INTRODUCING Elle.coms reactions to men in heels

[jim]

I'm suprised you take any notice of the people in the Elle thread. Most of them are idiots with an IQ of about 80. You just have to feel sorry for someone who thinks a guy wearing heels is gay

If you had not said it Firefox, I sure as hell would have.......these people appear to be nothing more than gum chewing, teenage air-heads with out an original thought between them.

jim

[Trolldeg]

looks like the thread has been deleted. damn, I was just going to stir things up a bit by posting a pic of meself...

[Francis]

Bravo, Gene !! Glad to see that intelligence is winning the argument. I have noticed that these replies you have highlighted consist of the "I know what I want" type girly posters. The unfortunate thing is that they will never be told anything to the contrary and the only way they can enhance their arguments is to offer a threat of violence in their reply. Doesn't this show how "open minded" they claim to be? Anyway, damn glad to see you back, Gene !

[Crazee]

looks like the thread has been deleted. damn, I was just going to stir things up a bit by posting a pic of meself...

The thread is still there so you still have a chance of stirring up things

Personally I've tried to register twice there, but don't get that mail... I would've supported the kids there, I guess, with a statement along the lines of "a man in heels is like a woman in trousers."

Or maybe I just would've wondered how long something that's fashion for one gender will have to be out of use for it to be unheard of for that same gender to start using it again. (AFAIK heels was introduced as mens footwear? In the west, at least. And as for dresses, as that was mentioned - I was born the year that dresses for boys (in Europe) was last used. And I'm not particular old...)

And I might have wondered how long time it would take for one gender to aquire the other genders fashion; trousers for women got widely accepted - when? Sixties, wasn't it?

[genebujold]

keep the slaughter on. Those people are so annoying

daz

You got it, Daz!

[genebujold]

i have to agree, but its so annoying sometimes you just have to try and say something.

Im sure firefox that you would agree that some people as hard as you can try, never see the point, and you have to give up trying.

daz

A long time ago, on a BBS far, far away, I learned an invaluable lesson from my co-sysop, who said, "you're not writing to him, you're writing to everyone else, to those who don't necessarily respond, but still read, and who actually take the time to think about what you've said."

That's the beauty of message boarding - when enough people have their say, eventually most are reached, a few people at a time.

I would also have to say it's quite fun!

[genebujold]

Bravo, Gene !!

Glad to see that intelligence is winning the argument.

I have noticed that these replies you have highlighted consist of the "I know what I want" type girly posters. The unfortunate thing is that they will never be told anything to the contrary and the only way they can enhance their arguments is to offer a threat of violence in their reply. Doesn't this show how "open minded" they claim to be?

Anyway, damn glad to see you back, Gene !

Why, thank you, Francis! Damned glad to be back!

[Trolldeg]

The thread is still there so you still have a chance of stirring up things

Thanx, now if I could just figure our how to post a picture in there...

[genebujold]

And another...

<blockquote><HR>

On 5/6/2004 9:20:26 AM Baby Phat wrote:

<DIV>It's funny how all these new people log in on a post and start talking shit about people who's been in the forum for a while. Get a fucken clue it ain't that serious. I wouldn't even stoop to the level of debating anything&nbsp;with them&nbsp; this will probably be there only post in this forum. Damn I hope one of them picks a debate with Elle G and she send them running the fuck out of here. (that's a good thing elle)</DIV>

<HR></blockquote></p>

Wow - you're cussing now. Desperate, or just angry?

No one is attacking you, Baby Phat. We're attacking the issue. We're attacking ignorance.

For example, check out the following pictoral representation of clothing throughout the ages:

It's a matter of historical record, not opinion, that men have regularly worn the same clothing items that women have throughout the ages. Anyone who's ever seen the countless paintings and statues throughout Europe and Asia could never argue otherwise without people thinking them utterly mad. The only possible exceptions would include the bra and the chastity belt, the functions of which were decidedly feminine. Other than that... Were you aware that hosiery was a male-only clothing item for centuries? In the merry old days of Robin Hood (13th century, I believe) and a few before and after, men wore stockings and mini-skirts (or tunics), while women wore longer-length dresses.

A most detailed description, including how they're adorned can be found "Timeline" (the book), by Michael Crichton. You can view the details for yourselves throughout the movie.

Throughout the Middle East men routinely wear dresses (er, "robes"). In Asia, skirts were worn by men until the occupation by U.S. personnel in Japan in 1945, and in Korea in 1950. Shortly after that, Japanese and Korean men adopted bifurcated clothing, probably because they were tired of listening to the laughter of John Wayne-esque idiots.

One of the reasons highly educated people are so tolerant of non-conformist clothing choices is because they know their history! Those that don't are the ones who're the most vocal against anything outside their realm of experience - and are also the least aware that their realm of experience is as limited as it is.

[kneehighs]

I'm done dealing with those people at Elle. My girlfriend stood over my shoulder and read the Elle forum and she too was annoyed. But I think that if I keep answering those fools, then I will be a fool myself since manytimes the fool is wise in his own eyes.

[kneehighs]

I'm done dealing with those people at Elle. My girlfriend stood over my shoulder and read the Elle forum and she too was annoyed. But I think that if I keep answering those fools, then I will be a fool myself since manytimes the fool is wise in his own eyes.

[azraelle]

I think you guys are beating a dead horse. Also trying to pound thumbtacks with a sledgehammer. The subject of the thread was, ostensibly, "INTRODUCING new high heels fashion". If you had just mentioned that you liked to wear high heels (and lied a bit and said that you felt that chunky's were the way to go for men, leaving the stillettos for the women) and left out the wearing of skirts entirely, you might have garnered a little more support. "Steady by jerks" as my dad used to say. But no, you had to hit them with the whole enchilada. Even the historical argument falls flat with respect to stillettos--a decidedly feminine introduction to the fashion scene if there ever was one. Yes I know, Louis the 14th or some such wore heels that were very narrow, by today's standards of male heel wear, and very femininely shaped, from a modern day viewpoint. They would, however, be called either chunky or narrow chunky nowadays, NOT stilletos. Practice what you preach. That said, their argument that you guys are only there to argue on a particular narrow subject, and keep coming back, yammering away on the same old sh*t, castigating those who have been on Elle's forums for their views is also a two way street--they don't have to keep coming back and post replies either!! They CHOOSE to do so, same as you.

[Trolldeg]

I'm just having fun reading all those airheaded comments, I never expected to turn anyone around...

[genebujold]

Hi, Azraelle:

Here's another dead horse I beat at Elle's site:

Where the hell have you been during the last ten years, people? You're like someone from the 60's waking after 20 years and freaking out because some men are wearing their hair below their ears!

Around the world roundup of men's CURRENT skirted fashion wear for men:

USA: http://www.macabiskirt.com/

India: http://library.thinkquest.org/11372/data/dress.htm

USA: http://www.utilikilts.com/

Scotland: http://www.21stcenturykilts.co.uk/upload/tplt_21stck_.asp?page=2100002142

Saudi: http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/photos/clothes-store.html

Germany: https://ssl.kundenserver.de/menintime.de/start_en.php3?VID=nQAima8meZlXNhHj&PID=no

Germany: http://www.polltaex.com/template/pi607162731.htm?categoryId=50

Switzerland: http://www.amok.ch/

Canada: http://www.bearkilts.com/

England: http://www.streetkilts.co.uk/

Germany: http://www.maennerrock24.de/cgi-bin/html/index.pl

USA (Georgia): http://www.erogenos.com/

And here are a few sites on fashion history throughout the ages. If you can get over your prejudices long enough to at least LOOK at the sites you'll find this isn't a "new thing" at all. The only thing new about it is the reintroduction of it to the narrow-minded American community - and I mean the USA, as my Canadian neighbors are a bit more progressive than we tend to be!

http://www.dressforsuccess.nl/History-of-Fashion.html

http://www.garbtheworld.com/index.shtml

http://fashion107.blogspot.com/

[genebujold]

Yet another...

<blockquote><HR>

On 5/7/2004 11:20:53 AM tenajsm wrote:

to me its no different than us eating chicken, cows, and pigs, and other countries eating cats and dogs- the only reason we don't agree with that is because those certain animals are our pets- and no matter what anyone says trying to convience you "hey over in this country we eat dogs" you will be like that shit is sick and wouldn't agree with it.

so why is it so hard for you to believe that

&nbsp; in a country where we usually don't practice those certian styles of dressing that it wouldn't be acceptable.

<HR></blockquote></p>

Nice subject! And a perfect lead in for another point.

One day back in 1996 I walked out of my garage, took a fresh breath of cool Fall air, and almost puked - I thought the main sewer pipe had burst.

Nope - just my neighbor, and good friend, cooking chitlins in the backyard... (chitlins are pig's intestines).

My point is this - I'll never try chitlins myself. But if my neighbor wants to have at it, then he can have at it!

People in different countries (often the same country) eat food that others think is abhorrent. Their religious beliefs may be different. Their skin color may be different. Their clothing may be different.

When people look at someone who's different than they are, regardless of whether that's due to race, belief, or preference, and rail on 'em, it's called PREJUDICE:

Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: 1prej·u·dice

Pronunciation: 'pre-j&-d&s

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment -- more at JUDICIAL

1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims

2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion

*****

c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

synonym see PREDILECTION

*****

Get over your damned prejudices, people!

[chris100575]

Personally I don't have a problem with the idea of people eating dogs / cats as long as they're being humanely treated and killed. I do have a personal rule about never eating an animal that has a name though! Chris

[genebujold]

I'm done dealing with those people at Elle. My girlfriend stood over my shoulder and read the Elle forum and she too was annoyed. But I think that if I keep answering those fools, then I will be a fool myself since manytimes the fool is wise in his own eyes.

I'm not so sure I'd agree with you and Azraelle, Kneehighs.

As I pointed out earlier, I'm not trying to change the fanatics' minds - I'm trying to change everyone else's mind, the ones who just look.

Take a look at the stats on how many people read a post here on HighHeel Meeting Place vs how many actually respond - it's several to one.

It's the several I'm trying to reach, as they're the ones who're riding the fence.

As for azraelle's comments that I'm hitting them with a hammer or flooding the board - not true. I've only posted to one thread. If anyone were so inclined, they could begin another.

A third reason I'm still at it is that sometime in the next several years, many people, perhaps thousands, will enter some search words in Google, Yahoo, Alta Vista, or their equivalents, and will be lead to the archived page on the site, perhaps with an intent of becoming more educated about the issue, if not for themselves then for other reasons.

I want to reach them too! I want them to have access to the same arguements against the narrow-minded bigotry that I have.

I want them to have access to the same links on fashion, both historical and current, with respect to how widely varied men's wear around the world really is, even with respect to heels.

I think it's worthwhile to continue to push through the issue, to counter the same old tired arguements based on prejudice, period learning (and can't lean a thing beyond when I was 17!), etc.

I'm all about breaking the mold.

Robert A. Heinlein, one of my favorite authors, once wrote: "Staying young requires the unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods."

If most people were pretty good at this, I seriously doubt this board would exist, as it was born out of the need to counter the prejudice and provide a forum for support.

Nay, my friends - the only way to counter mindsets deeply embedded within history is with never-tiring arguement to the contrary, arguement based in fact, where one uses their opponent's loopholes against them, forcing them into a position where the only arguement they have left is ridicule.

At that point, you have them, for no matter how much the "many-fold" readers might have agreed with the antagonist, most of them will indeed see through the collapse of the arguement, and begin to question their own believes. Many of them will follow the links, see the historical pictures. Most will, over time, come to accept the concept of men who wear their hair long, who wear earrings, women who wear belly-button rings, women who pants, even sneakers, and men who wear heels.

Acceptance may come at a cheaper price than freedom, but not much cheaper.

[genebujold]

Occasionally, my wife gets into the act... Believe it or not, she's a bit more opinionated than I:

<blockquote><HR>

On 5/7/2004 11:22:18 AM siensunshine wrote:

<DIV></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE>

<HR>

On 5/6/2004 11:12:31 AM genebujold wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>

<DIV>

Hi - I'm Gene's wife, so I believe I have some input on what you're trying to say.

First, I take my husband seriously as a man - he's a wonderful husband, and a great father.&nbsp; That we're still together after 13 years of marriage (with me loving him instead of just tolerating him) should say a lot, especially in this day and age of being "Americans" in this "culture."

How do I expect you to react?&nbsp; However you do so is your choice!&nbsp; I would hope you would do so in the light of reason, rather than sheer, ignorant emotional reaction.&nbsp; If he's "not your man," terrific!&nbsp; He's MY man, and I'm very proud of him, the way he contributes to our community, and the way he's provided for our family, both monetarially as well as with his warm, loving, personal presence.&nbsp; If that's not you're experience, I'm truly sorry, as I was married once before, and I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of literally nothing.

How do I expect you to react...&nbsp; Ok - let's turn this around a bit.&nbsp; I'm not a young woman (I grew up in the fifties and sixties).&nbsp; How do you expect me to react to afros, pink cadillacs and leather?&nbsp; How do you expect me to react to skimpy (nearly non-existant!) dresses in public?&nbsp; How do you expect me to react to the bare-chested crap that came across cable TV so often we decided to do without?

I'll tell you - I expect you to react with the same level of tolerance and understand as you expected me to react to whenever you decided to do whatever the hell it was that you wanted to do!

If you cannot comprehend the fact that this street goes two ways, then it's time you strap yourself back into that corset/binder, and deal with it!

Otherwise, show at least 10% of the tolerance we've shown others with respect to what they would like to wear!&nbsp; I support your opinion, to be sure - but please support mine, as well!

<HR>

</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

<FONT face=Verdana color=#00cccc size=4>I am very happy for you that your husband is a good and caring man.&nbsp; You being from another time, I myself am a child of the 80s and 90s, I am sure that you remember when morals and values were a little more steadfast than they are today.&nbsp; You made a comment about tolerance.&nbsp; While I agree that even if you don't agree with something you must coexist with it to&nbsp;encourage peaceable living, the analogy that you used was somewhat ridiculous.&nbsp; I am assuming you are making reference to the 70s fashion and African-American pop culture at the time when you mention afros and pink cadillacs and todays almost naked pop culture.&nbsp; However, they were and are&nbsp;challenging fashion, when a man dresses in womans clothing, he is not only chanllenging fashion, but social norms and gender identities.&nbsp; I am sure you can see that the social sanctions will be a little bit more severe for the latter than the former.&nbsp; Believe me, it is more than the participants of this forum that you will receive criticism from, because as I have previously stated, you are batting against gender identities that have been in place for centuries.&nbsp; </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

<HR></blockquote></p>

Terrific! I'm a child of the 60's and 70's, when morals were a "little more steadfast" than they were in the 80's and 90's.

You asked how I reacted. I told you. Now you're calling my comments "ridiculous."

Then you claim he's challanging "social norms and gender identities" when men have been wearing skirts for the last 4,000 years of recorded history, and say he's wearing "challanging attire." You don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about! The only one who's "challanged" is you and others like you who can't fathom that their limited experience isn't the end-all, be-all of which gender wears what clothing, why, when, and where!

He posted the links on historical fashion - Look at them! Learn something! But don't just parade your ignorance!

As for "receiving criticism," my husband and I go out quite a lot in Las Vegas, a town which attracts millions of people from around the world.

No one has challanged his attire! If it were so "socially unacceptable" as you claim, the casinos would have stopped him at the door because to them, money is everything, and anything that results in lost income is a liability. I've seen them toss drunks left and right - no one wants a drunk as they're offensive.

My husband has never been offensive, in either manner OR in dress, at least not to anyone with a shred of culture or education. The one time some idiot college student thought he was being smart and was smarting off - the casino tossed HIM out! They don't tolerate idiots - too many of their clientelle actually have a clue, and you don't get rich by being stupid.

Getting back to your "gender identities that have been in place for centuries," you haven't the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. Follow the links he posted, and you'll see for yourself what manner of clothing men have worn throughout the ages.

Better yet - don't. Remain in ignorance! Although I would really hope you choose to uncork your mental roadblock on this issue!

Whew! Time for a dip in the pool before I blow more than a fuse.

[sscotty727]

Hi Gene, I have been following the threads that have been posted on the various forms, however up to this point I haven't responded. First of all, I wanted to say I appreciate all your arguments about men wearing heels. I feel you made excellent points and I agree that over time you will see men wearing heels more, but probably not to the point you see women today wearing them. I also congratulate you for having a fantastic wife that not only accept your heel wearing, but also comes to your defense when anyone puts you down for wearing them. I think I speak for all of us when I say I wish all our wives were less judgmental in our heel wearing passion (mine accepts me wearing them but she would be the first to buckle if anyone were to say that looks weird). Now, all that said, I also agree with Azraelle. When you posted to a form that is mainly for women into trendy fashion, you can't just jump in with "What do you think of men wearing skirts, dresses and stiletto heels" and not expect to be bashed. I think society would make fun of and ridicule guys for wearing such clothes. I know I would get very odd stares and comments if I just went to the mall here dressed that way. Sure if I lived in San Fran or even Las Vegas maybe it wouldn't stand out as much, but in small rural town (like where I live) I guarantee you it would set off reactions. People have been beaten for even suspected of being gay. Sure I know that "gay" men are less likely to wear skirts and heels, but tell the average non-thinking judgmental redneck that as he is pounding you. Don't get me wrong, as you have seen in all my posts here, I am ALL for men wearing heels. But as Azraelle said, if you want societies acceptance, you have to take "baby steps" (yes, pun intended). If you were to post "Hey, what do you think of men wearing these 2" block heels/square toe shoes?" I am sure you would get some negatives still, but I bet you would get some positives too. I wear such shoes every day to work and a lot of times they are not hidden under my pants. I work in an Army base as a consultant. Trust me, if they would have thought it was odd (and they do look where I am for odd stuff) I would have been told or escorted out. Not one person has batted an eye. Another point to consider. I think a lot of this too is that women tend to want things that are "their own". I believe they still feel somewhat less than equal which is actually not far from the truth. Women make less than a man in the same job, they are less likely to get promoted and even after 200+ years, we still don't have a female president/vice president. I doubt even Hillary would be able to break that trend. Let's face it, with all the equality that has happened, women tend to still have less and expect to do more to even be considered to be "equal". Is there no wonder why now with men trying to take one of there most prized attributes, clothing and makeup, they feel somewhat resistant? Now I know not all women feel this way. You are blessed to have such a wife. I am just saying when you make these arguments in the general mainstream and try to take it all at one time, you will get a lot of negative reactions. Continuing the arguments is only going to get nastier and nastier. To be honest, I read the thread and felt like I didn't want to read further myself because it has just turned into a negative-fest. I am not saying not to continue to fight for the right to wear heels, I am just saying continuing to argue with the closed-minded women on Elle isn't getting anywhere. I think you are doing more by what you have been doing. Going to the clubs/bars/etc where you are and proudly wearing your heels with your lovely/loving wife by your side. BTW, welcome back! Scotty

[new_look]

hi scotty i just wanna say i tend to try and agree all around, but i feel a bit against the 'equality' that you claim women still dont have. If you study carefully you will find that nearly every law favours women. The have every fashion choice available, includig any that men have. We have established that so many times on the board. If a women is violent against a man, whether it causes injury or not, the man is laughed out of the police station, where a beaten woman would have the man arrested, jailed, hounded and have a million support groups to back her situation. Equal, i think not. My mother and father split up 5 years ago. It was my mother rthat had an affair behind my dads back, yet She got more than half of everything my dad had got, and had the court protection order put on HIM and the court still wont let my dad see my little sister, because my mum says so. This is equal right, i dont think so. These are just a few examples of how women seem to win. The big jobs you mention. I work in the Yorkshire Bank, and i would say it is 80% populated of women, same as with the managers, so that would seem to be incorrect. Maybe its a case of the man chosen was better at the job, but the woman turns it into an equal rights claim cos she was turned down, rather like our aylum seekers claiming racism at every opportunity if they dont get what they shout for. I agree with you that women want to protect their fashions, because many take pride and time to make themselves look good, but we on the board were only asking what they thought of men in heels. Not makeup, toenails or skirts. So i think the replies were a little nasty for the discussion, and i supported gene in every reply that was made. sorry for the long post, but i dont agree that women are so hard pushed, it feels to be that it becomes increasingly less benefit to be in the modern society as a man than as a woman. daz

[sscotty727]

Hi Daz, First of all, I wanted to appologize if I in anyway offended you or brought back any bad memories. My post was NOT intended to flame or upset anyone. As far as the point Gene and his wife have made, I agree 100% with everything they said. They have obviously done lots of research on the topic and spend alot of time putting the information together. My point is all this effort is being wasted on closed-minded people who I doubt are even reading the posts but instead are flaming them and offering dealth wishes which are completely uncalled for (one hoped she drowned in her hottub!). I think we ALL do a better job promoting heels on men by simply getting out there and wearing them. Gene has alot more guts than me by also wearing skirts and heels in plane site, for that I give him major kidos. To clarify the point about women and equality. Yes I agree there are law to protect equality. Unfortunatly from what I have seen, I still see alot of the "good ole boy" network and mentality in place. Yes it is getting better but hardly "equal". Also, there are also alot of statistics that show dollar for dollar men make more than women. You are 100% right as far as the justice system goes. A man claiming to be harrased or raped by a woman would be the laughing stock on the news. Also, I had a boss who went through a very bitter divorce and he wife kept throwing up walls by claiming abuse, child abuse, etc and he had to spend ALOT of money and time fighting each one that the judge immediately assumed she was right since she was a woman. Also, having two daughters, I get alot of "suspecious" looks when I go to the toy store and look for girls toys. I even had one woman see me and immediatly grab her daughter and pull her the other direction while giving me the look like I was a serial rapist or something. So I do know and understand what you mean on that point. Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone by my comments. Scotty

[Dr. Shoe]

Personally I don't have a problem with the idea of people eating dogs / cats as long as they're being humanely treated and killed. I do have a personal rule about never eating an animal that has a name though!

Avoid Buttercup the cow, Porky the pig and Larry the Lamb!

[Dr. Shoe]

In the pursuit of equality, women have become more equal than men.

[new_look]

thats basically what i wanted to say. It seems life is generally fairer to women. I wasnt offended by your post scotty, but was just pointing out from what u read and hear. Also, like i said with the jobs, statistics can be easly manipulated. The reason overall averages for mens wages are higher is that lots more women do part time than men, therefore the anuakl salaries added to the full time ones make a lesser figure, or summat daft. Its a bit like tha balmy insurance claims that women have less accidents. Garbage, there are just less women on the road, so the amount of female claimers will be less. arghh it gets on my nerves crap like this.... Ill drive myself mad

[kneehighs]

Hey guys, just to let you know, I chose to title the thread, "INTRODUCING new high heels fashion," because that headline appeals to the readers self-interest, curiousity, and has a certain "news" appeal to it. The success of an entire advertising campaign may stand or fall on what is said in the headline. For you guys that use english as a second language, test the power of ,"Are you afraid of making mistakes in English?" vs. "Do you make these mistakes in English?" The second is more powerful because it arouses your self interest and curiosity. Alternatives like, "Men in heels," or "Man spotted on street in stilletos" or "what do you think of men in high heels?" may don't really offer anything of self interest to the reader. I was trying to get as many as people as possible to read the thread. If anyone has more powerful suggestions for the next "women's" forum that I am going to post on, please let me know soon. Thanks

[chris100575]

I've just read through the Elle thread. What a bunch of arseholes. Judging by the standards of their English the average IQ on that board is well below normal. I didn't bother posting, I wouldn't waste my time with them. Dr Shoe: I have no gripe with Buttercup, but Porky the Pig and Larry the Lamb are more annoying than cute. I'd happily butcher and eat either of them. Chris

[sscotty727]

Daz, I conseed(sp?) that the women and equality arguement might have been a slight stretch in explaining why women don't like to see men wearing their clothing. However, I still agree with Azraelle that more people would easier accept men wearing square toe/block heels on men than pointy toe/spiky heeled shoes. Case in point, when I showed the pictures of the guy and his wife wearing heels in the mall to my wife, she said "they are obviously staged in an empty mall and also it would have to be europe since they are more libreral there (forgive my spelling, it is late and I am very tired). When instead I showed her the pics of Hoverfly, she stared to say something, then stopped, took a closer look and said "actually, they don't look bad, I could accept that". Scotty

[kneehighs]

Why don't you post the link to the pic of Hoverfly and if it suits our public agenda, and provided that he offers his authorization to use the pic, perhaps we can inlude that photo on our next foreign forum post.

[new_look]

scotty, i agree that people would accept the blocks too. Women are fashion crazy and concious, and if we wear what to them is their height of fashion then i can understand the intrusion. But stilettos dont look that bad if worn right like the guy in the photos. I dont think he looked so bad. My argument was that women arent as unfairly treated as you said. Liek Dr Shoe pointed out, in their race for equality, they got more right from it. daz

[sscotty727]

Hi Daz, I agree, with the right look they don't look bad. Neither does anything else Gene and others argued about on Elle. My point was simply if you just ASK how do they look with no picture or anything else, it is more than likely going to be slammed as it was. If you just wear them, as most of us found out, you will hardly be noticed and usually in a positive way. To be honest, I wouldn't even bother asking the Elle women what they think, who cares. They seem like stuck up (starts with a b ryhmns with iches;). Scotty