when men wore high heels

[prettyboots]

it seems to me if you care to look @ those old 15th century paintings & such, you'll quickly find that MEN wore some pretty high heeled shoes (& boots ofcourse) so how is it that all this time has gone by only to NOW tell us (in recent decades) that high heels are for WOMEN!!? there is somthing in the western mind that has COMPLELTY changed around a very BASIC concept of MASCULIN fashion I have always found those shoes very good looking on those men, whoever they were.

[Laurieheels]

Society is fickle! It's like this, and I hope this is the short version. Heels are a means of elevation, and they were required to be fashionable. Height was important for men and women in this time, for many reasons. Now the world changes, and the image of men becomes rugged. Men should be tall and strong, and not wear the feminine attire. We have a great division between men and women, and the high fashion is replaced by military looks. Essentially, the male fashions change in the age of the professional solider. Why? It is considered a good career. So kinds and princes and Dukes wear military uniforms, and are not so fashionable. The look is to be rugged and ready for military action. it says "I am a leader in these troubled political times" Women are continuing to be weak and dainty, even if not a choice but a requirement because of a male dominated society. So as fashion goes, men stay rugged into the 19th century with all of the war and politics, and women are made to be feminine, and with the independence we develop, we push the fashion in many directions. Men are still the hard workers, the soliders, the mechanics, and the emphasis is on them to work and provide. Women look nice. We're past that, now, and the social conventions can change. But until now, no one has viewed the change as acceptable. So give it time, because the social boundaries are breaking. But blame the rise of professional armies and political strife that generated the idea of solider as good, and the need for Nobility to dress in uniforms. Wow. I just threw that together. And that

[Francis]

Certain soldiers even wore high heels, again as a statement to their enemies. more high heels are needed, guys! more people wearing will mean the social barriers will fall faster

[Slim]

We can thank the French revolutionaries. The high heel was a sign of chivalry and nobility. The revolutionaries would have none of that. They wanted all men to drink from the same gutter and dress like French potato farmers.

[Laurieheels]

I'll agree with the nobility, Slim, but Chivalry? It's always been more of an ideal and a dream than something practiced by so called nobles. Oh, how critical of me.

[Francis]

oh no! he didn't use the typical french farmer look! It's onions, not potatoes! Did it look slightly like communism when the French revolution took place? Everyone equal, etc.? Well that wouldn't be too bad as it would mean high heels for everyone! YAY!!

[Slim]

Chivalrous, why sure, remember Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Buck Jones, Tom Mix and a host of others, they all wore heels and were extremely chivalrous! As for the French remember the French fry?

[Laurieheels]

French Fry? Not even invented in France, and Twentieth Century Cowboys don't count, because they were from a different time frame than oppulent French Nobles who lived off the toil of lower classes. But good on those cowpokes and their well heeled boots.

[Charlie]

Laurie: Chivalry is still alive today. I'll prove it to you if we should ever meet. I'll let you hold the door open for me. Charlie

[Laurieheels]

Oh yes, very funny. I am so amused... I'll just have to see to it that you open your own door.

[Francis]

oh yes! Chivalry! hang on! let me find my horse and suit of armour so I can go slay the dragon and rescue the damsel in distress! Nah! Opening doors is all well and good, but how many people these days will actually thank you, even if it's in the form of a silent acknowledgement. Chivalry is only useful if you wish to gain brownie points, otherwise it's wasted on the masses. I've given up on laying my coat over puddles for women after the last one walked over and disappeared! How was I to know it was a flooded manhole!

[ShockQueen]

OMG! That would be drop-dead funny if it was true! hee hee hee hee....

[Nata]

It will be very difficult especially in some cultures where even women wearing heels are not well accepted, let alone guys wearing them.

[Firefox]

Yeah high heels on guys can be cool. And Laurie was right. After Wellington and the Napoleonic wars, fashions really took a nosdive. However, prettyboot, don't bemoan your fashion fate, just get out there and wear them. Who cares what general fads dictate. Fashion is personal to the individual. There's quite a few more men doing it now. I saw a couple more in London recently

[ShockQueen]

That is true! Your fashion is more of an expression of yourself as an individual. If you look like everyone else, then it's not much of an adventure. If you blaze trails though, then people may want to pursue their own fashion freedoms as well. I'm bringin' my sledgehammer to bash the fashion molds of society! ***WHACK!!!***

[prettyboots]

oh yeah, I do wear my heels out in public, * I'll be damned if even CARE what strangers may think as they pass me by (or me them) believe me, there are LOT of boring clones out there, esp. where I live (south orange county CA, US) I am maybe the ONLY one that dresses like this around here & I'm VERY proud of it too!! more men should 2 least TRY to be more brave in their fashion ideas adn NOT so much like SHEEP (there were plenty of THOSE around whre I live years ago too, before it developed here)

[Dr. Shoe]

OK my turn! Now you've all intellectualised on men in history I'll tell you how it really was! The heel wasn't actually invented until 1603 and you will find no elevated heels in any painting painted before that. There were chopines but they were just platforms and provided no elevation at the heel. The heel was a coincident invention with the invention of the open stirup (?) because before this riders had cup stirups. The problem with open stirups is that the foot can easily slip through so the heel was invented to stop this from happening. They increased in height and women also started wearing them so that their men didn't tower over them. By the time that Pepys was writing his diaries in the late 1650s mens' heels would have been painted red and range fro 2-5" in height. There is a very good painting of Charles II enjoying a dance whilst wear just such a pair. There is also a splendid picture of the Duke of Richmond wearing a blsu satin outfit with a pair of white kidskin boots with virtually stiletto heels. By 1750, the heels had atrophied to no more than about 2" and were more discrete.

[Slim]

In the 1870’s some of Americas cowboys were wearing what they called “saddle dandies” with 4”+ heels that tapered down to no bigger than a quarter at the tips (less than an 1” sq). Why you could buy men’s boots with 2 1/2” regulation concave heels (Louis heels) right out of Sears and Roebucks catalog in the 1890’s. I don’t know what “regulation” meant.

[Firefox]

Mind you, who needs history to justify what feels right today? It's interesting all the same though.

[ShockQueen]

True enough! Today's styles are much more widespread than they were before. I love the variety that exists these days...it's kinda like being a kid in a candy store!

[Slim]

Because thoes who don't know history are doomed to repeat it! We havet to get off this flat heel kick, so its good to know what caused it. Dr. Shoe: I know the Duke of Richmond picture. Thoes boots look like the prototype for all spike heel thighighs!

[Firefox]

It seems that those who do know history are doomed to repeat it too. Witness the many conflicts in the world where the same futile killing and banging of heads agaist brick walls continues despite centuries of history proving it is futile.

[Laurieheels]

History. Something I understand all too well. See, if people forgot a bit more about political history and studied more social history, there would be more understanding. Instead of remembering that country A has always been at war with Country J, we would see just what the people of country A and J were all about, and if they knew those things, well, they may just stop fighting and realize that we are all people. Go social history! Brought to you by girl with social history degree.

[Firefox]

If people sat down and had a meal or a drink with each other occasionlly instead of insisting on their right to live in single language, single race, single religion ghettos then maybe they would realise they are the same inside and stop killing each other. Be social, be friends... But I digress, very off topic again, we are getting good at this. Any one have any more thoughts on high heel history? <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firefox on 2002-05-18 12:05 ]</font>

[Laurieheels]

My only thought is that we should all be making high heel history.

[IHeels]

All this is quite surprising when whilst men don't wear high heels in a mainstream context, they still do! Just have a look at Firefox,s Xaphod's and Calv's collections for undeniable proof. Inga

[Firefox]

It's true Inga, but the number of us is small. Maybe we are making high heel history by publicising it! And if all men started wearing them, not that it will ever happen, I would be a bit jealous, like Laurie has said, that something I had that was unique was no longer. However, my wish for people's comfort in what they wear would over-ride that.

[Laurieheels]

I am glad you get what I have been saying, Fox. It is finding a way to be unique and using it for self expression, and then everyone does it. There is not just jealousy, but frustration. What would I do if everyone dressed like I did? I hate crowds, and I never fit in, and in a way, I like that, even if it can be a touch lonely. I think I would lose my mind if every other woman and some men were wearing the same shoes as I was. Not that they're going to be able to handle the height that most of us can...

[Francis]

If everyone dressed the same then we would all suffer a sort of internal conflict. On the one hand we would admire the rest for their courage and insight to realise their dreams and, possibly, fantasies. The world would truly be liberated in both thought and deed. However, as I've already heard, jealousy would yet be another surmountable problem. Jealousy in that the heel heights would be a personal point to beat or just to try and copy. Surmountable because someone will overcome and adapt to wear the same or higher. Variety is one of the things that keeps the world going, in whatever form it shows, and to remove the variety would render the previous goals, that we strived to break down, once more brought to the fore. In short, for everyone to wear the same would just instill the type of reaction that we are currently showing to the world. I'm sorry, if that seems a little philosophical or half baked, but I've been drinking the whisky again and it always brings out the more intellectual side to my nature rather than the hit once, hit it again, hit it once more and then when nothing moves, try to ask a question approach. Alright, as I've once said, if everyone was the same, the world would be a very boring place. Drunken rant over !!

[Slim]

I like my heels and that no one else wears them. I don't want it to become the norm.