What do you think about the New Government in Afghanistan?

[Firefox]

Are the UN/USA approaching this in the right manner. Share your thoughts with other board members.

[Debbie(HK)]

I think that it's great that the ladies are once again free to do what they want after the oppression of the Taleban regime.

[Francis]

Now that the oppressive Taliban regime has been ousted it can only mean more freedom for all, especially the women who have been the underdog of everything in Afghanistan. Who knows, with a little time, we may just see a revival of their economy and status in the world. Their prospects are definately looking far more promising. However, UN/US forces shouldn't become blaise about there role, until Bin Laden is found, there will be a lot of dissention in the area, so the sooner he's found the better for all of them.

[Bob]

Oddly enought, not only was Osama Bin Laden trained by the USA, but at one time the Taliban (arabic for Student's Of God) were the good guy's! They were cheered into Kabul and cheered out! I guess this just goes to show how volatile the region is and to remind us to never again ignore it. I only hope that this is the start of better times for the afghans and that the americans also no longer just assume that the whole world loves them (sorry to our american cousins but i'm afraid the painfull truth is that many in the world are offended but america's apparent intent on homogenising the world into some kind of greater america)

[IHeels]

There's a lot of good points here, but I agree with Deb's most as I can't fathom societies that treat us (ladies) as bits of machinery! On the other side having a legal background don't you think the evidence is a bit contrived to get Osama, for example, video clips of Osama making statements, yeah its not hard to insert (dub) the text you want people to hear. Inga

[Firefox]

On the other hand, although the women are much more free I don't think they have truly equal rights like in our society. That's something I'd like to change not only in Afghanistan but in other countries too. I don't think religion can ever be an excuse for not having equal rights, or at least, if it is made to be so, then that religion is destined to fail or to produce a 3rd rate society, IMO anyway.

[Bob]

I think I should mention, that in Islam the rights of women and children are actually protected to a degree only bettered in the western world in the last 40/50 years and that in most cases in the muslim world it is the men and not religion that is the cause of most inequality, anyway, can we really call our society equal? Many still think it's odd for men to wear high heels and skirts and will bully or otherwise make fun of those who do! We've all got a long way to go, Afghanistan just has further, perhaps we can help each other

[Stu]

So far, so good. I know a lot of people back in September were skeptical that the U.S. could take effective action against al-Qaeda and the Taliban, but we are making good progress so far. The new government is a house of cards and would collapse easily without lots of TLC from the west, so Britain (as a lead peacekeeper) has an important role in stabilizing things there. I echo much of what has been said about women's rights. A newspaper article published about the time the Taliban started to collapse made the oberservation that some Afghan women could be seen wearing high heels under their burquas in the then-newly liberated towns. Let freedom ring!

[Francis]

Religion has never been a good point to base any type of society on, mainly due to the fact that the leaders of these so called 'free' societies interpret the teachings of their chosen religion to meet their own purposes. In this way they gain power, whether for financial or personal gain or simply to keep the 'subjects and followers' in line. In the same way the Taliban interpretted the Koran for their own purposes. Didn't God create everyone equal? So it's down to the people that read the book (or those who can read!) to interpret. It's like a foreign language, if you don't speak it, how the hell do you know what's being said? The interpretter can be telling you anything! This how oppression starts, through misunderstanding and purposeful misleading of the masses. I'll stick with my Klingon philosophy. To live and die by the sword!

[Charlie]

The U.S. position on matters was making good sense until I heard GWB refer to Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as "The axis of evil". Nothing like drawing a line in the sand! We all should be encouraging these nations that the world is a better place when we work and play well with one another! Name calling just pisses people off. I also think it's way too early to judge if the New Afgan government is going to work out or not. I sure hope it does. Charlie

[terayon]

frankly, i couldnt give two sh*tz bout the government in afghanistan, as long as they stop flying planes into stuff and keep to themselves its not my problem...but im glad they got rid of Osama Bin Laden, he is quite a terrible person, but then again...the northern alliance isnt any better...they are just the taliban with beards..but i guess time will tell on this one

[Dr. Shoe]

Actually, it's the Taliban AND the NA who wear beards! Delving into history shows that the reason for the Taliban was that the whole country was a collection of territories ruled by warring warlords who were all vieing for position. The Taliban just filled a vacuum left behind when the Russians went.

[Bob]

... and that's when we should have done all we can to help! The fact we didn't and just forgot about afghanistan when the russians left was I think a major mistake

[Highluc]

Fact is that in some countries a bunch of warlords have been and will be disputing forever, that's their culture (Somalia, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Balcan etc). No way to help them settle except by occupying their country "to help democracy". This costs a lot of money and offers little payback. Helping a few "tribes" by selling them weapons to supress the opposition allowed a form of stability and helped the home weapon industry surviving weak periods. In the end the former allies become ennemies (ex: Bin Laden fighting the Russians first) and a limited war is started by the supplying counties in the name of freedom but actually again helping the weapon industry. Forget the human aspect, it's all politics influenced by the economy. Some countries are at war since decades with lots of casualities and famine but unless the big war machine (or Bob Geldoff) gets involved, it even isn't mentionned in the news.

[Highluc]

You still think it is your countries duty and prerogative to enforce peace all over the world by overthrowing leaders that don't follow the free economy rules?

[Highluc]

I definitely agree on your last sentence, especially on the word PERSONS.

[Yamyam]

I agree about hunting down persons responsible for terrorist acts. OK, this is a UK perspective, but I've yet to hear any convincing evidence that Osama Bin Laden is responsible for anything except some dodgy-looking television broadcasts. I'm not really in favour of bombing Afghanistan until the rubble bounces without some evidence to the effect that yes, OBL was responsible for the terrorist attacks he's being hunted for, and that trashing Afghanistan is going to help. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Taliban (and I don't agree with them either), I don't think that the right thing is being done here. I also don't think that I'm going to be convinced on this one any time soon, either. How has replacing the government helped in any way at all? Sorry, but I want more evidence before I support the rubble-bouncers.

[hoverfly]

Some of the evidence is right in NYC where one time the World Trade buildings stood, the Pentagon damaged, approximately two thousands bodies, the ideates of the terrorists traced to affiliations of OBL, and Afghanistan. How much more do you need? I don't care what religion people practice. As long as you keep it to your self and others affiliated to it, to them selves. It is wrong to enforce it upon others who have no desire for it. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hoverfly on 2002-03-15 18:51 ]</font>

[Highluc]

Good thing they never discovered any of those terorists ever wore heels, they might have bombed all the heel factories as well to prevent any future attacks.

[terayon]

in the movies bin laden confessed to planning...or at the absolute *LEAST*, knowing of the attacks in advance, therefore he should be captured, and savagely beaten by many small frozen salmon wielding midget mexican lesbian porn stars while the world watches on CNN....

[IHeels]

Terayon, I'm not a supporter of Bin Laden, but I suspect some of it is propaganda. Films can be dubbed etc. Anyhow I do like your imagination to a degree (equity humm) as to the suitable punishment. Inga _________________ Platforms are for standing on, not for walking in. <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: IHeels on 2002-03-16 03:54 ]</font>

[Dr. Shoe]

Is it me or does Osama Bin Laden remind you of Fu Manchu? He recruits fanatics to do his dirty work whilst staying in his mountain hideout and escapes just as Nayland Smith destroys his HQ. "The world will hear from me again!"

[Bob]

There seems to be a gulf between Europe and North America developing here and i'm not talking about the Atlantic! I would ask our american friend to understand, that europe has suffered very badly over the past century as a result of a minority enforcing their ideology over the majority and therefore we are loathe to enforce our beliefs (and i'm not talking religion) on other countries. All europeans fought both with and against each other in two wars for the freedom of self expression, and this should apply to all countries and peoples around the world including afghanistan (and remember america, not one afghan was responsible for the attrocities perpetuated against your country) And besides, where was the US when the heart was ripped out of london by the IRA, or Eniskillen, Omagh, Warrington, Manchester to name but a few of the horrifying catalogue of attrocities carried out by terrorists funded by an american charity, NORAID? Is it any wonder that some of us on this side of the pond are asking, How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot? Your horror and indignation at such a foul act is only too well understood, and that is precisely WHY many of us are saying, RESTRAINT!, Britain and many of our european partners (not least in my experience Holland and Germany who have also been at the recieving end of the IRA) have long since learned that the best way to foil terrorists is to simply carry on as normal (or as much as is normal anyway) and to combat their missions through inteligence gathering and subversion Remember, these people are above all else cowards, they are not doing anything in any name but their own cowardice, greed and avarice, and no amount of bombs, high explosives or superbly executed military campaigns will make the slightest dent in them, in short, these are the most dificult types of people to fight against because you don't allways know where they are, after all, they are COWARDS! Well, that's my rant and please remember, it is only MY point of view (albeit garnered from years of fighting against terrorism)

[IHeels]

Well put Bob, totally agree with you! Why, looks like you've got some real facts and not artificial one's to support your statements. Inga

[Bob]

Unfortunately it's because of my own experience due to my job, fortunately nobody I know has suffered at the hands of terrorism, however, I have lost coleagues to it (one with a babe in arms, gunned down outside a shopping centre) I remeber once, after going shopping with my mum, making her wait whilst I checked my car for potential boobytraps, she was not impressed, however, working for let's just say, HM Government, I considered myself enough at risk to not check my car first. I have spent years doing so, only recently have I stopped (If it's gonna happen it will and there's nowt I can do to stop it) I feel compelled to ask our american friends, when was the last time you felt so paranoid and at risk that you had to check your vehicle EVERY time you went to it? And why do you think after everything that's happened recently (and let's not forget a SIZEABLE number of non americans were involved, in fact, a british citizen who was married to an american but only gained entry through his green card, is now threatend with deportation by 9/11/02 unless she leaves sooner, how heartless) you think that isolationism is the best answer? It didn't work in 14/18. Why do you expect the world to side with you when you don't side with the world (you said yourself that you don't cry out in anger unless US citizens are involved)? The world is a big messy place and requires a lot of patience, unfortunately many countries feel that america is guilty of the ultimate sin, cultural imperialism, and britain gets tarred with the same brush because we ARE good friends with the US (Senator Mitchell has worked tirelessly to try and mediate with irish terror groups), we must all understand that it is the sheer diversity of cultures, religions, systems of commerce and governance that makes the world what it is, I for one wouldn't want to go around the world and see nothing more that an overgrown europe or, heaven forbid, a hollywood version of the world! Unfortunately it is this very diversity and our own ignorance of it that causes so much misunderstanding Insofar as Afghanistan is concerned, lets not condemn them for what Al Qaeda did, after all, not one Afghan was responsible for Sep 11, and not one Afghan has ever been a member of Al Qaeda (and this from a brit, who since sep has seen images of literally hundreds of Afghan "refugees" risking their lives trying to get to the UK via the channel tunnel)

[Dr. Shoe]

I quite agree. I must ask the question: "Who is the terrorist?" Let's look at the facts: We have several buildings destroyed in America by the biggest single criminal atrocity the world has ever seen. We have a religious fanatical group whose modus operandi is suicide bombing. We have a master terrorist that the US has been itching to take out for years. We have a country with vast, unexploited oil deposits which is ruled by a harsh, brutal, fundamentalist regime with which it is impossible for major US oil companies to deal with. We have a US president who is something of a warmonger and lacks the wisdom and restraint that his father was noted for. In addition, he is easily manipulated by big industry (note the steel import tariffs). We have an administration that wants to go after Iraq simply because the major US oil companies cannot do business with that nation's government. (American voters are starting to complain that they are paying too much for their fuel). We have a nation that is 10% of the world's population and yet uses 90% of the world's resources. September the 11th 2001 was the prime excuse needed to "put things right". But to whose benefit? In the late 18th century, post revolutionary France wanted to spread their political doctrine- at the point of a gun. In the 19th century it was Britain's turn; nearly 2/3 of the world map was coloured pink (a traditional colour mapmakers use for GB and colonies). The 20th century saw the rise of the US. So what's the difference between a few fanatics flying jets into skyscapers to emphasise their point of view and a squadron of B52s, a battalion of Sepoys or a regiment of Hussars to emphasise someone else's?