CAUGHT - but I think my folks are ok with it, wh

[exitman1]

Hi everyone... im looking for some good responses to this as I need a bit of help and opinions. Ok. My folks found a pair of my shoes, a pair of 2 1/2 inch ankle books and my mum quizzed me tonight. I denied it saying someone had put them into my bag at uni as a joke. But I think they knew i was lying. So she said that they are ok and there is nothing wrong with them and that my Dad always wore and still likes to wear shoes with heels - but he cant find any shoes with good high type heels on them in mens. Now at this point I wanted to say.... so do you think I could wear this type of shoe etc. But I said nothing. Eventually it fizzelled out and it was left at its no problem. So what do you think. I was going to wait until my mum was on her own again and say that they arent mine (as I didnt buy them - keeping to my original story) but do you think that just like Dad I could wear this shoe (and others like it with heels). The shoes in question dont really fit so this fits my story and I could say that i'll go and buy some of my own. I really think this could work out well and I could start wearing heels with my parents knowedge and support... so I dont want to let it slip away. so what do you think let it go (as in they were just testing me being supportive- and they will roll out the councilers) or admit and ask to be able to wear heels..... PLEASE HELP.

[hoverfly]

Ahhhhhhhhh, well lets put it this way, YOU BLEW IT !!!! you had a perfect opportunity when you had a perfect response "Now at this point I wanted to say.... so do you think I could wear this type of shoe etc." :sleeping: On a more serious note, just tell them. What a novel concept eh? Start with your mother, she sounds open minded and she opened up the line of communications first.

[Nicole]

Ahhhhhhhhh, well lets put it this way, YOU BLEW IT !!!! you had a perfect opportunity when you had a perfect response "Now at this point I wanted to say.... so do you think I could wear this type of shoe etc." :sleeping:

On a more serious note, just tell them. What a novel concept eh? Start with your mother, she sounds open minded and she opened up the line of communications first.

Absolutely. There's no point in lying about it.

[Dawn HH]

Exitman1:-) It sounds like your Mom is open-minded on you wearing heels so I would, (if you can), re-open the conversation with her and come clean with her, especially since your Dad used to wear heels himself. Who knows---maybe Dad will eventually get in on the action and that would be good. And then wear them every day starting with a 2" or 2½" heel. You can always increase the heel size later gradually until you hit a heel height that is comfortable for you to wear daily. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[new_look]

i wish i got that response from my mum. any mention of heels associated with men and all i get is yod look like a puff or something similar, which as you can imagine hurts. Hoverfly is right. you should take advantage of the fact that by you parents accepting it, you have got extra support, and no longer ned to hide them. im waiting for the day my dad happens to open my bed drawer and find about err. 9 pairs of womens shoes. lol daz

[Dawn HH]

Daz:-) After the blue smoke clears from your Dad finding your heels, please be sure to let us all know what happened and how things went for you, and what everyones position would be at the time of the incident. (If and when it ever happens). Cheers--- Dawn HH

[mk4625]

I think my mom found my boots, stiletto-heeled mules with 1/2 inch platforms, and pink leather bedroom slippers when she cleaned my room. She couldn't possibly have missed them. She probably also found my scrapbook of pictures of women wearing boots and high heels. That would have explained the missing pages in the Sears catalogs and her women's magazines. But she never mentioned any of this nor seemed particularly distressed.

[dressboots]

Sounds like your parents are wise. What better way to drive a wedge into lines of open communication with one's offspring than to jump all over them about something as harmless as this. I think we are programmed to expect the worst due to some parental flipping out stories we hear. My parents never treated it as weird/bizarre. They just cautioned me about the social risks of wearing such publicly which many of the forums here address. Keep the line of communication open with your parents.

[asdf174]

I would be open with them. Its the only way for them to begin to accept it. I was open with my fateher and turns out he was ok with it.

[docs41]

Since the ice has been broken, well sort of, I think it would be a good time to keep the topic open. Try your mom first. I think she might be your best bet. Good luck..........

[Spawn]

Hi all. I've got a broblem becouse my parents caught me wearing high heeld shoes and they say I'm sick :x They say I have to go to a psychiatrist I don't know what to do help plz. I don't want to go outside in heels just wear them indoors.

[Nicole]

Hi all.

I've got a broblem becouse my parents caught me wearing high heeld shoes and they say I'm sick :x They say I have to go to a psychiatrist I don't know what to do help plz. I don't want to go outside in heels just wear them indoors.

That last may well change. Initially, I only wanted to wear them indoors myself.

As for your parents- very sorry to hear about that. The good news is that even if you go to a psychiatrist, he or she is unlikely to cure you of your 'sickness'; or even attempt to. You may want to point out to your parents that wearing clothes associated of the opposite gender is not considered a disease by medical professionals, and even if it was, a cure is neither likely nor desirable.

Good luck.

[genebujold]

Hi all.

I've got a broblem becouse my parents caught me wearing high heeld shoes and they say I'm sick :x They say I have to go to a psychiatrist I don't know what to do help plz. I don't want to go outside in heels just wear them indoors.

The best thing you can do with them is share with them the opinion of a group of qualified psychiatrists in charge of granting security clearances to US Government personnel. I'll spare the non-CD stuff here, but if you want the whole enchilada, PM me and I'll PM the article back to you. In the meantime, here's the nitty gritty so far as what the shrinks can figure out.

As you may have guessed from the posts on this board, there are at least five or six former members of the military, retired school teachers, lay counselors, business owners, etc.

We're normal in pretty much all respects, other than the fact we're guys and we choose to wear heels, and some of us non-birfucated garments.

If this fails to calm them down, and they're religious, drop me a PM and I'll send you a "crossdressing and christianity" paper I wrote a while back.

- Gene'

Analysis Division - Office of Security

***

Central Intelligence Agency - AD-663 - October 1993

***

Sexual Behaviour and Security Risk: Background Information for Security Personnel

***

By Richards J. Heuer, Jr.

***

Executive Summary

***

There is today no community consensus on value judgments regarding Sexual practices or how these practices should be evaluated in a national security context. Conflicting interpretations of sexual behavior that were widely accepted during earlier time periods continue to influence the public psyche, the legal code, and organizational practices.

***

The record of past espionage cases and the bulk of scientific research suggest that the connection between sexual behavior and personnel security is more complex than a simple notion that "normal" sex is acceptable but "nonconforming" sexual practices are a security risk. Self-control, social maturity, strength of character, and overall psychological adjustment are more important security indicators than the specific sexual practices in which people engage.

***

Transvestism

***

Transvestism is cross-dressing. The transvestite is almost always a male, and usually a heterosexual male, who has an obsession for wearing women's clothes, usually as a means of reducing psychic stress or tension. To the extent that sexual arousal is a principal motive for wearing female garments, this is a type of fetish and is mentioned in the next section under fetishism; it is sometimes called transvestic fetishism. Crossdressing by homosexuals is the exception rather than the rule. Transvestism takes a number of forms. It may involve occasional cross-dressing while alone in private, usually accompanied by masturbation; relaxing in women's attire while at home in-the evening with a spouse; crossdressing as an erotic turn-on during intercourse with a partner; wearing on a daily basis a single item of women's attire such as underwear or stockings under one's masculine clothes; dressing up in full women's regalia with wig and makeup for the excitement of venturing out in public alone as a woman; or participating in the subculture of transvestite support groups or transvestite bars.

***

The transvestite should be distinguished from the drag queen and the female impersonator. A drag queen is a male homosexual who dresses as a woman, often for the purpose of sexually stimulating other males. Although he may be a transvestite, in many cases he is not. The female impersonator is an entertainer. He, too, may also be a transvestite, although in many cases he is not. The drag queen and female impersonator may have no psychological dependence on wearing feminine clothing as a form of tension release, nor do they necessarily gain sexual stimulation from the clothing.

***

The transvestite should also he differentiated from the male transsexual who seeks to change his gender identity. As discussed above, the transsexual male feels like a woman trapped in a man's body, wishes to live as a woman, and experiences an insistent urge to change his anatomical sex. Although some cross-dressers evolve into transsexuals as young adults or in early middle age, most are quite happy with their gender and feel no urge to change it.

***

Many transvestites are married and masculine in appearance. Most assume a female name and personality while they are cross-dressed. Crossdressing often starts in childhood or early adolescence. The causes are not known, but some prenatal biological influence may be involved as well as later experiences during early childhood.

***

No valid statistics are available on the prevalence of transvestism. The Society for the Second Self is a support and social organization for heterosexual cross-dressers. The group reports about 1,100 members organized into 27 chapters nationwide, with another 23 chapters in the process of formation. Other similar organizations also exist The "second self' is the woman that the society believes "is buried within every man." The group's purpose is to create a safe environment for the heterosexual male membership "to express without fear, to speak without shame, and to act out without guilt the femininity that is within them." Members generally limit their cross-dressing to the privacy of their homes or cover of night and socialize en femme only at chapter meetings with their close confidants.

***

The largest survey of transvestites was conducted in the late 1960s by V. Prince and P.M. Bentler. They received survey responses from 504 subscribers to a magazine for heterosexual cross-dressers. Prince, who was one of the founders of the Society for the Second Self has almost 1,200 more responses from recirculating the same survey questionnaire during the past 3 or 4 years. Prince reports that the responses "come out pretty much the same as the original survey, which indicates that the phenomenon is pretty much the same over a 25-year period.'

***

The findings reported here are from the original Prince and Bentler survey. In response to a question about how they see themselves, 12% said they felt like a woman trapped in a male body; in other words, they may be transsexuals rather than transvestites. Another 12% reported they were a man with just a sexual fetish for feminine attire, which suggests they should be classified as transvestic fetishists. The classical transvestite response, that they feel themselves to he a man who has a feminine side seeking expression, was given by 69%. Only 28% reported ever having any homosexual experience, which is less than the 37% reported by Kinsey for the male population as a whole.

***

Most (64%) respondents were currently married, with another 14% either separated, divorced, or widowed. About one third of the married members described their wives as either cooperative or understanding, while 20% of the wives were completely unaware of their husbands' interests.

***

About one quarter had a college degree, while another 13% had earned an advanced degree. A remarkable 17% were either presidents or owners of a company or business, while 19% had played football in high school or college.

***

To some extent, these figures reflect the fact that people who join any type of support group tend to be well educated. The figures may also say something about transvestites, however. A separate study of 51 members of the Society for the Second Self found that many were high achievers, driven to seek personal success in order to gain a sense of self-worth and positive recognition. Many sought out particularly masculine occupations as a means of compensation, that is, to prove their masculinity both to themselves and to others despite their enjoyment of feminine things.

***

Cross-dressers are not dangerous. That is, they generally are not child molesters, voyeurs, exhibitionists or rapists. The practice does not generally interfere with work performance. If cross-dressers have difficulties with the law, it is generally because of society's inability to accept persons who do not behave in the "normal" way. A book to be published later this year by one of the principal scholars in this field will argue that gender impersonation (including cross-dressing) should not be classified as a mental illness or a pathology unless it becomes a compulsive behavior. Under those circumstances, it should be considered the same as any other compulsive behavior.

***

Prince and Bentler report that 76% of their respondents had never had a psychiatric consultation for any reason. This is significant, as it indicates that many transvestites do not experience other emotional problems of sufficient gravity to require treatment. Some scientific literature on transvestism is written by psychiatrists based on their clinical experience, and they tend to see cross-dressing as the tip of the iceberg of other emotional problems. If the psychiatrists see only those transvestites who are seriously disturbed by their problems, their impression of the phenomenon as a whole may be less accurate than the broad survey research.

***

Because of lack of public acceptance, crossdressers normally conceal their feelings and their secret life, and this creates a potential for extortion in exchange for keeping their secret. On the other hand, secret cross-dressing tends to be a solitary activity. Unlike homosexuality or adultery, it does not require a partner, so the risk of discovery and blackmail may be considerably less. According to the Prince and Bentler study, almost 50% of transvestites had told either no one or only one other person (often the wife). Most others were very limited in their disclosure; only 9% had told anyone who was "antagonistic," showing that transvestites "were quite adept in selecting individuals to talk with who would not respond negatively to the information."

***

Transvestism is similar to homosexuality in that it is not illegal, and there is no empirical evidence that transvestites are, by nature, less trustworthy or loyal than other persons. Cross-dressing, by itself and in all circumstances, does not necessarily indicate poor judgment, unreliability, irresponsibility or emotional instability, although these disqualifying characteristics will he present in some cases. There is strong evidence that many cross-dressers lead successful lives with a high degree of personal and professional achievement. Each individual should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Appropriate medical authorities should determine whether there are other associated emotional problems or evidence of a progression toward other sexual disorders such as fetishism or transsexualism.

***

The DCID 1/14 criteria that may apply to some cases of transvestism are the public nature of the behavior and susceptibility to blackmail or coercion. Going out in public dressed as a woman may indicate lack of discretion and would be an aggravating circumstance that may justify disqualification. Concealment of current cross-dressing behavior may indicate susceptibility to pressure. Admission of cross-dressing during a security interview may eliminate some of this susceptibility but is discouraged by the sanctions associated with current personnel security policies.

[genebujold]

Here's the link to the full text:

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/9312/cia.htm

[Rockpup]

Spawn: I feel for you.. I was sent to 4 diferent 'profesionals' due to my interests, and other things.. Basically.. it's their problem, not yours... if they insist on you going to someone, then go. but talk about the fact that you do not have a 'problem' and do not need to be fixed. Instead you would like to know how to convince your 'rents to know you are ok Btw.. at one point I was put on medication.. turns out it was the same shit they put rapists on.. Yes.. I am bitter. Jim

[Dawn HH]

JimC:-) Don't be bitter. "They know not what they do". That's all in the past, so put it aside and move on with your life. Make the best of what you have left. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[genebujold]

In summary - you're not "weird." It's just that they don't understand, and will go through all kinds of "professionally informed" gyrations, half of which have little or nothing to do with reality, to justify their differentialization idealizations (reasons why they're different than you). Who cares? I don't, and neither do the vast majority of people, men and women alike, on this many, many of whom have held or hold higher levels of security clearances. I remember my last security interview (IV=interviewer; GB=me) IV: Do you partake in any abberrant behaviors? GB: You mean like cross-dressing? IV: Well, that would certainly be one, yes. GB: Not according to the CIA's 1993 report with respect to DCID 1/14 criteria. IV: Huh? GB: You're not familiar with it? IV: No. Should I be? GB: As an interviewer who needs to properly assess personnel with respect to today's "aberrant" society? Of course you should be familiar with it. IV: What are you talking about? GB: I'm talking about the CIA's 1993 report that corroborated sexual deviation with respect to DCID 1/14 certification criteria and approximately 40 years of historial data. IV: Really? I find this quite interesting. GB: You should - it's right out of your job description. IV: How so? GB: Would you like me to provide you with a copy of the report? IV: That would be most helpful. Two weeks later. IV: Am I to understand that you engage in some cross-dressing behaviors? GB: Only with respect to the wearing of elevated heels and kilts. IV: Kilts? GB: Non-birfurcated garments. IV: What does that mean? GB: It means garments that have one hole at the top, and one hole at the bottom. IV: Are you referring to a dress? GB: No, a dress has three holes at the top and one at the bottom, and is worn around the shoulders. I'm referring to kilts. IV: You mean skirts? GB: No, I mean kilts. IV: I don't understand (typical ploy to get the interviewee to incriminate himself) GB: Have you seen the movie Bravehearts? IV: Yes. GB: Have you seen the movie Rob Roy? IV: Yes. GB: Are you aware of the term, "Parading of the beef?" IV: Yes. GB: When did you last encounter it? IV: During the last dining in. GB: What did the musicians play? IV: Bagpipes. GB: And drums? IV: Yes... GB: And what did the musicians wear? IV: I'm sorry? GB: What did they wear girded about their loins? IV: Their loins? GB: What did they wear from the waist down? IV: It was a kilt, I believe. GB: During an official U.S. military function, men were allowed to wear kilts? IV: Why, I believe so. GB: Ok. What other questions, besides kilts and their varients might you have for me? IV: Umm, none, really. But could you tell me more about your kilts? GB: About my kilts? What would you like to know - which manufacturer in Glasgow I purchased them from, or whether I wear underwear beneath them or not? IV: I suppose the manufacturer would be fine. GB: Ok, it's.... IV: Is that all? GB: Is there more? IV: More of what? GB: I dunno - you asked me. IV: Well, yes, now that you mention it... Is there anything else you care to add about your wearing kilts? GB: Actually, there is. IV: Yes? GB: I wear heels, too. IV: Heels? GB: Yes, as in high heels. At this point I whipped out my plates of 1600-1800s fashion, and showed him a few) GB: This is from the annuls of history, but I don't expect you to take any stock in that.... IV: Um, no... GB: Here's my doctor's report from 1996, along with a follow-up report in 1998, and a recommendation in 2000 that I wear an "elevated heel." IV: Uh-huh... GB: Well, given the fact that men wore dresses and skirts for several thousand years before modern fashion said "um, no" and that they wore heels for three hundred years between the 1500's and 1800's, I began to wonder... IV: Wonder about what? GB: I began to wonder just how in tune today's fashion "norms" are in tune with mankind throughout history. IV: Really... GB: Are you familiar with men's fashion history? IV: Not exactly... GB: Tell you what. Here are some link where you can look up ancient, historical and current fashion histories throughout the world. If you find I've violated any one of them, then by all means deny my security clearance. IV: Oh, I don't think I'd go that far... GB: You wouldn't? IV: We base our criteria on the potential for extortion and compromise, as well as overall soundness of mind. But you've been very forthcoming, so... GB: Why thank you. Anything else? IV: Not at this time, no. PS: They're not allowed to finish their thoughts/conclusions, but my continuance clearance was granted without a problem. Bottom line: There are categories in the DSM which apply to some of us, but not others, and I seriously doubt whether the shrinks have anywhere near a full set of data on which to base their conclusions, primarily because the vast majority of their clientelle have other problems which first, bring them in the path of the shrink, and second, significantly color their stories. I believe the earlier studies in the CIA reference document do a far better job of outlining the issues than subsequent DSM publications, especially given the fact that the vast majority of their population is based on referred (from the criminal courts) sexual pervertors.

[Bubba136]

GB, recounting your interview is absolutely hilarious. While no longer having to undergo these semiannual anal examinations myself, I know exactly how they take place. And, interviewers do become disoriented whenever the interview departs from the well rehersed script.

[Spawn]

Thank you all for your help, I'll try to talk to them... :argue: