DandyDude

Okay, I'll leave you two lovebirds alone. You two decide what "Wolfie" is going to wear. I still say the matching legwear and ballets, but that's just me.

Bringing this back up as it is still relevant...

When did all the musicians start showing up here? As I've said before, that is the sort of thing we need. Perhaps someone can invite Toxic Twist and their friends to join these boards.

Well, if you are NOT going to be wearing it to work, then the first thought would be a St. Trinians look. That would play into the sexy schoolgirl look you say you don't want. I still say have the monochrome hose and ballets. That would give it a sort of 1980s look. Anything else would have either the schoolgirl or cybergoth look you say you don't want. Perhaps you want to wear an oversized denim jacket with the sleeves pushed up, a striped tee, net stockings and Chuck Taylors?

I've seen several posts by women on these boards lamenting that people call them "sluts" and "whores" for wearing heels. Those insulting women are only expressing the views of the female mafia. A lot of women are insecure about themselves, so they attack men who seem to do what they consider female things better than they do. I'm not talking about actual female imitators, merely someone who is able to pull off heels. As I've said before, I'd like it to become as it was when heels for men were considered a left-field style choice for men, rather than some chapter in the DSM as it is now.

Wolfgang, I think you ought to acknowledge the hijacking of that type of skirt by Spears and play a twist on the schoolgirl look. If you wear the green ballets/matching hose, it will present a clean line. The pink top and alice band will give it a sort or neo-1980s look. Whatever you do, don't wear the white kneesocks, as that WILL play into the schoolgirl look you don't want.

Those who are willing to allow their lives to be ruled by a comittee called "they" are inevitably heir to all manner of fears and the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. How can anyone say they have truly lived unless you have decided to chuck all that judgmental stuff and live life to the fullest, regardless of what "they" think? I still herald: Unto thine own self be true!

"They" can, and do, make it much harder for people to do anything that doesn't fit into a prescribed mould. The male role has become narrower and narrower with each passing year. The hip hop fetters on a new generation are making things worse. Forgive me if the thought of being rounded up and forced to either be a FUBU or to be labelled as something inherently repressive such as "TG" does not appeall to me.

Individualism has its limits. The "individualism" of an Ayn Rand is complemented by the herd mentality of Naziism.

I would think she's from Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire...

When a girl I've dated discovered I wore heels, the first questions she asked me was, "have you ever had any relations with another man?" The usual string of questions about being gay, bi, etc., so I can understand why those who're straight tend to be a little sensitive about being labeled as gay just because they enjoy wearing heels, skirts, or other clothing normally designed for and worn by women.

It wasn't that long ago, or maybe it was, that a man who wore heels was considered a bit daring. That alone made him more attractive to women. I think all the talk about "transgender," a system of classification that is highly oppressive to anyone who doesn't fit the narrow hip hop (Down-Low) definition of masculinity, has pretty much queered, no pun intended, the chances of heel wearing returning to its previous state of being a sort of daring thing that gets women.

When I started wearing heels, I got more attention from hotter girls, I was a boy myself, and that sort of reinforced it with me.

I don't think male heel wearing will ever become even the left-field fashion it was before, too much bogus masculinity going on and too many attempts by the gender crowd and their psych allies to label everything a mental illness and then shove it into the little "transgender" box.

Shrimper, she said that she wanted to wear flat-heeled shoes. Those ballet pumps would be perfect. They are pretty and would be very comfortable. Wolfgang, I know I didn't mention it before, but what do you mean by "over the knee tights?" Do you mean capri-length leggings? If not, do you mean thigh-highs?

...what they said...

What are the colours in the skirt aside from green? If it has black, then the top you mention may work okay. White hose would need black ballets especially with a black top, and that would really play into the schoolgirl/Lolita stereotype you wish to avoid.

There is no way to avoid the association, especially since BSpears permanently made those skirts associated with her.

My suggestion would be to not try and pretend the association doesn't exist. Instead, acknowledge and twist it a bit. For example, wear green opaque legwear and green ballet pumps. A pale pink top would be a good match, perhaps a matching alice band for your hair.

These would be the shoes: http://www.frenchsole.com/collection/ballet-flats-stock.php?style_id=1

I noticed the influx of posters from these boards to that site has already started!

From my personal experience I can say it's quite easy to purchase the kind of heels for roleplaying/fetish, but almost impossible to get heels, especially in my size USA/M13, for regular wear. While I do like stilettos, it would be great to have half of the selection of heels women have. I'm not even talking about courts et cetera, but basic heels such as the Harleys Micha mentions above. As for the designer above: Ask him about designing more of a regular type heel as well as the more provocative ones. Don't forget larger sizes as well.

Susan- I basically agree with Chris' post. I tend to associate with people who are more or less similar to me in crucial areas. There would be not much chance for me to become involved with a woman who is expecting a man who would (seemingly) willingly play the straightlaced role to the hilt. If I did encounter such a woman and we somehow hit it off, she might very well be a hidden vixen herself. I've known a few kinky female lawyers in my time. Yes, there is no excuse for abuse, whether mental or physical. I do believe, however, that there can be a back and forth effect regarding certain problems. For example, if a woman tells a man he can't wear something as if he is a child, then he may get angry. I think the mildest amongst us would do that much. I also believe that male secretiveness and a woman's insecurity can play off of each other. If you have a straightlaced businessman type who relieves the tension in his life by xdressing, by which I mean actually trying to create a pseudo female, a woman trying to boss him around may very well set him off. I also know that woman like to test men to see what they can get away with. Again, the families/lives that are ruined by the extreme things I mentioned on the other threads, there is no excuse for that. I'd say, again, that people need to go into relationships with their eyes open. Women expecting a man to be a stereotypical manly man may find out that he is/becomes a man's man!

This post is taking this thread round a bit of a corner, I just want to comment on something I read on the girls' forum and this is probably the place. Yakumo doesn't care about his partner's health in twenty years. He says he will carry her around for the rest of his life. What would make any sane woman believe that? He thinks so little of her that to gratify his desire to see her wear high heels that he doesn't care if she does permanent damage to her body.

With comments like of this quality from guys posting on the girls' forum, no wonder there is resentment, and no wonder we're all tarred with the same brush.

The post you are referring to is the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid when I first came to the original boards. I liked HHP because it appeared to be more of a social club as opposed to many, many boards on the net where the most vile things are posted. What I wear is a style to me, much like the mods with their 3" heel boots, drainpipe trews, and black eyeliner. I have no interest in reading, let alone participating in, discussions where people brag about mutilating themselves. There are other boards for that.

I'd gotten mad because the influx of certain types of posters have caused a change in the more casual atmosphere there was at one time. That seemed to drive off woman posters as well as to stultify what conversation there was left. I still don't like the fact that the few of us who posted occassionally in the women's forum to ask a question or to be in the discussion and still keeping in mind the purpose of the forum, were being punished because of the actions of the influx of those certain types of posters into that forum.

As I've said, I've abided by the new rules. I was never one of those who took over the forum anyway, merely an observer who would occassionally ask a question or three. Let the "resurrection" thread revert to its original topic, and direct any comments to Susan to her thread. Perhaps the common forum will grow in postings.

I'd much rather a 13yearold read these boards than a hiphop board or a board run by child-abuse advocating crazies. Keep the fetish things out, ghettoise the gender crowd as is being done, and perhaps a youngster reading this board will be able to learn something from it without being scarred for life.

Admin-I was answering Susan from a post she made before you said anything. Yes, the topic has changed considerably from the original post. As has been mentioned, going off on tangents is not always easy to avoid. I said what I did about continuing it from another, previous thread in order to establish some sort of continuity elsewhere. It was intended to either put the thread to rest or to get the postings back to the original topic, but by my last post being replied to, it has been continued, which was not my intention. Thank you.

To Susan- Thank you for your welcome candor. Some of the type of people I was referring to may very well turn into the type of people who abuse. I'm sure a lot of them merely get lost in their fantasy world and end up leaving their families to play pretend woman. Abuse is unacceptable, and the kind where the family is broken up over the man's fantasy is harmful as well, albeit not in so much a physical but more emotional sense which can be worse. Being a man can be very frustrating, and those who are not able to integrate their personalities may be driven over the edge by their own contradictions. Personally, I come from a style angle. I'm not trying to fulfill a fantasy of being a woman, which I think may arise as I said above from stress at the role a man is expected to play. Women can do so many things a man can't, one of them is to dress as they please. "Men"'s clothes are, frankly, hideous, especially more so with the control of hiphop on two generations now. If a woman dresses as a stereotypical man, she may be called a dyke, but probably not assaulted. If a man were to get femmed up and walk down the street, he may very well be killed. Those are extremes, of course. There are other factors of inequality as well, but they are for another discussion. Again, abuse is unacceptable. I do think people ought to try and go into relationships with their eyes open and not be blinded by stereotypical expectations. A super straight laced businessman would be the most likely to engage in those actions, the classic transvestite being a super-strict type with women's undies under his suit. I wanted to answer Susan, and perhaps this topic could be continued on my "Segregated..." thread below on this forum as it would please the admin.

Okay Katherine, I'll elaborate. Perhaps "a certain amount" would be a better choice of words. I'm referring to those who evntually leave their families and try to live as woman. I am not talking about your run of the mill male heel wearer. I'm talking about a certain group that considers wearing heels to be somehow being female. I'm trying to avoid anything that might offend a casual surfer here, so I may not be as clear as I would like to be. I can send you some links, but I won't post them as I don't wish to give any publicity to those sites.

I mentioned what I did because I thought maybe Susan above was obliquely referring to men who do start out wearing heels in a secretive manner, lying to their wives and then trying to live as a woman. From what I understand, that sort of thing causes anguish to many women. My above post was trying to tell her that most of us are not that way.

Again, my wording could have been better and I'll change it now.

Jay

To PIB, do you think heels for men will ever become fashionable again or do you think as I do, that society has gone so far into the Tims/FUBU/chaff look that it will never happen? Have you thought of posting a link to your bf's band pix so we can see an actual male musician wearing heels? Where does he get his heels?

Susan, I think I understand what you are talking about when you refer to what heeling men have "done" to you and other women you are referring to. Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you thinking about the sort of man who acts extremely stereotypically masculine; wears heels in secret and lies to his wife about it; has feelings of shame; and then up and decides he wants to live 24/7 as a woman or unreasonable facsimile thereof? If so, I understand your worries as a *certain amount* of men who start out wearing heels DO end up leaving their families to live as pretend women. There are sites all over the internet where men brag about the steps they take to achieve their virtual womanhood. I can think of some sites that even advocate "treatment" of young boys who don't act enough like the stereotype of what society thinks they ought to be. I'd say if that sort of thing didn't bother you, you would be quite perverse. However, not all heeling men are that way. There are some, such as myself, who consider it to be more or less a style. I NEVER try and pass myself off as a woman, I've no desire. For some men, the stress of the male role is so much that they start to confuse society's role with something genetic, thereby going off the deep end and becoming entranced with the idea of being a woman. My personality is more integrated than to have that happen. As for the sex-segregation of the forums, I agree with you. I think by doing so, a new thrill is set up for the gender crowd. What better way for them to get vicarious thrills than to register and post as a woman in a supposedly all-woman forum? That's just another form of "passing." As for the childbirth/orgasm thing, 'twas a crude attempt at levity based on the fact that women's feet/toes become as en pointe when the woman is quite aroused. Names? I think a lot of men are slithering around these boards afraid of being recognised, which would be why they don't use names but nyms. You can call me Jay if you'd like. Please feel free to speak your mind. Jay

I used to go to midnight showings. A few of us would be let in the backdoor by a member of the floor cast. A good time was had by all.

the so called "sex segrigation" is THE BEST thing to happen to this place.... it just happened 4 years too late!

I too would love a girlfriend that liked me, understood my Disability (high functioning Autisim) , my "interest" and like me, likes a good time!

I don't agree about the segregation, obviously. Perhaps you should reread my post more carefully.

Interesting how almost everything is labelled a "disability" nowadays. It's like the DSM lumping heel wearing men in with the genderly confused crowd.

I've never had the pleasure of meeting a woman in person that was into me wearing heels. (I mean I live in the midwest... nuff said.) God knows I would love to though.

There was a time when you could see many heel wearing men throughout the midwest. What is interesting is the fact that women who are older tend to be the ones who have the worst reactions, yet in their youth, male heels were actually fashionable.

Hey guys,

As a 29 y/old headstorng and extremely independent,career female,with an extreme heel fetish, you attracted my curiosty.

I have no problem with guys heeling at all...can be a turn on in some cases...

I figure if you like it and feel comfy doing it....so be it...

Heel-Power to you guys................

Cheers

Vicious HH

XXXXXX

I'm having a flashback to ye olden tymes on these boards before the sex-segregation foolishness even started. Kudos to you.

From what I've seen, older threads prior to the moratorium date have indeed been grandfathered.

There may be a slip here and there, but that date was very well discussed and will be honored. I'll bring up possible slips on the moderator's forum.

Thank you.

I've noticed a few "slips" today.

Ain't that the truth!

I've done a good bit of lay counseling over the years, and having worked with several good friends who're either psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, or marriage and family therapists, we've all come to the conclusion that those who wrote the DSM-IV havent' the slightest clue as to how fashion has varied throughout the ages, or even throughout the world's present.

They should rip their noses out of the fashion world and stick to hard science, such as schizophrenia and other real disorders.

Some people skydive. Some people edit encyclopedias. I guarantee you both occur in far lesser proportions than men who wear skirts of heels, so, statistically speaking, skydivers and encyclopedia editors are more absnormal than crossdressers, and deserve their own special chapter in the DSM-IV!

Ernest Borgnine collected stamps - probably the only actor in the history of Hollywood who did. Does that mean he should be committed?

Seriously, I strongly suspect the folks that wrote the DSM-IV were being strongly pressured from certain mentally obsessive-compulsive conformists who want a perfect, uniform world - their uniform, and I also strongly suspect about half the folks who wrote the DSM-IV were themselves possessing of these obsessive-compulsive disorders.

As for the clinicians who refer to the DSM-IV like it's a holy bible of psychology, phooey! Their idiots, unable to think for themselves and realize 9 Billion people will never fit into a two-inch-think book.

I think a large part of the DSM was written to give the drug/dope pushers a larger profit!