Puffer

'Mary spent more than an hour with her make-up before going out on her special date.   She killed the look with extra blue eyeshadow.'

So, did she improve her appearance or ruin it?   (No peeping allowed.)

I am not immune to the use of slang or idiom - in its place.   But I have learned to avoid it in both personal or professional communication in contexts where it might be misunderstood or inappropriate

I think we have both lost sight of the point here.   It was not so much the secondary meaning of 'slay' (with which I am slightly acquainted) but that of 'kill' in the apparent sense quoted by Cali as in 'you killed the look'.   What I cannot understand is that usage in the implied sense of met or fulfilled; it seems to me that anything 'killed' has been, at best, spoiled or stopped and at worst totally destroyed.   That point was not answered.

It may be commonplace for words or phrases to take on what are effectively opposite meanings in street parlance (e.g. wicked = good) but that is not to say that they should be universally adopted, especially when accuracy is required.   I can think of many historic examples where imprecise or inverted language has caused real confusion, sometimes dangerously.

9 hours ago, Shyheels said:

You seem to forget I live in the UK. And writing and communication is my business. I do it effectively and have won awards for it, both in the UK and abroad.

I might add that the Cambridge Dictionary includes “to impress” as a secondary definition of slay. I haven’t consulted the Oxford but I expect they’ll have the same.

 

I am well aware of your residence and occupation - and that you grew up overseas.   Communication was a large part of my career too but has not embraced slang or idiomatic expressions in great depth, I am pleased to say.   The dictionary may well include the secondary definitions you mention but that is not to say that they will be used and understood as universally as you suggest.   I accept that the meanings exist, but not their appeal.

17 hours ago, Shyheels said:

It is! Travel is the same way. Retirees have all the time in the world to travel but usually lack the money!

... or the fitness/energy and affordable insurance!

21 hours ago, Shyheels said:

You succeeded. The overwhelming percentage of people would have taken that lines in exactly the way you meant it. It is a very common idiomatic use and meaning of the verb “to slay”

Not in the UK, at least with people who endeavour to communicate effectively.

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

I think oldies in our society are considered too irrelevant ever to be in anyone’s face. We are the least interesting, least valuable demographic. We pose neither a challenge nor a threat

Sad, but true!   I agree that inhibitions diminish with age, if only because (especially after retirement) we are no longer obliged to conform and obey or impress to the same extent.   When I first wore cuban heels outside, some 15 years ago, I thought that the sky would fall on me.   Now, I know it is simply a question of whether a visible 4" heel is too much.

Surely today's women in general do indeed display confidence whenever they go out, after dressing and putting on make-up etc as the mood takes them?   The confidence that they have chosen a look that, almost regardless of how offbeat or flamboyant (or otherwise) it might be, will be acceptable to the world at large and not give rise to any significant adverse comment, let alone ridicule or persecution.   The same certainly cannot be said to be true for a man who, if he strays outside a pretty narrow avenue of convention in his appearance, will excite questioning and probably negative reaction from most people who see him.   We expect women to have a free hand and to show off - we do not expect men to do so.   

If you say so, but I cannot infer anything other than negative connotations in the concept of 'killing' anything (or anyone).   After all, if there is a discussion going on and someone or something interrupts it, that event may be said to 'kill the conversation', i.e. bring it to an abrupt end.

7 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I’ve tried several times to post and revive but it just seemed so fruitless

Likewise!

5 hours ago, Cali said:

Here the slang "slay" means kill, as in "you kill that look". But I also slayed a gopher yesterday too. However, I like to say I helped the gopher transtion to the after life.

So, are you saying that the comment 'You always slay with your heels' meant that you were considered to have killed (i.e. spoiled/ruined) your appearance by wearing heels?   That is not what I inferred from your original post but can't see any other interpretation of 'kill that look'.

I recall, some years ago, drafting a complex commercial agreement for a colleague to present to a potential customer.   Afterwards, I asked her how the presentation had gone and was told 'They were cool with it'.   I assumed that this meant lukewarm or indifferent, at best, although she actually meant that they were content.   Two parties divided by a common language!

An interesting read, with some thoughtful comments.   But I wish he had said what he means by 'US size 13' - men's or women's?   It is not that difficult to find women's styles of footwear in size USW13, but not at all easy in USM13 (= USW15).  

6 hours ago, at9 said:

Don't know about the USA, but in the UK ASOS offer free post and returns so there's no risk in ordering a few to try.

True enough, although there are often comments about incorrect sizes (or even mismatched pairs) being sent out.   And that seems to be even more prevalent with US and other overseas customers, perhaps because of poor conversion (by either party) of ASOS's somewhat inconsistent sizes.   It helps to read the reviews before ordering a particular item although (strangely) there are very few apparent for 'men's' footwear, at least on the UK website.

15 minutes ago, mlroseplant said:

I hope that is not actually true, because if it is, I probably need to report you to the authorities. I do find it interesting that we never use that word in that past tense, either. And if we did, I'm sure the grammar would be wrong.

That is an interesting thought.   In the UK, one might sometimes hear 'you slay me', or similar.  (An informal use; not one in my lexicon.)   The accepted meaning of 'slay' in this context appears to be 'to greatly impress or amuse (someone)' and I assume that this is what was intended in Cali's encounter.   However, the past tense ('slew') takes on a very different meaning in UK slang, where it apparently means 'to make a public mockery of someone through insult or wit'.

I can see therefore the impossibility of proper comprehension if Cali's commentator had said: 'You always slay with your heels' (= 'I'm impressed') and he had then told us: 'The woman said that I slew her because of my heel wearing' (= Cali had allegedly made a mockery of her).   Two very different messages.

It would be sensible to refrain from vague slang in such circumstances, quite aside from any possible differences between US and UK usage.  Let 'slay' (in all tenses) mean just 'kill with violence'.

1 hour ago, hoverfly said:

A few months ago I actually bought hh boots from Asos in the men’s section.  Until now I did not think of mentioning it here.

Which style/size, please?   And how do you find them?

4 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

Yes, this modrun super-square toe is just.  .  . ugly. Maybe that's the point, I don't know. Perhaps the reason why it's less objectionable on a sandal is because sandals are only two dimensionally square, whereas shoes add the third dimension of square. One might even call it cubism.

I agree, and in a way square-toed sandals are worse imho.   As the toes are exposed, fully or nearly so, the failure of the insole to follow their outline fairly closely looks both ugly and absurd to my eyes.   (In the other direction, sandals with a sharply pointed (usually extended) toe can look equally absurd, for much the same reason.

The 'duck-bill' toe shape spoils these otherwise elegant sandals, as does the 'roach-killer' shape of the second pair:

At least with closed-toe footwear, one cannot be sure what lies within, and even a square(ish) toe can pass muster!   But I agree with those who consider an almond toe to be the most natural and flattering - it follows the foot outline fairly closely - but a pointed toe can look very elegant if not too exaggerated and unwieldy in overall length.

On 5/9/2023 at 10:57 AM, mlroseplant said:

I suppose there are two forks to this river: 1) Chinese made products are thought of in general as being poor quality. This is often true, but not universally true. I wonder if it will always be true. "Made in Taiwan" doesn't mean what it used to, and "Made in Japan" certainly doesn't mean what it used to, as far as poor quality goes. Conversely, "Made in USA" doesn't necessarily mean a product will be great. I don't know that it ever meant that, but it can be pretty dodgy these days.

2) China as a governmental/industrial entity bothers us for any number of philosophical or moral reasons, and we would they would cease to be a relevant player. The question then becomes, does avoiding Chinese products at a consumer level make any difference whatsoever, and furthermore, does it make the difference we want it to make? And then what sort of difference would that be, if we could do the choosing?

Although there are obviously some standards and specifications that relate to quality, depending upon the product, your comments are essentially subjective and may not be shared by all, according to country and time.   

I am old enough to remember when many products sold in the UK (mid 50s-late 60s)were marked 'Empire Made' and often came from Hong Kong, then of course within our Empire.   The quality was usually doubtful, in some cases dreadful.   Much the same applied to anything from Japan, and likely Formosa/Taiwan too.   Alas, an item that is genuinely 'British Made' (or 'US Made') is no longer wholly reliable; just look at the (few) hand tools that are home-produced and compare them with what was made in the UK or US during WW2 and could be bought afterwards on the surplus market.

Are you saying that this was your historic experience too, but quality has since changed for the better?   I would certainly consider most recent/current Japanese imports to be of adequate or better quality, and much the same can be said of Korea.   It is China and India that show 'inconsistency' in quality, although for the price paid their items are usually good value.   The superficial appearance of much from India is pretty dire, regardless of performance.   Frankly, I doubt that many could afford (or be willing to pay) for the quality that we really need if an item is to have reasonable performance and longevity.   And don't get me started on obsolescence, the need for repairs and the availability (or not) and price of spare parts.

5 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Sizing aside, I won’t go near those Chinese sites for philosophical reasons. I dislike everything they stand for 

Understood but, footwear aside, you must find it difficult to buy almost anything these days as so much seems to come from China!

1 hour ago, Cali said:

It's been cold and rainy for the past week.  One a brief moment of sunlight I tried out my new JS Therisa.  I happy with these.

 

A size too large??

6 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

I typically need to go to a Chinese version of  EU 43 for most Chinese makes for my U.S. size 10.5, UK 8. UK 12 would be way above normal even for make feet. Not too surprising you'd struggle finding heels that large wherever you'd look. Good luck. 

If the Chinese size you buy is said to be Eu43, that seems a good conversion of UK9, or USW11, so not far out.   Many Chinese offerings go up to so-called Eu47/48/49, or even beyond, but they are NOT true size according to stated length.   A true Eu46 (= UK11.5 or USM12.5) is by no means large for a male foot these days.   My point is that quoted Chinese sizes seem exaggerated, especially the larger ones.   Onlymaker may be a happy exception, perhaps resulting from customer feedback.

1 hour ago, Jkrenzer said:

Yah, they have so many up to very large sizes and constantly list them as unisex. The idea of calling high heels unisex is actually great. 

It rather depends upon what you mean by 'very large sizes'.    The lengths quoted for the largest listed sizes (e.g. Eu45 - 48 or so) almost invariably seem to be too small to be a true match.   This makes me doubt that someone wanting such a size can actually get it, at least reliably.   I've not bought anything directly from China so cannot speak from experience, but a Chinese-made pair of (flat) sandals I bought through Amazon were intentionally bought two numbered sizes bigger than normal and proved a correct fit.   What have others found about Chinese sizing; is it ever accurate?

9 hours ago, roundy said:

It certainly is sad to see a decline in the wearing of heels. These days it is unusual to see anyone wearing anything other than trainers and that’s even crept (maybe exploded) into formal wear - bonkers! Dress codes are disappearing from events over here in the UK, Cheltenham race course as an example. You used to have to dress smartly to get in but that was scrapped this year and the only thing not allowed to be worn is football shirts 🙄.

I personally think it’s just laziness with people these days. Heels can be comfy, but arguably not as comfy as a pair of trainers. Society has at some point agreed that it’s okay to sacrifice standards for a small increase in comfort - their argument probably being function over form. I would argue however that the function of the footwear is to help maintain a smart standard of appearance and not just in a formal environment. Standards have slipped and that is the new normal.

I noticed Cali say that they are struggling to find the shoes that they could readily get a few years ago and the number of heels has decreased. I can’t really comment on this in the more ‘standard’ sizes, but as I am a UK 12, I don’t think I have ever seen so many heels for myself! Perhaps this is driven by the fact that these are as mentioned by puffer becoming regarded more as fetish wear?

I agree with you about lax dress codes and slipping standards.   Interestingly, however, my TV observations (particularly on the BBC, nationally or regionally) suggest that, even if a female presenter or newsreader is in fairly casual clothing (trousers; leggings; sweater etc), she is likely to be wearing courts or boots with a 3.5 - 4.5" heel, typically stiletto.   I doubt that this is a BBC dresscode requirement - and it clearly doesn't apply so much outside a studio - but it suggests to me that these women are at least conscious of making a smart impression and realise that a pair of classic courts (little or no chunkiness or platform) is a good way of achieving it.

I attach one example: Naga Munchetty on BBC Breakfast.   She occasionally wears trainers but is usually in stilettos.   Nice leather skirt too!

I agree too about the greater choice of footwear for those of us with big feet - I am a UK11/12.   ASOS in particular is recognising the demand, and the styles are not what I would call fetish wear.

10 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I think that’s true here too. We seem to be living in an age of almost puritanical tyranny where a humourless minority sets the tone in everything from fashion to politics. The frivolity and joie de vivre of high heels merits their profound disapproval and so we see this change in styles 

There is certainly a killjoy element around, often masked by 'woke' or other humourless/intolerant attitudes and reinforced by growing - sometimes draconian - regulatory restriction.   Indeed, I wonder whether we shall have any tangible/worthwhile freedoms in a decade or so.   But, contrary to that (and despite it - perhaps as a backlash), there seems to be a growing tendency of extremes of behaviour and self-expression.   Protests (however well-founded) are becoming more violent and disruptive and crime is not only increasing but also poorly policed.  High heels may be increasingly regarded as fetish-wear rather than everyday smart fashion, which is unfortunate, but I increasingly see (with 'profound disapproval', sometimes disgust) tattoos, piercings and extreme hairstyles that truly make me doubt people's perception of beauty and good taste.   

Perhaps the truth of it is that we have largely lost the will, and maybe also the ability, to act with restraint and consideration whilst retaining a sense of self-respect, humour and tolerance.   And I don't see that changing for the better.

12 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Pension? What pension? I’ve been freelancing for nearly 30 years. Looking forward to an old age eating one meal of cold porridge a day by the light of a guttering candle…

Cold porridge by candlelight?   You're lucky - thin gruel under the stars is about all I could muster (so my butler keeps reminding me).

13 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I do not believe that it is ever an all-or-nothing situation, or at least rarely. Who among us suddenly decided one day, "Hey, guess what? I'm wearing heels today! And I'm going to make sure everybody knows I'm wearing heels!" Maybe somebody did that, but very, very few. No, we thought about it for a long time--maybe years--and then we eventually ventured out wearing 3 inch block heeled booties under flared jeans, feeling great, but at the same time wondering how people were going to react to us. Complete confidence towards the world does not necessarily equal freedom. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are certain things I don't worry about at all that I probably should, like the state of my retirement pension.

That surely sums up the historical experience of most of us here.   We survived (and generally flourished) and the sky remained intact and properly positioned.  

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

There’s a pretty hefty percentage here too as you might imagine, but it’s not that big a deal here at all - and what little there is seems mostly imported from the US

I am pretty sure that the Irish living in the UK do celebrate St Patrick's Day with some gusto, but without the very public razzmatazz that seems prevalent in the US.   Go into any 'Irish' bar in England today and you will find the Guinness flowing very freely.

As if wearing ballet boots was not difficult enough, this You-tuber decided to add a tightrope (or perhaps a not-so-tightrope, or tape) ...