Firefox Posted January 28, 2002 Posted January 28, 2002 This subject was raised by Laurie in another thread, but I thought it merited a thread all of its own. Which side of the fence do you fall on? Does the increasing freedom in society mean that the guys are trespassing on the girl's territory. Does the fact that men might wear high heels mean that the mystique of a woman in them is somehow compromised? Should some things be set aside for society for the sole use of women to express their feminine identity? On the other hand, did women give up that "right" when they claimed many male such as jeans or business suits for regular wear themselves? Can, or should we ever go back to the 1950's where to wear fashions outside what was imposed, was seen as a fair reason for ostracism by society? This subject has caused controversy on the boards before, but I'm sure we can debate it in a reasoned manner without things getting out of hand. In the end, some of us are probably going to disagree, but at least we will have listened each others' arguments
Trolldeg Posted January 28, 2002 Posted January 28, 2002 Since terms like 'feminine-' or 'masculine-' identitys are just social roles that opress us all in some way, their destruction can only be a good thing. I still find girls mysterious and exiting, even though I wear the highest heels in school.
Calv Posted January 28, 2002 Posted January 28, 2002 I have seen a post today on another board (Chris's Atrium) which says that as men (not us though) tend to shun anything remotely feminine they are slowly losing the freedom to wear more and more clothes without standing out from the common herd. Think about it, once a fashion is accepted as being feminine men no longer accept it, and those that do are labelled as strange by the masses. An example of this is high heeled boots. In the 1970's these were unisex styles. This time round they are purely feminine styles. Why? who decided. Another example was published in todays UK papers - It has been suggested in Germany that chancellor Gerhard Schroeder dies his hair - shock horror. Why should this be an issue, when a large proportion of the female race die their hair with nothing said. Double standards here. Do your own thing. Don't be a victim of conformity. Calv
jim Posted January 29, 2002 Posted January 29, 2002 Come on guys, leave the high heels for the girls.... (choke).. never!
IHeels Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 Hey guys, I've probably said this before I dont have a problem with guy's wearing heels, but they have to be able to walk in them properly not just clump around. Walking properly requires suppleness, most guys don't have this. (especially at first - just might stir up some conversation here) As to wearing jeans, if worn properly these can be used to great effect to highlight femininity how one ask's, by wearing - the only way ultra tight (I wear many of my skirts that way also). In all, the world (western) is a bit more casual now than it was 50 years ago. Inga <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: IHeels on 2002-01-31 12:14 ]</font> HEELS are POWER the HIGHER the BETTER.
xaphod Posted February 2, 2002 Posted February 2, 2002 Suppleness comes from practice in wearing heels. You will see teenage girls with their first 3" heels 'clumping around'. Now, for some guys, they are starting their hh practice later in life, so they don't have the suppleness of young limbs. They will take longer to adjust. I've been wearing heels inside since I left home in 1974. Some of the early shoes were a little crazy, but, thankfully, the style settled down a bit. For outside wearing, I started out a little differently from most, wearing cowboy boots with a 2.5" heel when this was relatively mainstream style for guys. For another few years I wore Bertulli lifts, which rated about 3/10 compared with a decent pair of 4" blocks. So when I started wearing heels outside in the Autumn of '98, I already had a certain amount of practice and flexibility. A couple of days ago, wearing a pair of 4.5" spiky sachas, I was complimented on the way I walked in them, admittedly by a couple of shop assistants who were trying to sell me MORE shoes.
jbmajoor Posted February 3, 2002 Posted February 3, 2002 It is good when you post messages from the other side. But I disagree with this opinion "high heels are only for girls". History will learning us that men always wear heels. Heels were a symbol of upperclass in the Louis XIV-period. In the 70s, block heels under men's shoes were widely availble. You can see it when you see old color-TV recordings. And, why have the writer of this opinion the right to say this is for men and this is for women. It sounds like "my freedom ends when freedom from another people begins". I don't like this thoughts, wear what you like, espacially what you like very much. Woman Boots, queen of the shoes
Charlie Posted February 3, 2002 Posted February 3, 2002 I have to say that I totally agree with Calv's assesment of the entire situation. There is no "fashion God" who dictates daily what us men can wear. Our worst enemy is ourselves! It is the fear of any hint of femininity that drives men's fashions closer and closer to wearing only burlap bags and workboots! I think the vast majority of us guys can recall having that horrible "feminine" label being used against us by our fathers whenever they thought we should be a bit tougher. That's where this mindset starts. Charlie Everything I say is a lie!.......I'm lying
Firefox Posted February 3, 2002 Author Posted February 3, 2002 My experience is that girls are generally quite cool with the idea. That's because it is misinterepreted by some misguided people (of both sexes) as something that gays do whereas it is nothing to do with sexuality and the guys that wear are mostly het, the same as the population is mostly het. However, there are more homophobe men than there are homophobe women so more men take a more negative attitude. (a)They are wrong about the gay thing, and ( They are homophobes as well. One has to pity these poor people.
Platformdude Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Truly a provocative topic. I believe most have already hit on the answer. Men and women should be able to wear whatever they feel comfortable with. I also agree with those who say that men are painting themselves into a corner in the fashion world; as women take over every look and style, men will be relegated to either gray flannel suits or battle fatigues as the only acceptably masculine clothing. This is definitely a problem in the USA; most young men affect the "generic minority" hiphop look, with the super baggy oversize clothing that seems to have become almost a uniform. So much for "individuality"... Be different, think for yourself, wear what appeals to you.
Laurieheels Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 My only comment is about individuality. Sometimes I feel that I would like to be the only one in heels. Why? To stand out, to be different. I do not like to conform. I do wish for men to be free in expression. Sometimes I feel that if men wear stiletto heels in public, that it would take away from me and what I am trying to do in an attempt to be different. It's a tough line to walk. Support non conformity and free choice, but do not support it when it threatens my own non conformity and free choice. Everyone should just live life and be themselves. I may need to find a safe way to blend ultra fem and goth and still go to work without risk of being fired. I only have one day a year to do this, and next time it's Hallowe'en, I'd rather wear a costume and not just my own clothes in a way that makes it look like a costume. We all have goals. So let's just go for them, and those who really need to be different can find a way to survive.
Trolldeg Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Laurie - there's not just *one* way to wear heels. Even if someone else wears heels as high and thin as yours, there are so many other things that come together and make the look. I doubt any guy would wear heels the same way as you do.
Laurieheels Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Okay, so there is no one way to wear heels, you're right, but it isn't that, it is about anyone even coming close, or even in the same universe. However, you are right that men could not wear heels the way I do. I don't think men wish to wiggle as they walk and flaunt their freaky cool attitude. Still, I hate crowds and trends. I like stiletto heels. Crowds really make me feel lost as an individual, as if I do not matter. Maybe this is why I have developed a desire for styles that are still very classy, sexy and feminine, but different. All of these women at work have boots. Everywhere boots. Boots to the knees, with many styles of heel. I would not buy a pair, lest I blend in. So it's something other women do not wear for most of my days at work, four inch heeled oxfords. We who post here may realize that there are differences between two different people wearing the same pair of shoes, but North American society is, well, conformist and trendy, and they do not look at the differences, just the similarities. That's why I am nervous about this whole heels being super popular idea. It would be great for all of us, but how high would I have to go before the numbed souls could see me as different from the woman next to me? Society is too general, too boring, to ever stop fighting the trends.
Slim Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Laurie, I know how you feel, I really don't care to see other men in heels, I lose my advantage. Anyway I don't want some jerk wearing them. Now girls are a different story, I like women in heels, pumps and sling backs etc. Boots can look good but most of the ones today look like they were made by or for a Cat Diesel. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Slim on 2002-02-09 21:17 ]</font> <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Slim on 2002-02-09 21:18 ]</font>
Jeff Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 Laurie, Even if all the women start wearing high heels again (I wish...), you can still make a difference by choosing different styles than what is commonly worn. I think there's always a possibility to be different if you want to. It doesn't have to be in just the height of the heel.. Call me selfish, but I for one, wouldn't mind at all, seeing and meeting more girls like yourself and the other gals on the board here. Greetz, Jeff --- "She's going shopping, shopping for shoe-oe-oe-oes She wants them in magenta and Caribbean blue-ue-ue-ue" - Imelda, Mark Knopfler
Trolldeg Posted February 9, 2002 Posted February 9, 2002 No matter how trendy heels may be, you have to be a bit of an addict to wear the really high ones. You don't see many people in 5" heels.
Firefox Posted February 9, 2002 Author Posted February 9, 2002 A woman wearing heels can be a jerk the same way as a guy can. It's not the shoes but the person that counts. Also, I think it's strange that people are relying on heels for their individuality. In the end it's just a first impression, something small about you as a person. But your true character and personality has little to do with your footwear. I say this as a person who is deeply interested in shoes, otherwise why would I be an admin on this board? However, the shoes are just a small facet. We're all different individuals beneath our outward appearances so don't get carried away by the shoes
Laurieheels Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 This is one of those days when no one understands me at all... Shoes are not my only means of self expression, but they are a part of it. It's important to me. And if how I feel shouldn't matter, then what does? If high heels are the fashion trend, then it will not be easy to find a different style. Everyone has to understand I am quite limited in what I can purchase in life. No I cannot mail order, and no, this is not a city where these shoes are easy to find. Shoes are a matter of personal expression for me. If someone does not like it, meet me out in the alley in five minutes, please. No one grasps the fact that to be different for me exists on all levels. My personality is already quirky and certainly different, but it isn't enough for me. I should express it in other ways than just being the silly girl. My point is that I would feel as if I lost one of those ways if everyone else was wearing something similar to what I was wearing. It is a society of sheep and I have to fight against that. WHY? It's who I am, and I'd rather not change this part of me. I like it, it's fun, except for when no one understands how I feel. Hey, story of my life, I suppose!
Slim Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Self-expression? In my case I have no choice, I don’t try to be different, I just am. The things I do are as basic as my nose or baldhead. I have tried to change and can't. A couple of weeks ago a female friend, commenting on my ADD dyslexia, said “why it extends right down to your high heels”. I was wearing an unusually spiky pair of pointed toe boots when she made the comment. Sometimes you just have except things and get on with it.
hoverfly Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 You know Laurieheels, I bet this is a similar individually issue in what men also went through at one time with women. This was when women started to wear jeans and dress pants in public. This was at a time when skirts were the only actable form of clothing for a women in the U.S.A. When a women wiggles and struts around with or with out heels, men notice. There are other advantages that a women have to use that men don't have. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-02-10 19:37 ]</font> Hello, my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee! 👠1998 to 2022!
hoverfly Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 On 2002-02-10 18:57, Slim wrote: Self-expression? In my case I have no choice, I don’t try to be different, I just am. The things I do are as basic as my nose or baldhead. I have tried to change and can't. A couple of weeks ago a female friend, commenting on my ADD dyslexia, said “why it extends right down to your high heels”. I was wearing an unusually spiky pair of pointed toe boots when she made the comment. Sometimes you just have except things and get on with it. Slim I am sorry that female friend subjected you to such negativity. I am ADHD and learning disabled myself. I can't see in what you wear caused that remark!!!! :???: If I was subjected to that remark, that friend might halved received the golden toe award right out the door of my life. But, actually I would halved a one on one talk with her to tell her how deeply inappropriate that comment was. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-02-10 20:05 ]</font> Hello, my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee! 👠1998 to 2022!
Slim Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 No, she was just commenting on a fact, not a jab at all! It is so,it cannot be otherwise!
hoverfly Posted February 10, 2002 Posted February 10, 2002 Ah....Now I see it. Ooops...sorry. One thing about having a dissibility, it can give you the ability to see things diffrently form the rest of the crowd. Keeps us open minded. But just like anbody else we can still be short sighted. Hello, my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee! 👠1998 to 2022!
Bob Posted February 14, 2002 Posted February 14, 2002 I say let us all wear what we want, then perhaps it'll be easier for us to be individualistic in what we wear and not less so Who say's that men can only wear this and women only wear that! Such a mind set is i believe wholly inappropriate for a supposedly enlightened society in the 3rd Millenium! If I want to wear heels I shall, and if I want to wear skirts i'll wear them too and like firefox said, pity anyone who is so taken with following the crowd that they become "homophobic" (of course like most of society i'm as hetero as the next person but that really isn't the issue here ) I guess that maybe sometime in the future we'll look upon discussion's like this with fondness and say "Did we really have to fight to win the right for men and women to dress how they wanted?" and feel glad that the right was won, here's hoping .... Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex
stremph Posted February 20, 2002 Posted February 20, 2002 I have absolutely no interest in seeing men wearing high heels. I'm actually kind of bored with the whole "genderless" thing. Men are men and women are women. We chop wood and wear ties and unscrew pickle jars. Women breastfeed and wear high heels and pass the pickle jars to us. And that's a beautiful thing. Disclosure: I once wore a pair of heels and was not pleased with what I saw in the mirror. It was just so wrong. The sight of a man in heels is, to me at least, like seeing Hitler dressed up as a rabbi.
stremph Posted February 20, 2002 Posted February 20, 2002 The notion that gender roles are "oppressive" is such a European concept. Everyone's a victim. And the notion that a man can "liberate" himself from such oppression by wearing women's shoes is hard to swallow. And, labelling men (such as myself) who disagree with male high heel-wearing as "homophobic" is an act of pure prejudice. I hate seeing flip-flops on women (and men). What kind of "phobic" does that make me?
Bob Posted February 20, 2002 Posted February 20, 2002 I'm not trying to say that anyone is phobic but certainly some are. As far as gender roles are concerned I wouldn't say that the notion that they are oppresive is perculiarly European, women around the world have been fighting to emancipate themselves for over a century, and many good men have joined in that struggle, perhaps it is time that men tried to emancipate themselves from themselves And of course, 200 years ago in Europe, men wore the high heels, tights and make-up :eek: Man is born in freedom, but soon becomes enslaved, in cages of convention from the cradle to the grave - Jeff Waynes War Of The Worlds/Sung by David Essex
Firefox Posted February 20, 2002 Author Posted February 20, 2002 Quote: "We chop wood and wear ties and unscrew pickle jars" There are plenty of women who also want to chop wood and unscrew pickle jars. Does your opinion extend to frowning upon their right to undertake such activities?
IHeels Posted February 20, 2002 Posted February 20, 2002 Hiya Firefox, What are you doing here taking uummm lyric's from the Lumberjack song (or it sounds that way). Inga HEELS are POWER the HIGHER the BETTER.
Firefox Posted February 20, 2002 Author Posted February 20, 2002 Hiya Inga. I know you don't have a problem with that personally, but the original quote was from Stremph, so I was asking if his opinion extended to thinking that women should stick to passing the pickle jar rather than ever embracing the unscrewing thereof. (off topic: yes his quote did sound like something fronm the lumberjack song, but I don't think any pun was intended there ) _________________ Believe in your right to wear what you want <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firefox on 2002-02-20 15:21 ]</font>
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