INTRODUCING Elle.coms reactions to men in heels

[Firefox]

I don't think women are more equal than men. There's still a lot of prejudice against women especially in the workplace, and it's much harder for them to enjoy a high flying career on merit alone. As for clothing rights, men have only got themselves to blaim for that. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and get out there and do it would be my general response.

[genebujold]

Hi, Scotty - I read your reply to my post and the few others you did afterwards. Excellent comments! I really enjoyed your perspective - thanks for bringing it to the table - helps keep my own perspective in line. In fact, I went back to Elle and read through some of their other threads. Unbelievable - quite a low-brow crowd there, with the vast majority of them more interested in posting their own "show and tell" stuff than actually reading other people's posts and making intelligent comments. Daz - I'm truly sorry to hear about your family situation. It is unfortunate indeed that such things happen all too often, and unfortunately, our country's system of justice (probably other countries', as well) although pretty good, is messed up with respect to who gets the kids and why. Definately stereotyped. I honestly believe that if a jury heard a sanitized version of the testimony that strips all references to gender, they'd be able to make a better decision. And why shouldn't the children get any input, either? That's not right - if the dad is saying "I want the child" and the child says the same thing often enough in numerous talks with the services, then why not? I think the most distorted arguement I hear is this: "The man will have to work all day so the child should stay with the mom." Like more than half the couples in America today don't drop their kids off at daycare! I feel for you and your little sister, Daz - I really do.

[new_look]

thanks gene. its hard for my dad, cos he cant see her. I cn fortunately, but it puts me in an awkward position in the middle. Going to what firefox said, maybe women do get a hard time to get the real high flyer jobs, but then so do a lot of men. Not everyone gets to the top. With regards to the going out and doing it, i appreciate that youve done it, and probably not had any problems that bother you, but me, like many others i would suspect, are afraid and get offended by the thought of a negative reaction, or to put it simpler, people laughing at me and making me feel stupid. Sometimes you just wanna feel accepted and not looked at as if youre some sort of freak. if i had it in me to just barge out and do it, i dont think i wouldve ever searched for help and support on the net. Im sure there are lots of people who fear this been laughed at thing, otherwise there would be a lot more men dressed in what they want, instead of been so afraid to go past their front door. daz

[sscotty727]

Gene, Thanks for the comments. I too always appreciate reading your views on things. It is very obvious you put alot of thought and research into things. Daz, I suppose there are things on both sides where 1 or the other seem to have it better than the other. I guess what I meant to say was not that they in very case do have it better, but their perception is that everything is less and might therefore be less willing to give into what they perceive as their strong point, fashion. All, One things I would like to say here that really speaks volumns about the members here on this board. If this thread was posted in Elle or other like board, this would have degenerated into a name calling thread. Instead, regardless if we all ended up agreeing, we all seem to atleast have an appreciation of each others views. I have been on other boards as well (sports board, but saying which one) where the second you have just a minor disagreement with someone you get blasted from all sides. It makes you want to just stop posting. I really like the atmosphire here and the fact we can all say and INTELLEGENTLY discuss the issues and not degenerate to name calling. For that I would like to give a big pat on the back for every member here! Thanks, Scotty

[new_look]

i agree, and think your final analysis about women was spot on. I think we do come to good agreement terms in the end daz

[sscotty727]

Ok, testing a different approach. I made up a fake senario and posted it here to see if I would get a different reaction. Look for topic # 42288.

Gene,

If the posts are more positive (and I think they might), you can then take off on "so what is the difference". One thing though, this one tends to delete posts they don't like.

Scotty

[sscotty727]

Well, so far two posts and both negative. I am coming to the conclusion that the women that bother to read the Fashion posts (think about it, they have to ASK others what they should wear!) are just TOO stuck up in their ways and only minions of the "fashion world" who don't think for themselves to even consider a new idea UNLESS it is on the runway of Paris and NY, and even THEN sanctioned "OK" by no less than 3 "high fashion" magazines and worn by alteast 4 "trendsetters" on a "hip/cool" TV show. I think they used to have a name for people like this........"Sheep". Guys, I said it before and I will say it again....who gives a S$$T what they think. You like it, wear it. Scotty

[kneehighs]

bump

[genebujold]

Throughout societal history, fashion has largely been an expression of conformity, not one of individuality. I, too, reached the conclusion that those at Elle and other fashion sites are more interested in seeing who can "push the envelope" within non-defined norms without overstepping the crowd's "woah - that style has got to go!" meter. Unfortunately, the "envelope," while reasonably wide with respect to women's fashion, is nevertheless subject to peer review, and is very narrow when it comes to men's fashion... Not that most people on the street would even notice! Last night, lacking a comfortable pair of slacks, I wore my wife's DKNY satin black pants to the theater along with my Franco Sarto boots (icon to the left) and a simple long-sleeve, white button-up shirt. No one noticed that I could see, and my wife, who's more attuned to others than I, said she saw only two couples notice and talk briefly about my attire before moving on.

[dr1819]

Some of this isn't quite right. Let's take another look:

Throughout societal history, fashion has largely been an expression of conformity, not one of individuality.

This is true only in part. People have two needs - belonging, as well as individuality. Only in extreme situations like the military does fashion reach it's highest levels of conformity via the uniform. However, even then there's a need for diversity, self-identity, which is why uniforms differ between the services, and why elite units such as aviators or Rangers have their own uniforms.

When you move to mainstream society, there's a lot more variation, but conformity remains in certain circles, such as with organized endeavors (police, fire department), just as in business a suit and tie is usually required.

But there are two forces at work - the need to belong, and the need towards individuality. Most people don't want to look like everyone else, but even variation in styles of fashion still has a root in belonging - some variation is more acceptable than no variation, but too much variation violates the need for belonging because you're usually ousted from mainstream society. Consider the last time you saw someone walking down the street wearing a suit made of tree bark!

Consider punkers, goth, and other radically different elements - they fulfill their need for belonging by hanging with others who dress, look, and act much the way they do. In short, it's a two-edged sword, but that's just the nature of the human beast.

[kneehighs]

HA! Wow, that experiment over at ELLE.com was a disaster, but it was a breeding ground for lessons to be learned. Look how much better we are at articulating our viewpoints now than back then. I've thought of starting another thread over there, but....it will probably still be the same closed minded group of people.

[dr1819]

HA! Wow, that experiment over at ELLE.com was a disaster, but it was a breeding ground for lessons to be learned. Look how much better we are at articulating our viewpoints now than back then.

I've thought of starting another thread over there, but....it will probably still be the same closed minded group of people.

Amazingly enough, kneehighs, I've found their response since around November 2005 to be at least as supportive as diminuative.

[Guy N. Heels]

there seem to be people that don`t mind an people with very closed minds as well, i think , if they say a man is gay just cause he wears heels they need to wake up an smell the coffee, cause the world is changing and if they don`t it will leave them behind.

i can`t stand people that label others "gay" just because they do something or wear sumthing out of the ordinary, like heels. the are just stupid if they think fashion can only go one way, when it clearly goes both ways. if women can wear mens clothes/shoes/jewellery, then men can wear womens stuff as well.

better stop before this gets to long.

later

nhoj62

I agree that minds, like parachutes, work best when open. But I would like to make one clarification - based upon my study of history, it is not men who are "stealing" women's fashions, but rather, it is the women who have decided to take over men's fashions and then scream foul at the men. I think a little honesty would help clarify a whole lot.

[Dawn HH]

I like and agree with your point, Guy N. Heels. Cheers--- Dawn HH