Sir (Honorary) Bob and G8

[Gayle Gold]

What do you people think about the Live 8 concerts that Sir Bob (or King Bob of Africa) has arranged. Are they a good idea? Will they do anything for Africa? Will the G8 nations wriggle a bit? Would another fundraiser be better? Are the artists good? etc. etc. Any thoughts? GGxxx

[Firefox]

Bob self-righteous git Geldorf has made a nice career. A career out of poverty in Africa. Yes we should give aid, but not before the political situations, civil wars, and trade barriers are sorted. Otherwise we are pouring resources into a bottomless pit. Idiot Bob doesn't concentrate too much on the facts. This tedious stuff is not suitable for his self-righteous publicity.

[Waisted_Giraffe]

Reducing debt and poverty across the world is an admirable task, however I don't quite see how these concerts are going to enable the worlds population to force their respective governments to alter the political position on this subject. The British Government had already laid out it's stall on the subject earlier on in the year and Bush made some sort of verbal statement yesterday. The only way I can see changes being forced is by either serious tactical voting in each G8 nation or mass public disobedience, however this is extremely unlikly as the public will recieve no gain themselves (see poll tax riots and fox hunting in the UK) Am I missing something here? Big D

[j-turbo2002]

Well, I am not sure if anyone has noticed but, the entire continent of Africa is corrupt. I am serious, all the nations of Africa are run by nothing more than a bunch of 3rd-world dictators, thugs, and pimps. Those living in Africa today are to blame for the state of crisis that they are currently living in. For they have all brought this situation upon themselves. Trying to wipe out poverty is like asking for world peace - it is not going to happen. It is good that old Bob wants to raise money to help the current situation however, it is not going to solve the problem. We need to get over there and start educating those people properly instead of letting them run around and live like a bunch of damn cavemen/barbarians. I am serious, when you look at some of these African nations you will find out that there is an overwhelming effort to keep the "common" man as dumb as possible. Hence, the reason that Africa is such the shit-pile that it is today.

[Pam]

Good cause...bad management!

[asdf174]

Hearts are in the right place. Its just that most of these people who run and organize these events I get the feeling that they don't really know whats going on in these countries and this is something just to make a bunch of celebs look good. Honestly I don't even like most of the artist on the lineup.

[Firefox]

It's amusing that Bob complains about people selling live 8 tickets on ebay and "profiting from poverty." He was a singer in second rate band. Few people had heard of him. Now he's an international celeb on the back of his self-righteous publicity stunts. Why doesn't he sell his stonking great house and give his millions to Africa if he thinks it's such a good idea. I haven't seen him or any of his cronies give up all their luxury posessions for charity. Practice what you preach, Bob you retard, before you come mouthing off to tell us what we should do.

[Dr. Shoe]

I agree most wholeheartedly, even (and especially) with J-Turbo!!!! Even Africans agree that it is no secret that Africa was far far better off under colonial rule, but the biggest problem is that the African leaders want to be like the white rulers before them but don't have the culture or the will to keep their noses out of the trough of corruption. Many see international aid as a cornucopia of palaces, executive jets and race horses and certainly not to help those people who are slaves to their leaders' indulgence and decadence. Do you notice that many of these countries "debt" is roughly equal to those countries presidents' personal fortunes? Africa is a country rich in culture and natural resources and collectively have everything needed to become a world leader but their petty squabbles and rulers' greed keeps Africa poor and the Industrialised world rich at their expense - let us not forget who it was who first sold black slaves to the Europeans. Bob Geldof. The best that we can say about his efforts is that they have raised awareness of the issues in Africa though Gordon Brown was already negotiating with other G8 leaders to cut the debts and increase aid. So what's the point? Damon Alban criticised Geldof for having an exclusively white line-up in Hyde park and to counter this he said that these were acts that sell records in large quantities! Though he did go on to book Miss Dynamite as the token black performer. Therefore, a raft of African performers are now staging a show at the Eden Project. Is it a coincidence that Sir Bob has a book out in November and he also Promoting his daughter Peaches as the next big thing in Media. He stands to make a lot of money out of this through renewed interest in The Boom Town Rats Greates Hits Cd that will almost certainly be launched on the back of this It will be interesting to see how much of the royalties for the book and record will go to Africa. Firefox is right, if he really cared he'd put his own money into it like he did at the original Live Aid after badgering by certain members of the press. Yes, the African governments are corrupt. Yes, we should be helping the people of Africa get on their feet. But how? There are no simple answers but India is fast becoming an economic powerhouse like China because they are prepared to change from subsistence farming to doing the jobs that would be uneconomical in Europe or US. In India some of the tiny villages have a call center! There are things Africans can do well: Textiles, wood carving, stone masonry- all of which can be applied in a more industrial setting. Moreover, unskilled and semiskilled labour is a vast untapped commodity. "Factory farming" could also be a way forward but for this to succeed there has to be a lifting of subsidies across Europe and US- sure there will be job losses but in general, most workers will be able to turn their talents to other areas.

[Waisted_Giraffe]

Are we all of generally the same mind set? Even though we have the common interest of high heels, I would have thought there would have been a far wider range of socio-political views? No? oh well there you go, do we all fall on the same side of the political scale because of our open mindedness.? Big D

[Dr. Shoe]

I think that (going by what I hear elsewhere) that we are of the same mindset as most of the world's population. Possibly even in Africa.

[Dawn HH]

If we have to have a mindset, then I'm with you guys and most of the population of the world. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[heelsRus]

Bob self-righteous git Geldorf has made a nice career. A career out of poverty in Africa.

Yes we should give aid, but not before the political situations, civil wars, and trade barriers are sorted. Otherwise we are pouring resources into a bottomless pit.

Idiot Bob doesn't concentrate too much on the facts. This tedious stuff is not suitable for his self-righteous publicity.

I tend to agree with FF. If Sir Bob wants poverty gone in Africa (and the rest of the world), then making huge political and cultural changes are required before money.

As an aside, I wonder how much of his personal wealth he's given to Africa and what, if any, conditions were assigned. I may be pleasantly surprised (and I hope I am).

Why should my government forgive the debts of a bunch of corrupt politicians (are there any other kinds?) so they can take out debt again to line their pockets?

And perhaps someone can fill in the details, but I recall hearing that during the dought in Ethiopia (90s) when the world was sending food relief, much of that relief was rotting on the docks and airports because the government and various warlords wouldn't let it though to the people. It doesn't please me to think that money given to relieve famine was totally wasted. I also heard that the government was razing the farms to keep the people concentrating on where they were going to get their next meal - means less rebellion. Don't know if that's true though. Seems awfully cruel if it really happened.

The only thing these Live Aid concerts do is focus media attention on the problem. That's good to a point, but because the media isn't very good and doesn't report on anything other than sensational stories and immediate results, anything that takes longer than a sound bite (like say political reform in third world countries) is passed.

If he wanted to do something like this perhaps a Live 8 concert once a month where he outlines what has happened to bring those countries in line with good governance, human rights, etc.

[heelsRus]

Well, I am not sure if anyone has noticed but, the entire continent of Africa is corrupt. I am serious, all the nations of Africa are run by nothing more than a bunch of 3rd-world dictators, thugs, and pimps.

Those living in Africa today are to blame for the state of crisis that they are currently living in. For they have all brought this situation upon themselves.

Trying to wipe out poverty is like asking for world peace - it is not going to happen. It is good that old Bob wants to raise money to help the current situation however, it is not going to solve the problem.

We need to get over there and start educating those people properly instead of letting them run around and live like a bunch of damn cavemen/barbarians. I am serious, when you look at some of these African nations you will find out that there is an overwhelming effort to keep the "common" man as dumb as possible. Hence, the reason that Africa is such the shit-pile that it is today.

Gee, that's not very politically correct

Certainly better than the drivel coming out of the radio!

[heelsRus]

Yes, the African governments are corrupt. Yes, we should be helping the people of Africa get on their feet. But how? There are no simple answers but India is fast becoming an economic powerhouse like China because they are prepared to change from subsistence farming to doing the jobs that would be uneconomical in Europe or US. In India some of the tiny villages have a call center! There are things Africans can do well: Textiles, wood carving, stone masonry- all of which can be applied in a more industrial setting. Moreover, unskilled and semiskilled labour is a vast untapped commodity. "Factory farming" could also be a way forward but for this to succeed there has to be a lifting of subsidies across Europe and US- sure there will be job losses but in general, most workers will be able to turn their talents to other areas.

You're right Dr. Shoe. One thought though.

Easy answer #1: instead of focusiing on rogue states like Iraq and Iran, send huge numbers of troops to each country in Africa in turn. Make sure you send an army of accountants to figure out where the money went. Freeze all leaders' bank accounts when you take over the first country so they can't hide it. Take over one country at a time and when you start make it known where you'll be going and when. Guaranteed by the third or fourth country it'll be pretty clean (or getting there anyway).

The problem is we, as a world population, don't have the cajones to walk into various "generally accepted to be corrupt" countries and break the leadership to set the country straight. While we believe each state is independent, we'll never get the planet beyond where it's at now.

Look at the rain forests, and if you believe Brazil burning the rain forests is ok because it's an independent state and can do as it pleases, welll, I'm interested in hearing the arguments, but I won't believe 'em. And Libya in charge of the Human Rights commission in the UN? Huh? Can somone explain that one?

We are one planet and one species with different cultures which grew because we didn't know others existed. Now we know but are too stubborn, uneducated or just plain stupid to change, and too arrogant because we think ours is the best culture. When the world goes phoom! because of extremist thoughts and actions, or because we destroy it thought some means, where will we all be? Dead. As a species.

Joyful thoughts, eh? Well, I'm having a very bad day so I don't see any reason why others should have a good time :-) (that's for those that like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy :-) ).

[j-turbo2002]

Yes, the African governments are corrupt. Yes, we should be helping the people of Africa get on their feet. But how?

I already gave you the answer ---- Eduaction!!!!

[Bubba136]

There is really no solution to the problems in Africa no matter how hard you try. Some things are just beyond fixing. And, I'm afraid, Africa is one of them. My solution would be to just leave them alone to sink into oblivion and just perhaps the survivors might be more amenable to outside help. As African American's here in my section of the USA keep responding to poffered solutions to local problems, "It's a black thing. You white guys just don't understand." So, full speed onward towards self-destruction. You can only try so hard before you get the message.

[Dr. Shoe]

To respond to your previous post: Education is NOT the solution (although it is part of it) because there has been education in Africa since the time of the missionaries and many African countries have highly developed public education system with universities and trade colleges which are well established and offer degrees and diplomas recognised the world over. OK, they aren't anywhere near the standard of Yale, Harvard, Princetown, Oxford, Cambridge, The Saubonne, etc. But they do turn out some very well educated people- and not all of them go on to be tyrants.

In most African countries education up to high school level is free and in many admission to university is on merit with a grant system in place for the poorest students.

http://education.pwv.gov.za/

The sytem in Africa is by no means unique in Africa. And I gather that Botswana has one of the highest standards of literacy outside the developed world.

The biggest problem in Africa is conflict and the root of just about every civil war in Africa is greed and tribal division.

[j-turbo2002]

Calm down JT. This is a forum, one where people DO express opinions whether solicited or not. If you don't want people to respond to what you write then it should remain unwritten. I know very well that you will be responding to this and I expect some contradiction but unlike you I don't care if people agree with me or not. I just welcome reasoned debate not petty rowing.

To respond to your previous post: Education is NOT the solution (although it is part of it) because there has been education in Africa since the time of the missionaries and many African countries have highly developed public education system with universities and trade colleges which are well established and offer degrees and diplomas recognised the world over. OK, they aren't anywhere near the standard of Yale, Harvard, Princetown, Oxford, Cambridge, The Saubonne, etc. But they do turn out some very well educated people- and not all of them go on to be tyrants.

In most African countries education up to high school level is free and in many admission to university is on merit with a grant system in place for the poorest students.

http://education.pwv.gov.za/

The sytem in Africa is by no means unique in Africa. And I gather that Botswana has one of the highest standards of literacy outside the developed world.

The biggest problem in Africa is conflict and the root of just about every civil war in Africa is greed and tribal division.

Yes Dr. Shoe, education is everything.

No pun intended but look at yourself.

You are very uneducated. You have no college degree or anything which is the reason that you are not a great person.

Your lack of education is what is going to keep you a truck driver for the rest of your life.

Yes, Africa has an education system but it is very limited in scope - especially to the "common" man. Those who do attend these education systems in Africa are those of the elite majority. It does not match that of the U.S. These people (the "common man") need a lot of eduaction from reading, writing, and arithmatic to family life and values. They also need better education of the AIDs epidemic and how to prevent it. They need better education to the consequences of overpopulation. The list goes on and on. I could go on writing for hours.

However, education does make a difference. I know that you do not understand this because you have never gone the distance to really see what it takes to be succesful in this world now-and-days. You would have to be a complete idiot to think otherwise.

Technology drives the world's economy. For Africa to become like China or India they are going to have to become a technological society and have a large workforce of technology workers. This will not happen overnight.

[Firefox]

For those who wish to continue discussing Bob Geldorf and Live 8 continue below.

For those who wish to argue about if you have a right to reply, message board etiquette or other random off topic stuff go here to the arguments, flaming and off topic thread:

http://www.hhplace.org/hhboard/viewtopic.php?t=4723

(any posts which don't relate to the live 8 /Geldorf theme here will be deleted in the interest of keeping the board readable and at the request of some members)

[Gayle Gold]

Firefox, well done for taking their toys away!

I didn't intend to post this discussion to start another war but I know people will have different opinions. Even a blonde air-head like me has an opinion.

I know that the 'celebrities' are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart (although I don't want to do anybody a disservice if they are - i.e Sting appears genuine). For whatever reason people are doing the Live 8 thingy or anything else for that matter - does not matter as long as it gets results.

'Africa' as a subject is, I am sure, not straight forward but the facts

are that millions are dying. Yes, there are reasons for it and one of the main ones are tinpot dictators causing havoc. Did the world accept Hitler - no, they did not.

The cowboy and the glove puppet were quick enough to act with Saddam - with the excose of WMD when not even a pistol was found. It seems that the famous dictators in Africa have their own WMD (they are causing mass destruction and mass murder). The world needs to act as one to quickly bring the dark continent (that is what it used to be called) into the 20th century , then the 21st century.

Didn't the world do well in the Tsunami appeal? Couldn't they do even better in Africa? I say that, yes, Bob, or at least his cronies, may have an ulterior motive but so do politicians (usually to feather their own nest first). We have to think of the people in Africa who just want food water shelter and safety. How many cars do we NEED, how much food do we NEED, how many clothes do we NEED (High Heels excepted, of course) etc. etc.

As for the concert, thought it was good, not as good as Live Aid - but then I don't like many modern groups (there are some great ones like REM, Dido etc.) For me, London was fortunate in their line-up with the likes of The Who and Pink Floyd - and any excuse to see these are great.

That's my little brain cells burst now.

GGxxx

[j-turbo2002]

Well, I have some more FACTS:

The world at one time DID accept Hitler. The British (Chamberlin, to be more specific) accepted him for a while. The French accepted him. The Belgians accepted him. The Polish accepted him. I mean, for a while there everyone in Europe accepted Hitler. They thought that if they left him alone he would just go away. They were afraid of provoking Hitler and making him mad. If my memory is correct, I think that Finland was the only country to fight back while Hitler and Germany were coming to power. The U.S. was in the midst of a depression and we wanted to stay out of it. The U.S. soon looked the writing on the wall when they noticed that no one in Europe was standing up to Hitler. I thank God that the British got smart and made Churchill Prime Minister. And Russia? Well that is another story.............

Ironically, history almost repeated itself with the war on terrorism. For a while there, everyone in the world was accepting terrorism. Again, like the past with Hitler, they thought that if we just ignored terrorism, it would go away. For Heaven forbid we provoke those poor terrorists again. Thank God for the great leadership of George W. Bush and Tony Blair! For they are making the world a much safer place for the future generations to live. I really admire men like the both of them (and Winston Churchill!). For they are men who make the right judgements when everyone else is against them. Saddam, like Hitler in Europe, was a threat to the Middle East and the rest of the world. His day was numbered, the U.N. past Resolution 1441 which said that if he did not come clean about his WMD program there would be consequences. Thank God that we have men like George W. Bush and Tony Blair who hold up and maintain the rule of UN Law. These men do not let rouge dictators give the UN and the rest of the world the "middle finger".

AFRICA

Africa is in the situation that it is today because the African people have put themselves in this situation. They are responsible for the state of current affairs.

The combination of lack of a proper education and failure to stand up and take action has led them to this point.

The dictators in these countries are a threat only to the states and people who reside in them in Africa. They are not (or so I have read) a threat to the rest of the world. Even hunger and poverty are not threats to the rest of the world. Hence, this is the reason why you do not see the rest of the world getting involved.

The only people who can save Africa are the Africans themselves. They need to stand up and take some responsibility for their actions and quit being a bunch of beggars.

[Firefox]

It was interesting to see Sir Bob ranting over sale of live 8 tickets on ebay on the grounds of profiteering from poverty. He doesn't seem to take the same line over his rock star chums who have benefited massively from the publicity and album sales following the "charity" concerts of both live aid and live 8.

[Gayle Gold]

Some people's views are frightening - just as well these are not everybodys. Maybe we need Firefox to sort out the dictators and politicians and throw their toys away too! Anyway, in response to FF - yes, some would have benefited which, I am sure, is why a number of them did it. Heard today that Gilmour of Floyd will give all proceeds to any extra revenue - to charity. Hopefully, others will follow suit. GGxxx

[Bubba136]

A couple of more things for you to think about. 1) I've read newspaper reports that the organizers of this effort have had to offer all kinds of "perk" packages to the big named stars to get them to participate. Everything from free transport to the event by private jet to guaranteed cash payments. It sounds to me like it was by no means an event that entertainers willingly took part in. 2) The second point is that although "most" entertainers are quick to respond to events like this, mainly for the free publicity it gets them, they often forget about the cause and never follow through to make sure the proceeds they raise actually make it into the coffers of the charity before huge sums are skimmed off to cover logistical and administrative expenses. As a result, I usually don't pay any attention to this kind of thing. It doesn't matter what the cause, or what the entertainers think, it's all a gigantic scam to line someone's pockets.

[Dr. Shoe]

Well, I have some more FACTS:

The world at one time DID accept Hitler. The British (Chamberlin, to be more specific) accepted him for a while. The French accepted him. The Belgians accepted him. The Polish accepted him. I mean, for a while there everyone in Europe accepted Hitler. They thought that if they left him alone he would just go away. They were afraid of provoking Hitler and making him mad. If my memory is correct, I think that Finland was the only country to fight back while Hitler and Germany were coming to power. The U.S. was in the midst of a depression and we wanted to stay out of it. The U.S. soon looked the writing on the wall when they noticed that no one in Europe was standing up to Hitler. I thank God that the British got smart and made Churchill Prime Minister. And Russia? Well that is another story.............

Ironically, history almost repeated itself with the war on terrorism. For a while there, everyone in the world was accepting terrorism. Again, like the past with Hitler, they thought that if we just ignored terrorism, it would go away. For Heaven forbid we provoke those poor terrorists again. Thank God for the great leadership of George W. Bush and Tony Blair! For they are making the world a much safer place for the future generations to live. I really admire men like the both of them (and Winston Churchill!). For they are men who make the right judgements when everyone else is against them. Saddam, like Hitler in Europe, was a threat to the Middle East and the rest of the world. His day was numbered, the U.N. past Resolution 1441 which said that if he did not come clean about his WMD program there would be consequences. Thank God that we have men like George W. Bush and Tony Blair who hold up and maintain the rule of UN Law. These men do not let rouge dictators give the UN and the rest of the world the "middle finger".

AFRICA

Africa is in the situation that it is today because the African people have put themselves in this situation. They are responsible for the state of current affairs.

The combination of lack of a proper education and failure to stand up and take action has led them to this point.

The dictators in these countries are a threat only to the states and people who reside in them in Africa. They are not (or so I have read) a threat to the rest of the world. Even hunger and poverty are not threats to the rest of the world. Hence, this is the reason why you do not see the rest of the world getting involved.

The only people who can save Africa are the Africans themselves. They need to stand up and take some responsibility for their actions and quit being a bunch of beggars.

What a shame they don't have any oil....

(This is the last I'm going to say in this thread so you won't have to suffer my opinion any more!)

[Firefox]

Some people's views are frightening - just as well these are not everybodys. Maybe we need Firefox to sort out the dictators and politicians and throw their toys away too!

I'm sure that the hearts of most of the people involved are in the right place, and I support the west getting involved to help Africa as much as possible provided the development is sustainable.

However, Bob is being inconsistent in his viewpoints. If he's going to put himself forward as a mouthpiece then he has to be credible in order to be effective. He needs to learn the skills of leadership as well as his musicians skills of "yeah baby I lurve you", the three chord trick, and hyping crap albums on the basis of one half decent single.

[j-turbo2002]

You know, now that I think about it, the continent of Africa is mostly socialist. Hence, it is no wonder that you have mass poverty and hunger. I am serious, if you want to create mass poverty and hunger, just export the concept of socialism. What Africa really needs is FREEDOM and CAPITALISM along with EDUCATION. They need PERSONAL INCOME and the only way to achieve this is with jobs, imports, exports, trade, etc. I am a person who is into results. I read an AP story on Yahoo today that stated the fact that since 1963, the U.S. gave the continent of Africa alone over 600 billion dollars in aid. This accounted to about 13.5 billion a year. And yet still, there is poverty and hunger in Africa. This just goes to show you that throwing money (foreign aid) at a problem does not solve it. It just creates more problems. Don't get me wrong but I am tired of seeing people die over there from poverty and hunger. I really am. I am also tired of debt relief for this continent of socialist dictators, thugs, and pimps so we can keep throwing money at it. I am not sure if anyone has noticed but this continent is beyond debt relief. What really pisses me off is to see idot bonehead rockstars (Bob and Co.) with good intentions (nothing wrong with good intentions) getting all of the credit for failing so miserably. These Live Aid concerts have done squat to solve the problem in Africa. I am serious, how many of these Live Aid concerts have there been? And yet we still hear the same old people with good intentions bitching about the same situation in Africa and how money is going to solve the problem. I am really tired of the same old crap.

[Dr. Shoe]

Hooray! I actually agree with JT!!!! Proper sustainable income streams are exactly what they need. Up until the Europeans colonised in the 19th century, starvation, warfare and inter-tribal brutality were rife. The Europeans formed colonies and "europeanised" the indiginous people teaching them the concepts of money and wealth and giving them prosperity. Soon these colonies became nations and economic powerhouses like South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, Nigeria, etc. With Whitey in charge there was never famine or civil war (rebellions and uprisings yes, but no civil war). Now that we have "handed-Africa-back-to-the-Natives" they cannot cope. Even South Africa is on the slide leaving only countries like Botswana, Kenya and Zambia to prosper because the governments of those countries value the white farmers and asian industrialists that help keep these nations afloat. The lessons in Uganda are clear: Get rid of the tyrant, restore democracy and your country will flourish.

[j-turbo2002]

Just do not forget to add FREEDOM, CAPITALISM, and EDUCATION. If you do not have any of the above there is no personal income.

[j-turbo2002]

Now this article is really disturbing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050706/en_afp/g8summitnobelgeldof_050706185350

It just goes to show you that people with good intentions, who have failed so miserably, get put on a pedistal for some reason. Why are we never allowed to question the results of people with good intentions? These Live Aid concerts have done squat to solve the problem in Africa and yet Bob gets nominated for a peace prize. They have had a lot of these concerts and they have raised a lot of money and yet, the crisis in Africa is no better than it was 20 something years ago. 20 years later Bob is still out complaining about how something needs to be done about the crisis in Africa. It is almost sickening to read articles like this.