Discovering a little more about myself

Gothikaheels · October 1, 2003

As time goes on I'm getting into higher heels, iv loved heels since I was 6, and by the time I was 8, I got into skirts, lingere, and womens clothes too. When I was 13 I figured out i like skimpy little skirts and things of that sort(looking like a stripper). Now at 15, I'v realized I want breast implants... I'v always liked putting in padding under a bra. But now I want breasts, I dont know what to do, tell people, or not. Such a big decision in my life, I'm not gay though, or bi, straight with a girlfriend and proud. Any thoughts or comments?

new_look · October 1, 2003

i think its asking for trouble mate. takes a step away from being your natural self doing things you enjoy, into altering yourself ointo an image that you want. Your choice pal but me in your shoes would stay clear.

Firefox · October 2, 2003

You've probably got some transvestite or even transexual tendencies. Most people like this are actually heterosexual as you say. You're still quite young as people can develop a lot sexually between 15 and 21, especially guys, so your feelings may well change. I wouldn't fight any feelings though. Like you say, discover more about yourself. If you still feel the same way into your 20's then a sex change could be an option, but you should not get into that sort of thing without a lot of expert advice or counselling. It may be that you will quite happy expressing your other side through dressing or other activities. The main thing is that you will be happy through your whole life with your chosen path, and you probably wont know which way to go for sure for a few years yet.

J-Nation · October 2, 2003

some practical stuff first - getting breast implants is a lot less straightforward for genetic males than for females - first, the surgery itself is more complicated as the implants are usually inserted behind the chest wall muscles (because we don't have the quite the same breast tissue as women) so it's more painful and takes longer to recover. Secondly, it will be very difficult to find a reputable cosmetic surgeon who will do the job in the first place 'just like that' (almost certainly, in the US) - most would normally require some sort of evidence of being transgender/transexual (usually in the form of a letter from your physician and then probably only after 12 or 18 months of hormone treatment and full time living in the social gender role) Then, the implants don't last forever, so you'll have to go back to have them replaced sometime in the future. Afterwards, have you thought about what it'll be like to live with breasts full time? (possibly as a guy?) Apart from staying home from school/work all day to play with them you'll be stuck with them 24/7 - do you ever swim/go to the gym/beach/sunbathe etc? (probably not, if you want to keep that pale goth look!) so you need to consider that. You really need to think about this and maybe discuss it with a professional if you believe you have gender identity issues. If you want some links to transgender stuff, PM me and I'll send you off list. Emma

Gothikaheels · October 2, 2003

Im actully not a pale goth, lol, but I do work out, benching 210 right now, and i go to the beach and swim alot... I have a light tan, but not pale at all. I don't want to change my gender, I love my manhood and proud of it! I just want breasts, I WANT to live with them 24/7 thats one of the reasons in getting them, sure I'll have my own toys to play with .

Firefox · October 2, 2003

Well good luck with it, but I seriously would wait a few years to see how your feelings are then, when you are considering something permanent like that.

Gothikaheels · October 2, 2003

Oh, I have to wait a few years, im only 15 and living with my mother, if she found out she'd probably hit the roof and start screaming FAG, she knows I wear high heels and doesn't care, she goes with me and such to buy me heels and doesn't encourage me like my girlfriend does persay but she buys them for me. Nobody except my closed friend which is a girl knows about my Crossdressing fetish and my desire to get Implants but if my mom figured out she'd kill me, also the side im looking for is in the fetish range, not just DD and im not good with sizes but i want something AT LEAST twice as big as a DD; AT LEAST. So my mom would kill me, since my father does not live with me, or she would hit the roof and start yelling fag and other gay terms, I have to at least wait 2 years till I can get out of the house.

Firefox · October 2, 2003

A few people must know about your preferences as I think you said you wore heels to school. Mind you just cos you wear heels it doesn't mean you also x-dress, so they may not figure. I wear heels and don't x-dress. The only other things I might wear occ would be nail varnish or silver jewelry but that's a goth thing. I did try a skirt once but it's not my style. Everyone is different in these respects. I've never wanted breasts though, I think they would impede my golf swing Size DD is just massive too. They'd get in the way of loads of things so it would have to be a very careful decision.

Gothikaheels · October 2, 2003

About the DD getting in the way of things remember, I at least want twice the size of DD, and I really do not do much except attend school, work out, and sit on my computer, so the implants wouldn't make a big difference on my life except make me happier with myself.

Highluc · October 2, 2003

My opinion is that it would be ideal for you to start looking for a psychiatrist with previous experience with transgendered people. You obviously have gender dysphoria brewing in one form of another and with the tumult of hormones raging through your body during puberty this could still take on various forms (or even disappear). Going to a specialized shrink early could after the correct diagnosis get you some form of treatments that delay or stop the formation of secondary sex characteristics (i.e. facial and body hair), that are so difficult to reverse if desirable at a later stage. Don't understand me wrong, you are not sick and therefore cannot be cured but obviously need professional help. Names of local specialized professionals can be obtained through the Harry Benjamin professional association, or local tri-ess groups in the US. Good luck in your life, you're gonna need it.

Gothikaheels · October 2, 2003

So highluc, your telling me that, me getting implants is bad, it's what I want to do. I dont want to be a different gender, I love being a guy, I just want breasts... when you said that I'm getting a picture of my mother in my head... UGH.

Bubba136 · October 2, 2003

Hey Man! If you want breasts, go get'em! After all, it's your life and you can screw it up anyway you chose. But, always remember, you have to live with your choices. As my father used to tell me when ever I wanted to take a particularly "unwise" decision. "Son, be sure your shoulders are broad enough to bear the consequences of your decision." Or "actions have consequences!" There's a lot of good advice given here. Particularly from Emma, FF and Highluc. Perhaps it would be to your benefit to heed some of it -- particularly the part that goes "wait a few years" and "seek professional help."

Highluc · October 2, 2003

So highluc, your telling me that, me getting implants is bad, it's what I want to do. I dont want to be a different gender, I love being a guy, I just want breasts... when you said that I'm getting a picture of my mother in my head... UGH.

There is absolutely nothing in your reply that matches what I wrote, please read attentively and think before replying. By the way, in your original post you asked for thoughts and comments. You got them, and not only from me. Maybe it wouldn't be bad to take some advise from people who have been facing similar problems and found long term acceptable solutions for it. You are still (too) young, don't ruin the rest of your life on impuses you could regret later.

Gothikaheels · October 2, 2003

Highluc, by going to a psychiatrist(in america at least) is basically that you ate screwed up in the head and need "help" I dont see any reason why I should need help, im not transgendered, I dont want to be a woman, I just want a pair of feminine parts. Thats all.

Dr. Shoe · October 2, 2003

I would say that you are almost certainly not transgendered or dysphoric in any way, you just want HUGE tits! When I enquired about getting implants (largely for the same reason but not so big) I was told that no surgeon would do it unless I had had a consultation with my doctor. I could go to the Phillipines, Thailand or any other country with a lady-boy culture which would have worked out cheaper but less reliable. A TG friend suggested that I try a pair of silicone falsies which I attached with some spirit-gum and wear them for a week. It soon put me off I can tell you!

sscotty727 · October 2, 2003

Highluc, by going to a psychiatrist(in america at least) is basically that you ate screwed up in the head and need "help"

That isn't necessarily true and I don't think that is what anyone here is suggesting. They are just saying that the operation (if you did have it done) would be pretty much irreversable and have effects in your life. Before you go through such a procedure which will effect the rest of your life, see professional guidance to make sure it isn't a "phase" you are going through now and will regret later in life, but rather something that is infact deep inside you that you want and would regret if you never did it. I think they are also saying (and I agree) that at your age it is way too early to make the decision that you definitely do what this. Things I wanted at the age of 15 I am glad now that I never did them.

Skirted-UK · October 2, 2003

What everybody here has said is good sound advice. At 15 you can't begin to understand how much you will change both mentally and physically in the next 10 years. 10 years might seem like a long time to you at 15, but you will find that time goes quicker as you get older. If you have no desires to be a woman you are going to look very strange as a 20 something muscular young man with large breasts. If these feeling persist I really think that you should discuse them with a psychiatrist.

Highluc · October 2, 2003

I would say that you are almost certainly not transgendered or dysphoric in any way, you just want HUGE tits!......

Wrong: In the specialised literature the term transgendered often refers to a wide scala of gender dysphoria ranging from mild cross dressing to full transsexualism. In other cases the term is used specifically to define people happy with their born gender (and equipment) but desiring some adaptation of their body with a or certain parts usually found on the other gender. With what I read so far, heeled shoes, skirts, breast envy, this subject definitely falls into either category and as such has to be labeled transgender. This is nothing to be ashamed off, because it already has been proven it is independant about somebodies will or education, it just happens in one form of another in roughly one in 12000 persons (male to female and 1/30000 FtoM). Being a TG myself I've been reading a lot about the subject and over the years have been sliding along that wide scala lately.

Dr Shoe, you might be an expert on shoes, but there is a very approriate saying in Flamish: "schoenmaker blijf bij je leest", which traduces as "cobbler, stay with your last", or in clear terms: if you are not really familiar with a subject, leave it to the specialists.

Skirted-UK · October 3, 2003

I disagree slightly here with Highluc. I have worn skirts and high heels for years, purely for the fun of wearing them. I don't consider myself to be transgendered. It seems to me that Gothikaheels has Transvestite tendencies which are running away with him. I would say to him by all means try skirts and heels, you can take them off and be a normal boy, but breast implants are very permenent. What are you going to do when you have to go for a job interview, how will you hid them? About 25 years ago I decided to pierce my ears so that I could wear earrings, at the time it was unusual for men to have both ears pierced. Having got over the excitment of wearing earrings I suddenly realised that my pierced ears were now permenent and I began to worry that someone would ask me why I have pierced ears like a woman. I used to fill the holes with make-up foundation to hid them. I don't bother now, but at the time I was always worried that someone would notice them.

Highluc · October 3, 2003

I disagree slightly here with Highluc. I have worn skirts and high heels for years, purely for the fun of wearing them. I don't consider myself to be transgendered.

Hi skirted, whatever you consider yourself might not stroke with what the professional medical world categorises you in. I was like you during decades, also enjoying mostly heels (in public) and sometimes a skirt (in private), always straight heterosexual (been married twice), but even that limited crossdressing automatically puts us in in the general transgendered category, meaning some desires from both genders, not to be confused with wanting to become the other gender. Due to a recent near death experience I started shifting even further down the scale but some stay happy along the same point all their life.

Self acceptance is the most difficult obstacle to conquer and the need of society to push people into (well defined?) squares (man,cd,drag queen,tv,ts,women, gay,tomboy, etc) forces us to adopt names and lifestyles that might not completely stroke with our inner desires.

Some people can live a happy life with just some limited expression of their feminine side (everybody has a bit of both sides hidden within), while others develop an uncontainable desire to cross even more barriers or even change sex completely. The division of man and women in only those 2 categories is a pure western invention (other civilisations have more genders) enforced by our priests, but in fact humanity is not so black and white, we are a continuum with only a few being "pure", the rest happily finds a way combining their (different) percentage of both gender feelings into a workable compromise of life. The more you approach the middle mark, the more problems you will get (from society) to express your true feelings and desires.

Please also note all this discussion has nothing to do with sexual preferences which is a completely different and independant story.

Bubba136 · October 3, 2003

Hmmm! Isn't language funny? Most of the participants here would define "transgendered" as a man or woman wanting to change their sex to the opposite of what they are. A man wanting to become a woman, for example.

Highluc reveals that the actual definition is much broader, and encompases a lot more than just changing one's sex.

specialised literature the term transgendered often refers to a wide scala of gender dysphoria ranging from mild cross dressing to full transsexualism. In other cases the term is used specifically to define people happy with their born gender (and equipment) but desiring some adaptation of their body with a or certain parts usually found on the other gender. With what I read so far, heeled shoes, skirts, breast envy, this subject definitely falls into either category and as such has to be labeled transgender.

Good lesson for all of us.

Ionic · October 3, 2003

Semantically speaking, there can't yet be an absolute right or wrong definition of the meaning of 'transgendered' but certainly, so that we don't misunderstand each other and get ourselves upset, we need to be very clear about what we actually mean and how we express ourselves.

The main thing is sensitivity and tolerance to each other as we explore all these feelings.

There are political reasons why the meanings of words can get contested and modified under pressure; are we trying to do this here?

/I

Bubba136 · October 3, 2003

Why can't there be? Actually, words are created to mean what they're defined to mean. Just because we chose to alter the original meaning doesn't mean our use is correct? Actually, it isn't. We, all of us here, actually know what we're talking about when we use the term "Transgender," and unless we're really getting clinical, apply it to the situations we're describing. So, no worries, mate. Besides, I haven't noticed anyone that has been discussing this word getting "wrapped around the axle" about it. As far as tolerating something goes, tolerating doesn't mean we've got to agree or like it. It doesn't even mean we've got to accept it. It just means we keep our mouths shut and let the individual express themselves anyway they want to. Unless its derogatory, of course.

Highluc · October 3, 2003

Hmmm! Isn't language funny? Most of the participants here would define "transgendered" as a man or woman wanting to change their sex to the opposite of what they are. A man wanting to become a woman, for example.

What you describe is "transsexualism" or the most extreme form of gender dysphoria.

Different professional literature uses transgendered in two different ways, one uses it to encompass all the variations of gender dysphoria, the other (more recent) definition uses it for people that are really in the middle of the scale and feel they don't belong to either (society created stereotype) gender but like to mix advantages and forms of both.

During the last years the medical world start recognising the desires of these people are genuine and in some countries (like Belgium) only during the last few years such people can get help and medical treatment like for instance moderate feminine hormones sufficient to feel better, get some breast development, but still maintaining their full masculine reproductive capabilities and equipment. Other men just prefer to get rid of their testes (and associated testosterone production) while some women prefer to et rid of their breasts, all this without pursuing further sex changes and maintaining a life in the born gender or a bit more androgynous.

There ain't no two persons the same on this world and we happily slowly get recognition by society of different (deviant?) forms of living. I'm sure there are millions of men on this planet who would love to "also" have a pair of breasts. Because all this is serious matter some standards of care (SOC's) have been established and internationally recognised and practiced. Irrelevant of what you want, all start with a specialized psychiatric evaluation (of about a year), not to cure you, not to declare you crazy, but to help you discover yourself and escort you through the inevitable difficult phases of life. With society becoming more tolerant and the mass of information available on the internet things are moving fast. In a near future, people will finally be able to be themselves instead of having to conform to a single standard (ie: coat and tie) to make in in life.

Enough said on this subject. Anybody who wants to talk more or wants reliable references on books or internet available material can pm me.

Dr. Shoe · October 3, 2003

Wrong: In the specialised literature the term transgendered often refers to a wide scala of gender dysphoria ranging from mild cross dressing to full transsexualism. In other cases the term is used specifically to define people happy with their born gender (and equipment) but desiring some adaptation of their body with a or certain parts usually found on the other gender. With what I read so far, heeled shoes, skirts, breast envy, this subject definitely falls into either category and as such has to be labeled transgender. This is nothing to be ashamed off, because it already has been proven it is independant about somebodies will or education, it just happens in one form of another in roughly one in 12000 persons (male to female and 1/30000 FtoM). Being a TG myself I've been reading a lot about the subject and over the years have been sliding along that wide scala lately.
Dr Shoe, you might be an expert on shoes, but there is a very approriate saying in Flamish: "schoenmaker blijf bij je leest", which traduces as "cobbler, stay with your last", or in clear terms: if you are not really familiar with a subject, leave it to the specialists.

I have never claimed to be an expert on the subject of transexualism, I was just expressing an opinion based on a similar personal experience- I never considered myself to be gender dyshoric and I doubt whether Gothikaheels feels as if he is transgendered either (I don't know he never said).

I have seen a couple of TV programs which have featured men with implants. One was a guy who lives in Blackpool who is a transvestite but whilst dressed as a man proudly shows off his chest. Another was an ordinary guy in the US who had the implants for losing a bet but decided to keep them because they were so much fun!

I have always said, that these experts give out all sorts of theories and definitions to A: Sell books, B: Sell seats at seminars and C: Keep themselves in business.

"Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus"? Crap! We all come from earth we should just deal with it!

genebujold · October 9, 2003

Wow! What a can of worms!

Where to start?

First, Gothikaheels - I feel your pain, though not to the same extent or in the same way. I enjoy wearing heels, but for many years it "just wasn't done."

Same goes for what you'd like to do - it's definately different, yet you feel compelled to do it.

Second, don't "wait a couple of years." I'm not saying get implants next weekend. What I am saying is seek professional help now. There are inexpensive things you can do right now (that are 100% "reversible") that may help you to achieve your goal later without committing you to an irreversible course of action. Also, your desire to have twice the DD size with no other gender modification (other than your love for wearing heels) is itself cause for some concern. Gender-sensitive professionals are fully aware of the wide range of acceptable transgenderism yet are also aware that some personal drives may stem from other reasons.

This is why transexuals must live as females for one (usually two) years before they're allowed to have gender reassignment surgury. They also are required to go through gender therapy to validate that their desire is not a result of some other issue. It would be a terrible thing to go through irreversible surgury only to find out later on that didn't solve the problem!

Here's a great site to get you started: http://www.crissywild.com/

Seek help now. Seek therapy. At the very least they might prescribe an anti-androgyn + progesterone therapy which will retard your masculinization while maintaining bone density and with few feminization effects that will allow you to persue your dream later with better results while going through therapy to ensure that's really the right course of action for you. If having an FF chest is really at the root core of your being, you'll have to go through therapy, anyway before a surgeon will touch you. But you might also discover a more palpable route to self-discovery that doesn't involve such drastic changes, and is far more rewarding to you in the long run.

Good luck to you.

genebujold · October 9, 2003

I noticed there seems to be some confusion as to the accepted meaning of a number of terms regarding genderisms.

Before anyone does anything else, take this test: http://test3.thespark.com/gendertest/

Be honest!

By the way, I scored pretty much smack in the middle of both, though the test thought I was a woman... So, I probably think a lot more like a woman than most guys, but I also think more like a guy than most women. Probably why I believe that people should be allowed to wear whatever they want to wear yet, other than fairly gender-neutral heels and an occasional skirt, I wear predominantly men's clothing.

Back to gender issues...

Here's perhaps the most complete (and in my humble opinion, accurate) glossary of transgender terms: http://www.crissywild.com/glossary.html

For example, I consider myself to be "transgendered," but not "transexual." I'm "bigendered" and a "crossdresser," but I am by no means a "drag queen" or "gay," nor do I ever try to "pass." I do not act effeminate, though I don't act like a knuckle-dragging gorilla, either (no offense intended, anyone, if the last hit too close to home!)

Scroll through the definitions yourselves for some interesting degrees of enlightenment!

Ciao!

Jay1 · October 9, 2003

Hi Genebujold Your comments are very well thought out and wonderfully articulated, a joy to read! By the way, i took the test and statistically-speaking, I am DEFINITELY a chick! 86%!! It's kinda cool in a way although I am a guy, I think like a girl! Most of my best friends are female and I admire them a heck of a lot so I'm quite happy with that result in a way! Best Wishes Jay

genebujold · October 10, 2003

Hi, Jay1 - thank you for your kind words.

I've taken it three times and score pretty close to the middle, but slightly into the womens' side. I think that fits, given the fact that I am a guy, feel like a guy, like being a guy, but also enjoy wearing clothing that crosses a few of more conservative boundaries (at least here in the US). My SO took it, and she scored a bit more into the womens' side than I did. She was actually concerned that she didn't score more into the womens' area! I assured her she was well within the normal range for women.

The Spark (http://www.thespark.com) has some other neat tests, as well.

Highluc · October 10, 2003

Another excellent website full of information and links about transgenderism is the one from Lynn on http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

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