Design Anomalies in Larger Sizes

[genebujold]

No doubt many of you have purchased heels in larger sizes. Have you noticed any quirks about them that should not, or would not, have existed if they'd been made in the usual range of women's heels? (6-9, US)

With that in mind, I'd like to solicit feedback from you as to what quirks you've noticed - as well as what has worked quite well, and why.

To begin, I'd like to reference a post I just made on another thread: http://www.hhplace.org/hhboard/viewtopic.php?p=56358#56358

Please don't post on that thread - post your reply, observations, comments, arguements, disagreements, constructive criticisms, blasting, and debasing here, on this thread, instead.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you!

[new_look]

no noticed problems, but i note that say a 4in block heel looks fairly low and not so exciting in a size 8, whereas the same shoe in a sz4 would look really high and well arched. To get the same image in terms of proportion for the larger foot, the heel must be very chunky and higher, and would probably look silly because it was so enlarged

[Robert]

I notice the same as Daz, that with a larger size the dimensions of the heel stays the same. So a blockheel on a size 5 or 6 UK looks more proportional than a size 10 UK.

That reminds me the table given in Arno's post could also be valid for "heel widths for blockheels". Of course with other values and calculations.

I don't think it will look silly, it's just in proportion.

Robert

[micha]

I notice the same as Daz, that with a larger size the dimensions of the heel stays the same. So a blockheel on a size 5 or 6 UK looks more proportional than a size 10 UK.

That reminds me the table given in Arno's post could also be valid for "heel widths for blockheels". Of course with other values and calculations.

I don't think it will look silly, it's just in proportion.

Robert

Yes, thats true. The heel height has to follow the shoe length! The majority of producers pay attention to this rule. But this is sometimes probematical. I have just won a ebay auction for 16 cm sandalettes (~6''). I received them in US 13/14 (EU 45) nearly 19 cm high (~7.5''). I can't wear these shoes. Simply a bad buy!

micha

[dressboots]

re. quirks in larger sized heels. Manufacturers of larger sized women's boots seem to think that a very generous, "full" calf always goes with the larger sizes 10 - 13 and that women with such feet are 5'5" or less in height. I have seldom found boots with a properly proportioned calf for the tall, slim leg. They are made, just not frequently. I guess tall women would have the same complaint.

[hoverfly]

I have seldom found boots with a properly proportioned calf for the tall, slim leg. They are made, just not frequently. I guess tall women would have the same complaint.

On sizes 11 US and up, it's hard to find a pair that hugs my skinny legs. Passed up many pairs because I did not want to deal with altering them. However since I wear pants only with heels then it does not really matter to much with ancke boots but any thing higher it causes my pants to bulge out. But I have snagged (at what ever the cost) two pairs of knee high Sketchers in an 11 that have a great fit.

This one since have been dyed black

[GrayLion]

Yes, thats true. The heel height has to follow the shoe length! The majority of producers pay attention to this rule. But this is sometimes probematical. I have just won a ebay auction for 16 cm sandalettes (~6''). I received them in US 13/14 (EU 45) nearly 19 cm high (~7.5''). I can't wear these shoes. Simply a bad buy!

Wow! somebody actually deos that? I am impressed! Would you sell these?

cheers

Bernhard

[Dr. Shoe]

There are two schools of thought concerning heels. On one hand you produce shoes with the same heel height across the board so the smaller sizes appear to have a higher heel and have a better arch when in the larger sizes they look less "exciting". The other school of thought designs shoes for their shape so therefore the heel increases in height according to size. The practical considerations are that tooling costs are quite high for heels (£300 for a model them up to £3000 for the mould) so therefore you would probably find that each heel height corresponds to a size range of two or three sizes.

[Heelfan]

There is a factor mitigating in favour of keep the heel height the same as the shoe gets larger. Namely, large-footed women are usually tall, and when buying large-sized shoes, don't want to stand out in the crowd as being very much taller than they already are. Therefore, it suits many shoe manufacturers to keep the heel-height constant, so that the tiny little petite lady appears taller (the heel being proportionately high on the shoe), whilst the tall ladies are content for that heel height to remain the same on their large sizes. BUT, frustratingly, we street-heeling guys are not similarly content! It is so frustrating whenever I get excited at seeing a knockout high-heel style depicted (photographed in a medium a smallish size), only to find that when it gets to my size (9.5 UK = 11.5 US) the heel and the corresponding arch both look and feel proportionally fairly meek and pathetic! Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[genebujold]

There are two schools of thought concerning heels.

On one hand you produce shoes with the same heel height across the board so the smaller sizes appear to have a higher heel and have a better arch when in the larger sizes they look less "exciting".

The other school of thought designs shoes for their shape so therefore the heel increases in height according to size.

The practical considerations are that tooling costs are quite high for heels (£300 for a model them up to £3000 for the mould) so therefore you would probably find that each heel height corresponds to a size range of two or three sizes.

How much more expensive, exactly, is it to tool for a different top angle on the heel of a larger shoe?

As a manufacturing engineer (long ago, mid-80's), I know retooling can be expensive. I also know that ingenuity goes a long way towards limiting costs. For example, I once retooled a set of alignment templates on the old-fashioned drill press in the back because the machine shop kept getting it wrong. It took me three tries, but only 15 minutes, compared to the $1,340 the machine shop from the main plant charged us for the first three set of unuseable plates.

"When you want a job done right, do it yourself."

And that 15 minutes cost the company less than $10 of my time, at a time when I was earning more than $60,000 a year.

So please don't tell me it can't be done!

Of course it can be done! In fact, while writing this I thought of three different approaches, all proven in the annuls of manufacturing, that would enable the concept of true proportionality throughout the full size range of women's heels.

Surely you, Doc, can spare a few brain cells and enlighten us, with your superior experience, as to what I might be referring?

Come on, now! Please use that degree for inventing, rather than refuting!

If not, if I find a refute here when I return, I'll sadly trounce you (and I like you, so I'd rather not do that...).

Cheers!

Ciao!

[Bubba136]

The idea that a shoe manufacture make each pair of shoes from their own resources is no longer the case. These days there are companies that manufacture different parts of shoes and sell them to the company that assembles them. I ran across sever websites of firms that make nothing but heels for womens shoes. All premolded and perfectly proportioned as to hight graduations. I Also found some companies that make molded sole and heel (shoe bottoms) units in various sizes. A couple of years ago I ordered a pair of custom made shoes from a firm in Europe only to learn that their supplier of 7" heels was having design problems and couldn't furnish the proper heels. They were frantically searching for another firm that could furnish their shoemaker with them. They finally found one in Italy after 7 months. They emailed me with the news that their production problem had been solved and wanted to know if I was still interested. I had, by that time, purchased a similar style from LSB and had to tell them that they were to late.

[Heelfan]

Gene, in our postings, I hope we can give Dr. Shoe the respect that he deserves. To my knowledge, he is the only Forum member who has been through an entire training in the shoe-making industry, covering all aspects of the trade. Believe me, he knows far more about it from first-hand experience than the rest of us are ever likely to know, or even to guess at. He is one of the most valuable of all the members on here. Bubba's point is also very salient. Even when a manufacturer does decide to vary the heel-height in proportion to the shoe size, it is an outside heel-maker than usually supplies these, but only in about two or three basic sizes to cover the full range of shoe sizes. I entirely agree with you that in an ideal world they should take the trouble to ensure that everty single shoe size has a slightly different heel to correspond, but sadly in this imperfect world of hard commerce and big business, compromises are made, as Dr. Shoe and Bubba have pointed out. I think we should all be warmly thanking Dr. Shoe and Bubba for taking the trouble to explain the workings of the shoe-making industry to us all. Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[Dr. Shoe]

[

How much more expensive, exactly, is it to tool for a different top angle on the heel of a larger shoe?

As a manufacturing engineer (long ago, mid-80's), I know retooling can be expensive. I also know that ingenuity goes a long way towards limiting costs. For example, I once retooled a set of alignment templates on the old-fashioned drill press in the back because the machine shop kept getting it wrong. It took me three tries, but only 15 minutes, compared to the $1,340 the machine shop from the main plant charged us for the first three set of unuseable plates.

"When you want a job done right, do it yourself."

And that 15 minutes cost the company less than $10 of my time, at a time when I was earning more than $60,000 a year.

So please don't tell me it can't be done!

Of course it can be done! In fact, while writing this I thought of three different approaches, all proven in the annuls of manufacturing, that would enable the concept of true proportionality throughout the full size range of women's heels.

Surely you, Doc, can spare a few brain cells and enlighten us, with your superior experience, as to what I might be referring?

Come on, now! Please use that degree for inventing, rather than refuting!

If not, if I find a refute here when I return, I'll sadly trounce you (and I like you, so I'd rather not do that...).

Cheers!

Ciao!

Absolutely! Actually on rereading my post I see where I may have mislead you. I meant to say that if you keep the heel height the same then you don't need any retooling because the component manufacturers all have moulding systems capable of varying the "seat" according to the different angles of each size without the need for retooling.

However, if you raise the height according to size then you have to maintain the proportion of the heel otherwise there is no point in the exercise! If you have a taper and you wish to make it longer with the same cross section at the ends then the angles at the base and the apex will vary so even with a simple cone you will need new tools. In these cases you will have a big mould with inserts for each heel shape but this still costs money that the notoriously tight-fisted footwear industry won't willingly spend.

All I know is that if I buy a box of stock heels from Stamina Components Ltd. they will cost around £50.00 plus VAT. If they are made from a model I send them I have to pay £1000 tooling or order a minimum of 2000 pairs. Also, by doing this, the lasts also have to be retooled for each size too as the lathes they're turned on can be programmed for variation of size but not heel height.

[Firefox]

I can see how injection moulding tooling costs can mount up. The whole thing is a different shape, not just the seat angle. Ok, you can get away with the same heel spread across two sizes, but to make a size 39 heel and stick it on both a 35 and 43 is crazy. I've seen it done often enough though and I'd like to think discerning members of hhboard wouldn't touch such creations with a barge pole .

[new_look]

who's got a barge pole may i ask? lol but no i wouldnt. as heelfan rightly said, a catalogue picture of say a 3.5in heel in sz4 looks stunning, nicely arched etc, but when the sz8 arrives, it looks low and spread out with a huge gap between heel and front, and a crappy arch. can be rather dissapointing daz