dheel Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I often wonder if there are a lot of men who would secretly like to wear women's shoes, but don't even consider it a possibility. I know there are people like me, who don't have the guts to wear what they want in public, but think about it all the time, and wonder why it's not acceptable, and wish society had a different attitude. But I wonder if there are others who WOULD wear women's shoes, but they never even think about it - I mean, the idea doesn't even cross their mind - because they just accept the male/female division in the department stores as an unquestionable rule. Do you think there are a lot of men like that? I mean, if there was no pressure from society to conform, if there were no male/female divisions in the stores, what percentage of the male population do you think would wear high heels? Or even flat shoes that are more elegant and attractive? Would men still choose to wear ugly shoes? Or are a lot of men open to more interesting styles? Any thoughts or guesses on this? "No matter what they say" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie001 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Do not worry about the fact that they are women's shoes. Just wear your high heels with pride! After all, women incorporate and wear men's fashion all of the time. There is nothing wrong with wearing women's fashion items including shoes. After you are confident with walking in your heels, just put them on and go about your normal business. If anyone aske you why you are wearing women's high heels, just tell them that you like high heels. It is realy that simple. We have a choice. We can go throught life like sheep letting society dictate what we can and cannot wear. Women had the courage to break through this artificial barrier many decades ago and now can wear any clothing that they desire. I wonder if men have the same courage? Jamie Fashion Freedom for Men!! Jamie Fashion Freedom for Men!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs2wearthighboots Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I fully agree with you jamie, I just decide what I like to wear, and when it comes to buying footwear I go out of my way to AVOID the "mens" side of the store!! most people don't say anything to me, a few do look @ me and the rest if they ASK me the same kide of question I'll answer like you do (if they saying stupid or rude things I ofcourse ignore them all together) I feel as you do and many others in here that it IS a matter of having the guts to wear what they want you can bet a lot DO secretly wish they could wear them but do'nt ever want others to KNOW that they would like to WEAR heels!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk4625 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Would men still choose to wear ugly shoes? Rossi in "The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe" mentions that a shipment of American shoes arriving in Italy at the end of World War II was refused because, The people, despite their critical need, would not wear them. Those sturdy but sexless American shoes ran so counter to the more exotic tastes of their culture that they preferred to go shoeless. Sometimes I'm horrified by the vintage American boy's shoes offered for sale on eBay. With their heavily nailed soles and heels, they are similar in construction to the rude boots worn by laborers. I started school in 1961 and remember that some of my schoolmates were forced to wear them. Is it characteristic of American men's shoes in particular to be ugly? I have seen photographs of European schoolboys of my age group in T-strap slippers (resembling girl's shoes) that look a lot nicer than those abominations some of us had to wear. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Mass production is the reason. On wearing heels, you have to have "it". If you don't have "it" or lose your "it" you can't wear heels. Most men don't have "it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Very descriptive, Slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highluc Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 "It" doesn't matter, I just like "it". Be youself, enjoy any footwear you like and don't care about what others think about it, it's your life, not theirs. Greetings from Laurence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I can worry about society later. Right now I have to convince my wife and that is proving difficult enough. Everyone should wear boots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to do things, but daren't because of 'pressure from society'. I meet a lot of people in my work, and I'm sure that more than once I've been there in mundane shoes, and so are they, and we'd both rather be in our exotic heels. But how do you start it? I'm too dependent on my EPMs to go for it in a really big way, so I've no idea how to take it from here. On the other hand, "They're not women's shoes, they're mine!" Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 It's the "it" which is the key to what it means to have "it" isn't it? :drinking: Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to do things, but daren't because of 'pressure from society'. I meet a lot of people in my work, and I'm sure that more than once I've been there in mundane shoes, and so are they, and we'd both rather be in our exotic heels. But how do you start it? I'm too dependent on my EPMs to go for it in a really big way, so I've no idea how to take it from here. On the other hand, "They're not women's shoes, they're mine!" I've thought about this a lot, that you could be standing talking with a like-minded person, and you don't say anything because you're both thinking that the other is a 'regular' person. It's almost as if we should take a leaf out of the Mason's book and have a 'heely handshake' or something. -- I know I'd wear a small pinbadge or whatever on a jacket that identifies me as heel-friendly (any random small design would do, just as long as we all* know what it means) [* But only 'us', though it would probably be unworkable, but nice in theory] slightlyOT: I'm sure there's another TV at work -- I mean 20+ coders, even statistically there has to be more than just me; I'm just trying to work out who the other one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelheels Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 On the other hand, "They're not women's shoes, they're mine!" I've used that phrase many times "in defence" of wearing heels during a discussion. But normally there's no need... the discussion dies out and everyone just gets and seems to be accepting. I'm sure if people weren't accepting they'd say something. I've wondered that before... I'm sure there must be another heel wearer/TV/CD at college... there are 1100 students there. Statistically, how many TVs/CDs are there supposed to be? Does anyone know? SH Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your sig and help me spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 I've wondered that before... I'm sure there must be another heel wearer/TV/CD at college... there are 1100 students there. Statistically, how many TVs/CDs are there supposed to be? Does anyone know? SH IIRC FireFox mentioned that he belives it to be around 1 in 200? guys have an (at least latent) interest in heels. http://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqtransgendered.html Estimates an incidence rate up to 50%! for males that have crossdressed. A http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=406&aid=-1 Slashdot poll recons about 12% of the population are TG (but considering the site, I'd guess that mainly counts english-speaking geek males!) But all that proves is that the numbers are inconclusive! SH: your guess is as good as mine, but there has to be more than just you, and I do belive that it's around 10%. & I'll reply to your mail tonight -- I've been busy this week. AndyB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Do you think there are a lot of men like that? I mean, if there was no pressure from society to conform, if there were no male/female divisions in the stores, what percentage of the male population do you think would wear high heels? Or even flat shoes that are more elegant and attractive? Would men still choose to wear ugly shoes? Or are a lot of men open to more interesting styles? Any thoughts or guesses on this? Hi dheels, I'm convinced that you and me are still a small minority. I guess: in public we are much less than 1 percent of the male population. The most guys only dare to wear women shoes secretely at home. I think, it's the fear to be considered as gay or as crossdresser. We all here know that the most male heel wearers are normal heterosexual people. But many of us don't trust that normal people know it too. I hope that my daily performances on heels will contribute to a change of this sad situation micha PS I don't care for this ridiculous fear because I'm gay The best fashion is your own fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I'm sure that there's many people out there firmly welded into their closets, perhaps even looking at those of us who are a little more 'out there' with real jealousy. But how to communicate with these people? My only idea is to keep going for it and hope that they pluck up the courage to come and ask about it. I went to a gay pub with a gay friend once. There were many young men around, in makeup, cross-dressed, etc. A really wild atmosphere, and I had a good time. But in the corner was a sad-looking older (55?) man, just nursing a pint, and looking. I guess he was just wishing that he could be out there with the rest of them. It's that kind of thing that makes me feel rather sorry for people. I think we're lucky to have a forum like this - life in heels is easier knowing that I'm not the only person who feels like this. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I gave the wrong impression -- I meant that the number of people with an interest is probably quite high, but agree with Micha that the actual people on the street are very few and far between (OK. my numbers are way off ) Micha, Yamyam: The board does help, and I'm 'gas-axe'ing myself from the closet But even two of my closest friends who know me really well had to ask if I was gay when I said that I like to wear heels - It's sad that the attitude's that well entrenched. I hope I can eventually contribute to changing that view, because I don't want to be that sad older man. AndyB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyguy Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 sorry all, but I'm stuck firmly in the closet. Love heels, but only in the safety of my own home Shyguy cluck cluck no one in this closet but us chickens He was so narrow minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes. Brown's Law: If the shoe fits, it's ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 sorry all, but I'm stuck firmly in the closet. Love heels, but only in the safety of my own home Shyguy cluck cluck no one in this closet but us chickens Why sorry? If it works for you, then there you are. Just because I've spent all weekend out and about in heels doesn't mean that you have to as well! For me, this is about getting to be cool with what I want to do. I hope that I'm helping other people be cool with what they want. I hope you (or indeed anyone else) doesn't think that I'm insisting you get out there and tell the world! I hope that me and my stories help people to get to their happy places. If yours is the living room, then be there and be happy. Me, I'm good with strolling around a market in a town centre in mine. But that's my happy place. Shyguy: Don't feel sorry for being there in your happy place. Be happy, that's what it's about. All I will say is that I think it's good to stretch yourself - you might find a new and bigger happy place. I have - perhaps others will. If I was going to be stern about it, then all I'll say is 'don't be like the old guy in the pub.' Be in your happy place, where ever and when ever it is. That's all from me. (Climbs carefully down from soapbox, due to the wearing of 4" wedgies) Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I gave the wrong impression -- I meant that the number of people with an interest is probably quite high, but agree with Micha that the actual people on the street are very few and far between (OK. my numbers are way off ) Micha, Yamyam: The board does help, and I'm 'gas-axe'ing myself from the closet But even two of my closest friends who know me really well had to ask if I was gay when I said that I like to wear heels - It's sad that the attitude's that well entrenched. I hope I can eventually contribute to changing that view, because I don't want to be that sad older man. AndyB. Hi Andy, I don't want to play the role of this older man too. I prefer to live my passions. That's the reason why I've lost nearly all my inhibitions. Too many years of my life I have lived adjusted to the expectations of the world around me. I am happy to have found this forum! It's really encourageing for me to know that I'm not alone. I wish, I could feel this also in my daily life. Yes, the majority accepts me and tolerates my "spleen". But I'm always the only one guy on heels... micha The best fashion is your own fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Shyguy: Don't feel sorry for being there in your happy place. Be happy, that's what it's about. I agree, and would like to add: take heart in the fact that it's possible to change the way you view yourself, even very slowly. But enjoy where you are at _NOW_ rather than where you want to be, then happiness comes all by itself, and progress is consequential. micha, yamyam: I'm lucky enough to have a friend I've known for about 8 years that has absolutely no problem with me as a transvestite (didn't even blink when I told him recently), let alone guy in heels. And that's really cool, but a story for another thread. AndyB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 One of my dearest friends is a transsexual guy (she to male). He was the first I dared to show my heels. He accepted it at once although he likes male biker boots more than my feminine heels (*grin*). I never expected another reaction of him. That's the reason why he is one of my best friends! Iknow him for almost 20 years, but this is also a story for another thread . nice greetings micha The best fashion is your own fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelheels Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 You often get good reactions from people that you least expect a good reaction. I've had that a few times before where I've suddenly realised that they probably wouldn't react that badly, so I've gone for it and it's been much better than I expected! Whether this is because they are a heel wearer themselves or not, I don't know, although it seems unlikely. Many people are open minded, but they just don't want to show it, so they show closed-mindedness... SH Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your sig and help me spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 It's true! My Dad, Stepmom and brother were just cool with it. My long-standing mates in Hertfordshire were cool with it too. I haven't had a negative comment from anyone I've spoken to, certainly not from anyone I've told. And even if I had, the positive comments would more than balance the negative ones! Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 There's 1 person I may tell in the future and I think she'll be ok with it. I wish I was a size 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 There's 1 person I may tell in the future and I think she'll be ok with it. Go for it. To be honest, the fear is the worst bit. I'm sure someone genuinely close will be able to take it on and be cool about it. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelheels Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 All this makes it sound worse than if you were telling someone you were gay. All it is is a choice of footwear, not sexuality and lifestyle! So why does it seem such a big thing when really when it comes down to it, it's just a different style of footwear?! It's mad... SH Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your sig and help me spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 All this makes it sound worse than if you were telling someone you were gay.SH What's wrong with telling someone you're gay? It's not 'better' or 'worse'. After all, gay people are people too. As are us non-pink people. It's just different. I remember telling a gay acquaintance many years ago: 'It's _easy_ for you - when you walk down the street, no-one knows you're gay!' And he replied with something that makes me smile, ten years later: 'Ah, but you didn't have to tell your parents that you're black!' All it is is a choice of footwear, not sexuality and lifestyle! So why does it seem such a big thing when really when it comes down to it, it's just a different style of footwear?! It's mad... Sorry, SH, but it's not quite like that, IMHO. People may well think it *is* a sexuality and lifestyle thing. And even if they don't, it's still a big thing to tell people, it's still 'coming out', it's still something that some people are quite messed up about. Yeah, it's easier for those of us who've managed to tell people, who are out there, but to say that this is a smaller issue than sexuality... I don't think so. Apart from anything else, I think that as long as there's a generally accepted label for something, it's easy. It's like: "OK, you're gay, no problem." "OK, you're bisexual, no problem." "OK, you want to change gender, no problem." "OK, you want to live in a commune, no problem." But when it's something more like you want freedom to wear the shoes you love, but you don't fit into a nice easy category, hence the problem. Hence years I've had of trying to work out what I am. At the risk of sounding like one of the four Yorkshiremen, I never had this site when I was trying to work out what the heck was going on inside me. I'd never call this easy. Explaining to loved ones that you're not quite like they thought can be hard. But, SH, and others, please please please don't think I'm having a go at someone. I'm not. All I'm saying is that some things that seem easy to some of us are really huge big serious fscked-up stuff to others. I think that all we can do is remember that heeling down a busy shopping centre is second nature to some - and a dream that's a million miles off to others. Let's not forget we're all different! Part of what this is about is celebrating each other's achievements, and helping people to achieve more. Let's not disrespect other's efforts, let's not make out it's easy. I nearly died telling my brother - and I'm sure that some people who aren't as lucky as me have it worse. And I'm at least as guilty as others here, so I'm awarding myself a slap on the wrist too. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelheels Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I totally understand what you're saying yamyam - It just seems crazy that it has to be this twisted way when it's just some extra rubber (or metal) under your shoe. I do understand how difficult it is for some people. I had problems telling people, and for quite a while I was stuck in a closet. But I had the opporunity to "come out" and I wasn't about to refuse it - after all, I have a life to live, and I'd rather no live it in a closet. And I know coming out of the closet ain't easy... especially if people are leaning against the door! (Ok... taking an analogy too far there!) SH Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your sig and help me spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Sorry, SH, but it's not quite like that, IMHO. People may well think it *is* a sexuality and lifestyle thing. And even if they don't, it's still a big thing to tell people, it's still 'coming out', it's still something that some people are quite messed up about. Yeah, it's easier for those of us who've managed to tell people, who are out there, but to say that this is a smaller issue than sexuality... I don't think so. I can only speak for myself, but It is something you get really messed up about, and was from like 17 when the whole 'impact on life' dawned, until I started accepting it at 22. Telling people can help, but you have to have a certain level of security first. Your milage may vary. Apart from anything else, I think that as long as there's a generally accepted label for something, it's easy. That's the whole point -- it's what the general populace percieve, and what they'll label you with that counts. I could describe my preferred mode of dress as 'Goth', 'Androdgny' or 'freestyle', but anyone who sees me wearing a skirt [1] will simply think 'transvestite' (or crossdresser) and then think of all the (unjustified) sexual baggage that comes with the term. And the more I use another word, the more they'll think I have somthing to hide, so why bother fighting it?, simply re-define what they assoicate with the T-word by setting a good example [2] [1] Skirt, blouse, whatever's comfortable. [2] Pete Burns, Eddie Izzard, and to a lesser extent, David Becham. At the risk of sounding like one of the four Yorkshiremen, I never had this site when I was trying to work out what the heck was going on inside me. I'd never call this easy. Explaining to loved ones that you're not quite like they thought can be hard. I'd agree, although we (early-mid 20s and younger) have it easier because sites like this exist, the net wasnt ubiquitous back in '96, and there's an awful lot of psycobabble crap out there. (nod to the TS people tho, they've got it rougher than anyone else.) headfsck reigns supreme. All I'm trying to do is help people become comfortable with themselves, and in the process work myself out. Gruß AndyB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvs2wearthighboots Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Micha, I feel most confortable wearing my heels (platforms mostly) out & about all the time as well in the house! I am PROUD to wear the style that I love and I dont have the time to worry (or to keep count if you will) of everyone who looks @ my choice of footwear as I'm, walking along minding my own affairs nor do I care what they may be thinking as I pass them (or them me) I am learning that life is just way too short to really care what strangers think of me in my boots. thanks, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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