those kids are representative of the acts those individuals committed.

[Julietta]

Furthermore, as innovations in forensic science continue to develop the margin for error continues to decrease.

Trouble is unless you are a 100% sure then execution is not an answer as there is always the chance that you could execute an innocent person. Besides who gives the executioners the right to take anothers life?

[Bubba136]

Julietta wrote:

"Surely we can only become civilised if we ALL behave in a civilised way.

"Which means everyone treating everyone as an equal with understanding and compassion;

"I always end up fighting other peoples corners;”

"unless we get away from bashing and crushing people's self esteems and people stop thinking they are superior because their colour, accent, sense of dress, education, thin, fat, etc etc then as a civilisation we will never progress.

Wow; what an admirable, praiseworthy, laudable, splendid, wonderful, commendable attitude. It's really wonderful that you are so taken with feelings of others.

But, if you actually believe what you wrote and practice what you believe, why then aren’t you willing to extend it to Susan (the original)? Why are so many of the posters here, that obviously agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments, unwilling to really stop and “read” what Susan says rather than just see the portions of her thought that “you” don’t agree with and start swinging at her from the floor?

[Julietta]

Hey Bubba I have never been against Susan. If you check out my original dealings with her she was wholeheartedly trying to change my views and I said to her that we both had our own views and that we were both entitled to them also that we should beg to differ and leave it at that.

I don't know her from Adam and can only go on what I read from her postings, just as we all can, and from her writing, wrongly or rightly it comes across as cruel to men who wear heels. I may have misunderstood her writings as many others have too in that case but I can also have my own opinion just as she can. My only objection to her is that she wants to change everyone elses to that of her own thinking.

Anyway Bubba that's about all I want to say on this subject as I shouldn't have opened up that can of worms again as I had finished with it and quite frankly I haven't anything else to say on the subject.

I do however acknowledge that you are offended by my comments about her and so apologise to you for that but I do reserve the right to my own opinion which from now on I will keep to myself

Lets now lay this to rest Bubba and carry on enjoying interacting on this wonderful forum.

Regards

Julie x

[Bubba136]

Fine with me. I am not "offended" with your comments. I was just curious, however, because the highly laudable actions you described didn't quite meld with the remarks you addressed to Susan. "Nuff said" on my part, too and I hope you aren't up set at my inquiry. End of discussion.