Dr. Shoe Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 It struck me today that the definition of fascisim is being told what to think. Isn't political correctness exactly like that? Throw in the big global warming issue and we are living in a fascist world. Discuss... Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Ozzard Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 the definition of fascisim is being told what to think Could you show me a reputable source that defines fascism that way? The sources I've seen typically define it along the lines of it being: - a totalitarian political system - led by a single dictator who allows no opposition - promoting an aggressive nationalism and often racism. Totalitarian political systems, like all others, work on the basis of "might is right". They can stop any observable behaviour by coming down on it like a ton of bricks - oh, sorry, a tonne of bricks, we can't use imperial measures over here any more. They can't stop you thinking whatever you wish. PC is independent of fascism, I would argue. I'd also argue that the definition of Mass Media is being told what to think, but that's just me. I've now left HHPlace. Feel free to use the means listed in my profile if you wish to contact me.
jmc Posted March 24, 2007 Posted March 24, 2007 Nevertheless, Political Correctness is an attempt to curb free speech. "You are free to say whatever you want as long as you don't offend me. And I'm going to establish such a broad definition of offense that anything with which I don't agree becomes offensive." It's balderdash. Have a happy time!
Dr. Shoe Posted March 24, 2007 Author Posted March 24, 2007 Could you show me a reputable source that defines fascism that way? The sources I've seen typically define it along the lines of it being: - a totalitarian political system - led by a single dictator who allows no opposition - promoting an aggressive nationalism and often racism. Totalitarian political systems, like all others, work on the basis of "might is right". They can stop any observable behaviour by coming down on it like a ton of bricks - oh, sorry, a tonne of bricks, we can't use imperial measures over here any more. They can't stop you thinking whatever you wish. PC is independent of fascism, I would argue. I'd also argue that the definition of Mass Media is being told what to think, but that's just me. Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology and the antithesis of political liberalism. -It is possible to have a non-fascist totalitarian society. Look at communism, that's totalitarian (single party state) but the whole ethos of communism is built on inclusiveness- in other words total political correctness. -"Political Correctness" is an instrument of opposition oppression. Anyone who doesn't agree with policy is racist, ageist, environmetally damaging, etc. This is the ideal tool for one who is or wants to be a dictator. Suppose racism itself was a criminal offence...? -There are all sorts of different kinds of fascism. Mussolini's fascism was totally different from Hitler's Nazism. Besides, it is possible to be a nationalist without being a fascist... Doesn't political correctness depend on "might is right"? Otherwise everyone would ignore it and we simply wouldn't have it. I don't think anyone would argue with your definition of Mass Media either, another name for it is propaganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm etc. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
crotchhiboots Posted March 24, 2007 Posted March 24, 2007 This is another form of censorship and sutle mind control, if it isn't spoken about it isn't thought about. I for one think that all forms of expression whether artistic, progressive or conservative vewpoints should be aired. Who decides what is politicly correct? Enquirering minds want to know? 77r90dL lf
Guy N. Heels Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology and the antithesis of political liberalism. ...There are all sorts of different kinds of fascism. Mussolini's fascism was totally different from Hitler's Nazism. Besides, it is possible to be a nationalist without being a fascist... ...I don't think anyone would argue with your definition of Mass Media either, another name for it is propaganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm etc. AHEM, I sincerely hope that you lot realize that such matters SIMPLY ARE NOT DISCUSSED!! ;) In reality all of the "isms" are simply variations on a central theme. It's rather like going to a car dealer where the sales person can show you a coupe', or a sedan, or a stationwagon, or perhaps you fancy a hardtop, or even a convertible! Maybe you would prefer air conditioning, or perhaps you would also like stereo - the variatrions are almost endless, but the one thing you will never have is FREEDOM!! Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
Firefox Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Can you ever tell anyone what to think with any sucess, unless you count indoctrination of childern early in their life? It seems to me an ideal which would stall very quickly. Trying to get people to act in a certain way is easier to police.
jmc Posted March 25, 2007 Posted March 25, 2007 Can you ever tell anyone what to think with any sucess, unless you count indoctrination of childern early in their life? It seems to me an ideal which would stall very quickly. Trying to get people to act in a certain way is easier to police. That's the achilles' heel (remember where we are :-) ) of totalitarian societies. Have a happy time!
Dr. Shoe Posted March 25, 2007 Author Posted March 25, 2007 Indoctrination is about right. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
HeelD Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I personally think the whole "political correctness" issue is caused by councils scared of lawsuits, council jobsworths with nothing to do but come with stuff thinking it'll make things better, and all whipped up by the press as some sort of government conspiracy to make us all walk on egg shells around different sexes, sexualities and races. When in fact, people will think what they want and the only way to change one's opinion on something, for example homosexuality, is through constructive arguments. People's opinions do change, but you can't force them to change - this only makes them dig their heels in more. Heel-D - Freestyling since 2005
Guy N. Heels Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 I personally think the whole "political correctness" issue is caused by councils scared of lawsuits, council jobsworths with nothing to do but come with stuff thinking it'll make things better, and all whipped up by the press as some sort of government conspiracy to make us all walk on egg shells around different sexes, sexualities and races. When in fact, people will think what they want and the only way to change one's opinion on something, for example homosexuality, is through constructive arguments. People's opinions do change, but you can't force them to change - this only makes them dig their heels in more. Close, but not quite. The real problem revolves around the fact that most leaders in this day and time lack the fortitude to take a stand, or stand up for what's right. They would rather call evil good and good evil than to risk stepping on some toes. Perhaps the matter is best illustrated in the musical comedy Best Little Whorehouse in Texas when the governor can't seem to make a decision until he gets all the faxes and phone calls tallied. First he goes into a song and dance routine: "I like to Sidestep". Then he "decides" what the people want. However, there are times when even the majority of the people are wrong and a leader with fortitude needs to act to do the right thing. That's what is in pretty short supply these days. Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
Ozzard Posted March 27, 2007 Posted March 27, 2007 The real problem revolves around the fact that most leaders in this day and time lack the fortitude to take a stand, or stand up for what's right. And then you get folks like Dubya and Blair, who most certainly have the fortitude to make a stand - and (in my opinion) have both managed to foul up considerably more spectacularly than those who go for consensus. Consensus politics, like democracy, is the politics of mediocrity. It's rare to get a decision that seems superb in retrospect, but it's also rare to get one that seems absolutely crazy. Conviction politics, on the other hand, allows the full range from genius to lunacy. I'd rather be protected from the lunatics. But then, I am an utter moral relativist - I do not believe one can "stand up for what's right" because I do not believe it is possible to define absolute notions of right, wrong, good or evil. I rather suspect Guy N. Heels and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here. I've now left HHPlace. Feel free to use the means listed in my profile if you wish to contact me.
Dr. Shoe Posted March 27, 2007 Author Posted March 27, 2007 PC has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy means majority Concencus whereas political correctness does nothing but pander to the minorities. Political correctness means that an employer has to employ a black or asian worker regardless of suitability or aptitude. Political correctness means that girls have the choice of skirts or trousers to school and boys have no choice. Political Correctness means that a business owner has to install a chairlift in his premises for disabled staff despite the fact that he has no disabled staff and someone who is too disabled to climb stairs wouldn't be able to do the job anyway... Political Correctness means we have to apologise to black people because of a practice that ended 200 years ago. That's a bit like the Italians apologizing on behalf of Caligula... I'm all for equality and fairness but how can anyone ever justify a system that places the desires of a minority over the needs of a majority? Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Guy N. Heels Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 PC has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy means majority Concencus whereas political correctness does nothing but pander to the minorities. Political correctness means that an employer has to employ a black or asian worker regardless of suitability or aptitude. Political correctness means that girls have the choice of skirts or trousers to school and boys have no choice. Political Correctness means that a business owner has to install a chairlift in his premises for disabled staff despite the fact that he has no disabled staff and someone who is too disabled to climb stairs wouldn't be able to do the job anyway... Political Correctness means we have to apologise to black people because of a practice that ended 200 years ago. That's a bit like the Italians apologizing on behalf of Caligula... I'm all for equality and fairness but how can anyone ever justify a system that places the desires of a minority over the needs of a majority? Your points are superbly taken, Dr. Shoe! Political correctness is a way of standing democracy on its head and allowing the minorities to rule. Yet the very essence of democracy is rule by the majority. So what we have with PC is some kind of political perversion in which we say that we have a democracy, but the minorities will be the first-class citizens. Hogwash! Isn't it past time when we started calling a spade a spade, and letting our yea be yea and our nays mean nay? Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
Guy N. Heels Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 ...I'd rather be protected from the lunatics. But then, I am an utter moral relativist - I do not believe one can "stand up for what's right" because I do not believe it is possible to define absolute notions of right, wrong, good or evil. I rather suspect Guy N. Heels and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here. Now let's see if I understand this business of moral relativism correctly. According to my understanding, all morals are determined by their relavance at the moment. Therefore, under the correct circumstances it may be okay to murder someone who is creating a problem in your life, but if some thug has the barrel of his gun stuck in your ear - then murder is absolutely morally wrong. Or is it morally okay to have an affair with your secretary at work under the correct circumstances, but if your wife decides that she needs a little sexual variety in her life, then adultery is morally absolutely wrong. Is my understanding correct? Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
Guy N. Heels Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 ...Consensus politics, like democracy, is the politics of mediocrity. It's rare to get a decision that seems superb in retrospect, but it's also rare to get one that seems absolutely crazy. Conviction politics, on the other hand, allows the full range from genius to lunacy... Well, to my mind, the entire notion of consensus politics is absolutely crazy! Consensus politics is nothing less that rulership by the man in the street. Not only do you ensure that you will never be led by the best qualified, but in effect, you are saying you want to be ruled by the least qualified. Who, in his right mind, wants that? Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
Dr. Shoe Posted March 31, 2007 Author Posted March 31, 2007 Well, to my mind, the entire notion of consensus politics is absolutely crazy! Consensus politics is nothing less that rulership by the man in the street. Not only do you ensure that you will never be led by the best qualified, but in effect, you are saying you want to be ruled by the least qualified. Who, in his right mind, wants that? I thought that's what the Americans already had! Dr Shoe with a helmet on hiding behind a sofa. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Guy N. Heels Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 I thought that's what the Americans already had! Dr Shoe with a helmet on hiding behind a sofa. I'd laugh if it didn't hurt so bad. Keep on stepping, Guy N. Heels
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