Do you know how lucky you are??

[dheel]

This is a question for the ladies. I'm a guy who likes to wear women's shoes, and I just recently ventured out in heels for the first time a couple weeks ago, and again for the 2nd time tonight. You can read about it here if you're interested:

http://www.hhplace.org/hhboard/viewtopic.php?t=1801

But my question for the girls is this: Do you realize how lucky you are to be a girl, and to be able to wear whatever you want? It is incredibly frustrating to me that I have this interest in heels, but that I am not "allowed" by society to wear them without being some kind of "freak". In the topic linked above, I mentioned that my female friend G is fine with my interest in heels, but she really doesn't understand why I want to wear them. She doesn't even like heels. I just want to know if any of you girls can appreciate my frustration. Can you understand what a curse it is to want to dress in a way that society considers unacceptable? Can you understand the attraction and excitement that a guy can have towards women's shoes? Is it a thrill for you to wear high heels? Do you understand that that thrill is something special that men are not "supposed" to have? Do you understand how a forbidden pleasure like this can drive a guy crazy?? Do you know how lucky you are??

[Heelfan]

Hello Dheel! You will find a lot of us heel-wearing guys sympathising with your point, and thoughts of 'How lucky girls are' frequently flood through our minds. However, I am becoming increasingly interested in analising WHY we should conclude that society does not 'allow' us guys to wear high heels. In other words, IS that actually the case, or are we just imagining it and being much too self-concious? Is it just in our minds? Certainly there are those guys like Firefox who appear to prove the latter. His philosophy throughout comes across as "Don't give a toss about taboos (they are imaginary) and just go for it and wear the heels!" It certainly seems to work in his case (and others) because he unashamedly wears his heels (some pretty slim and often at least 4") whilst travelling around in his work and meeting clients, and socially, of course. And he gets on just fine! No-one calls the police or beats the crap out of him or even bats an eyelid. He is fully accepted at work and at the golf clubhouse that he frequents and by passers-by and everyone, and receives the odd compliment on his footwear, especially from the ladies! Similarly, I have been publicly wearing heels for 47 years (since I was 12) and have only ever had one unpleasant experience (drunken yobbos) in the whole time which did not go beyond some verbal abuse and was not sufficient to put me off in the least. To help us understand this matter, can you come up with any concrete evidence of any sort to support your assumption that society does not allow guys to wear high heels, or do you think, upon reflection, that your assumption might simply stem from fears/worries/anxieties in your own mind - ie an inbuilt instinct to avoid possible embarrassment? Please post an answer because the reason for guys' inhibitions is a question which is interesting me more and more. Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[Laurieheels]

Luck is for rabbits... Life is about tough choices, so just make one. If it is not against the law, then no one can throw you in jail or give you a fine. Just do what you like. The more you do it, the more confidence you'll have, the more you'll be able to do it and do it well. I can say that I am fortunate in life, to have relatively good health, and sure, my body can handle wearing heels. But my life is what I choose it to be, most of the time. All you have to do is make the choice.

[AZShoeNut]

Hmmmm, I have mixed feelings on this topic. I grew up in a very open minded house, had open-minded friends, and was very active in a very open-minded youth program. It is important to me to believe that we should do whatever makes us happy regardless of society perspective or perceived norms. I find the thought of wearing my heels in public both exciting and terrifying. Thoughts pass through my mind in favor and opposed to the idea. Thoughts in favor: 1) Underlying belief that we all should in fact do what makes us happy 2) I am curious as to how I would perform in heels for a distance greater than the 40 feet from bedroom to kitchen. 3) I would absolutely love to go shoe shopping with a gal that was into the whole thing. 4) I have not told one person about my interest in shoes that reacted poorly and some even responded with support. Now, of course, I have only chosen to share this information with people that I thought would react favorably. Thoughts opposed: 1) Don't want the neighbors to find out because if they don't approve I will have to see them everyday (I live in a condo complex) 2) I have overheard a conversation among three women that I used to work with about when one of them saw a guy wearing 4-inch pumps and about how unusual it was. It was even suggested that people like that are at root of many of societies problems. 3) I work for a "good-ol-boy". This type of person is exceptionally prejudiced and I believe that my work life would be a lot less pleasant if it were to get back to them that I participate in such an activity. I run into people from work fairly frequently 4) The movie "Waterboy" depicts that men wear high heels as the product of some sort of emotional shock. I recognize that it is just a movie and that I am assigning the scene that value but I would like to see another interpretation of it. 5) I live in a city that is run by and mostly populated by a very closed minded religious organization that openly opposes such behavior. AZShoeNut

[Heelfan]

Suggestion: maybe just for a day in the first place, forget all those worries and anxieties, and treat yourself to an enjoyable few hours of street-heeling. Believe me, it'll give you a great buzz and the world won't come crashing down on you! It doesn't have to be in front of the neighbours or your employer. Change in the middle of town, and in my experience the best place to start is by walking through a busy bustling shopping mall. You'll never look back! Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[dheel]

However, I am becoming increasingly interested in analising WHY we should conclude that society does not 'allow' us guys to wear high heels. In other words, IS that actually the case, or are we just imagining it and being much too self-concious? Is it just in our minds?

...

To help us understand this matter, can you come up with any concrete evidence of any sort to support your assumption that society does not allow guys to wear high heels, or do you think, upon reflection, that your assumption might simply stem from fears/worries/anxieties in your own mind - ie an inbuilt instinct to avoid possible embarrassment?

Please post an answer because the reason for guys' inhibitions is a question which is interesting me more and more.

It's an excellent question. I'm sure it is mostly in my mind - I'm sure most people don't notice or care what anyone else is wearing or doing. And even if they do, why do I care what they think? In general, I think most people are idiots, and I never care what other people think. For example, I know what kind of music I like, and I don't care what's popular or not. I don't believe in god, and I don't care if 99.9% of the world does. I think rationally, I trust my own judgement, and I come to my own conclusions. I always listen to rational arguments, but I'm not persuaded by peer pressure or tradition or the majority. So why should I care if someone has a problem with my shoes? It doesn't make sense. So I think you're right - most of it comes from being self-conscious and afraid.

But when I say wearing heels is not "allowed" by society, I mean it is considered abnormal behavior. If I went into work tomorrow wearing women's clothes, people would ask questions and be puzzled and stare - it's just not normal, accepted behavior - it would require an explanation. But if a woman wears the same outfit, no explanation is required, because it is normal, accepted behavior. That's what I mean when I say women are lucky to be women.

Certainly it is "allowed" in the sense that it is not against the law, and nobody will force me to change clothes. But it is not "allowed" in the sense that I can't do it without drawing attention or causing people to ask questions.

As for concrete evidence, in any tv show or movie that has a scene where a guy wears women's clothes or shoes - he is usually forced to do it as a form of humiliation or punishment, and it is meant to be funny to the audience. And it only works as humilation for a guy or comedy for an audience, because it is generally accepted that "guys aren't supposed to wear women's clothes." The audience wouldn't laugh if it was accepted behavior. A woman wearing pants on tv has never been intended to get a laugh. A man wearing a dress on tv is considered comedic gold.

Other concrete evidence - most people in this country are religious in some way, and most religious people don't consider it acceptable behavior - certainly conservative Christians don't.

So if you consider "society" to be composed of the general mass-audience of popular tv and movies, and/or religious people, then you could say it is not accepted by society, However, it is important to note that "society" does not really exist! "Society" is not an entity with opinions and judgements. Society is simply a group of individuals, who each have their own opinions and make their own judgements (or mimic the opinions and judgements of others). So to say it's not accepted by "society" is really not true, because "society" can not accept or reject anything. Only individuals can. It would be more accurate to say, the majority of the population considers it unacceptable - and I think you could prove that if you wanted to. But does it matter what the majority thinks? It shouldn't, not in any free country.

So I guess we should not be inhibited by the idea that "society doesn't allow men to wear heels" - because that is truly an imaginary idea. But we can be inhibited by the idea that "a lot of people out there could react negatively to it", or "it is more than likely that this will draw unwanted attention".

And maybe that's the key - the attention from other people. If you are an extrovert, and attention doesn't bother you - you will have no problem wearing heels in public, and you won't understand the idea that "society doesn't allow me to do this". But if you are an introvert - the attention of other people, especially strangers, makes you very uncomfortable and is to be avoided at all costs - so you will definitely feel like you are not "allowed" to dress the way you want. The extrovert says, "Of course I'm allowed - there's no law against it!" The introvert says, "Of course it's not allowed - people would notice me!"

I apologize for such a long, convoluted answer - but maybe it will spark some discussion.

[Firefox]

If I went into work tomorrow wearing women's clothes, people would ask questions and be puzzled and stare - it's just not normal, accepted behavior - it would require an explanation.

Indeed that might happen. But believe it or not, wearing heels is a different matter. So long as you choose appropriate shoes for the outfit which usually means boots with trousers and dress as a guy in other respects, you may attract a little initial attention, but it will be accepted almost instantly. The heels may even be quite high or thin if you like.

The point is you are not trying to present yourself as something you are not. TV behaviour is not socially acceptable because it is perceived as disrupting the free mating patterns within society whereas wearing heels as man is socially acceptable because there's no question of that.

So anyone who says girls are "lucky" to wear heels is wrong. Study what Laurie says. The rabbits need the luck. All you need is self confidence and a little initial courage.

[PJ]

Luck is for rabbits...

Are you referring to good luck or bad luck? One of the symbols we use to represent good luck is the rabbit's foot. Unfortunately, it was not good luck for the rabbit.

....Life is about tough choices, so just make one. If it is not against the law, then no one can throw you in jail or give you a fine. Just do what you like. The more you do it, the more confidence you'll have, the more you'll be able to do it and do it well.

Most of the choices we make have consequences, both good and bad. Because we are social creatures, peer acceptance is important to most of us. Not everyone has the confidence to make a decision and be prepared to stand up to ridicule Considering how others will react does influence us when we are presented with making choices.

[CHARLI04]

i am new here, but i have simalar interests. one major problem, though, i am married. i have not told my wife. if she ever found out i don't know what she will do. probably leave me.

[dimpantyhose]

i am new here, but i have simalar interests. one major problem, though, i am married. i have not told my wife. if she ever found out i don't know what she will do. probably leave me.

Your wife loves you, so don't worry. But, if you don't talk about your interest in high heels, them later, it can cause trouble and it could be worsen. I suggest to you to open a conversation about high heels and try to get your answers in her reply. If she open-minded, try to talk about your interest and...maybe your high heels fetish.

[onyourtoes]

I suspect if men wearing heels was the normal state of affairs I wouldn't enjoy my "hobby" half as much as I do.

My attraction to heels is as much forbidden fruit as it is heels. After you've done it a couple times, walking on heels isn't much of a challenge -- but wearing heels in public in otherwise male clothing is still a big deal.

As I age, now in my 50's, I find my feet, legs, and back are not as up to the task of all day heel wearing as they used to be. Most especially I used to be happy to find shoes in size 10 and wear them all day. My feet just won't compress like they used to -- I've got to find 11 and 12. Luckily most styles can be found fairly easily in size 11 at least. When I started on this high adventure at age 14 many shoe stores only carried up to size 9.

I'm not talking about the age thing to moan my feet can't take as much abuse as they used to. I'm just pointing out most of my all day shoes are low or flat heels, but they are still women's styles. I get as much of a buzz out of wearing my flat Mary Janes as I used to get wearing 5 inch heel boots.

When I was in my twenties there were heels and platforms for men in the 1970's. They were never really very popular. Most of the styles were just plain hideous to my eyes. They were beyond clumsy looking. So even then, I mostly bought women's shoes. Perhaps the acceptance bar was a little lower -- at least I felt less out of place then, but most men while curious, still didn't wear them. Remember Traffic's The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys. Then like now, men were terrified of being mistaken for gay.

So what am I saying? I'm saying to me, I think I get more enjoyment out of wearing heels than I would if I was female.

[nicjasno]

Women do not have to be looked strange upon when wearing heels. They do it naturally, without second thought. Men have to cope with the world looking at them. I know, it's a "mind " thing, you'll say. It is, but at the same time it isn't. A woman never has to be in fear of being rejected by ppl because she's wearing heels, or being worried that her partner won't accept it. No matter the self confidence. Wearing heels as a man is and prolly never be the same thing as wearing them as a woman.

[Firefox]

That's correct nicjasno. Men are different to women in many respects so wearing them isn't the same. Wearing them as woman is different to wearing them as a guy. Wearing them and being a guy is different to wearing them as a TV. For example I think a more solid style is appropriate to guys and the possibilities to play around or flirt with them are more limited. I'm not saying you can't or you shouldn't, but if you want to do it with social acceptance (which IS possible), then it's much easier to do it in a certain way.

[WarrenB]

I suspect if men wearing heels was the normal state of affairs I wouldn't enjoy my "hobby" half as much as I do.

My attraction to heels is as much forbidden fruit as it is heels. After you've done it a couple times, walking on heels isn't much of a challenge -- but wearing heels in public in otherwise male clothing is still a big deal.

As I age, now in my 50's, I find my feet, legs, and back are not as up to the task of all day heel wearing as they used to be. Most especially I used to be happy to find shoes in size 10 and wear them all day. My feet just won't compress like they used to -- I've got to find 11 and 12. Luckily most styles can be found fairly easily in size 11 at least. When I started on this high adventure at age 14 many shoe stores only carried up to size 9.

I'm not talking about the age thing to moan my feet can't take as much abuse as they used to. I'm just pointing out most of my all day shoes are low or flat heels, but they are still women's styles. I get as much of a buzz out of wearing my flat Mary Janes as I used to get wearing 5 inch heel boots.

When I was in my twenties there were heels and platforms for men in the 1970's. They were never really very popular. Most of the styles were just plain hideous to my eyes. They were beyond clumsy looking. So even then, I mostly bought women's shoes. Perhaps the acceptance bar was a little lower -- at least I felt less out of place then, but most men while curious, still didn't wear them. Remember Traffic's The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys. Then like now, men were terrified of being mistaken for gay.

So what am I saying? I'm saying to me, I think I get more enjoyment out of wearing heels than I would if I was female.

Same here Onnyour. That was well written.

[High Surprise]

Being fortunate enough to be a woman, I hear what you see and I am sympahetic towards you men. I should tell you that being a woman, I still love the feeling of wearing my heels. I can say that not a day goes past whrn I don't wear my heels and feel great towering up high with confidence and sexiness (OK so my feet hurt a little at the end of the day but that's one of the prices you pay for all the other benefits ).

I suspect if men wearing heels was the normal state of affairs I wouldn't enjoy my "hobby" half as much as I do.

My attraction to heels is as much forbidden fruit as it is heels. After you've done it a couple times, walking on heels isn't much of a challenge -- but wearing heels in public in otherwise male clothing is still a big deal.

As I age, now in my 50's, I find my feet, legs, and back are not as up to the task of all day heel wearing as they used to be. Most especially I used to be happy to find shoes in size 10 and wear them all day. My feet just won't compress like they used to -- I've got to find 11 and 12. Luckily most styles can be found fairly easily in size 11 at least. When I started on this high adventure at age 14 many shoe stores only carried up to size 9.

I'm not talking about the age thing to moan my feet can't take as much abuse as they used to. I'm just pointing out most of my all day shoes are low or flat heels, but they are still women's styles. I get as much of a buzz out of wearing my flat Mary Janes as I used to get wearing 5 inch heel boots.

When I was in my twenties there were heels and platforms for men in the 1970's. They were never really very popular. Most of the styles were just plain hideous to my eyes. They were beyond clumsy looking. So even then, I mostly bought women's shoes. Perhaps the acceptance bar was a little lower -- at least I felt less out of place then, but most men while curious, still didn't wear them. Remember Traffic's The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys. Then like now, men were terrified of being mistaken for gay.

So what am I saying? I'm saying to me, I think I get more enjoyment out of wearing heels than I would if I was female.

[Heelfan]

- "Being fortunate enough to be a woman, I hear what you see and I am sympahetic towards you men"

Hello High Surprise! I've enjoyed all your postings (particularly re. the young Oriental girl adrift in ultra-heels in Barnet), but you've now got me totally confused! Ever since your 'Let's Get to Know Each Other!' posting where you entered yourself as 'Male', I've pictured you as such when reading your many contributions, but now I find you above posting as a woman! Have I missed some momentous event somewhere along the line?

Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[stellah]

I agree with Onyourtoes - forbidden fruit tastes good... If highheels were a men's item as well (it was centuries ago before women's) it wouldn't probably excite us so much. But now I feel excellent to walk in my boots designed for women (designer's idea?) and being 3-5 inches taller

[Alex]

I know I'd still wear them if they were also a guy thing to do(as long as they make them in my size)

[zathrus69]

I agree with Onyourtoes - forbidden fruit tastes good... If highheels were a men's item as well (it was centuries ago before women's) it wouldn't probably excite us so much.

I have been wondering this week what the world would be like if women wore high heels by default and flat shoes were worn only by a small minority. It would probably mean that this forum would be called the "flat shoe meeting place" and we'd be getting all excited about the latest flip-flop from "La Piazza" and wondering if we dare step out in a pair of womens sandals with a 0.1cm heel

Most fetishes are about a fixation on something out of the ordinary. If we make the extraordinary ordinary then the fetish changes accordingly. There is some wiring in my brain that says "high heels good, flat shoes bad" because the world I live in now is dominated by flat shoes (heels come and go but they never become the default daytime wear for a large percentage of women). If I were born into a different world, where women wore heels constantly, day and night, that wiring would probably be "flat shoes good, high heels bad".

Just another Zathrus 2p moment :-)

[Carolyn]

I think I said this in another thread but why don't the men just wear what heels they want within reason. There's no law against it. I don't think girls are "lucky" in that sense. Perhaps they are braver to make a larger range of fashions their own. Most men are too worried about being called gay or trying to out-macho their mates. So men have only got themselves, or at least their gender to blame in this respect. The masters of their own fate you might say. ~Caz

[Dr. Shoe]

After reading all the above posts I came to these conclusions: 1. Men do not wear heels because they are anxious about what people they know will think. This is not true in my case as it is my wife who bothers about what people think. 2. There is a lot of "propaganda" (for want of a better word) that constantly reinforces the idea that wearing any item(s) of female apparel is ridiculous or comical. Eddie Izzard opposes this view by looking good in the clothes and (more commonly) his heels and is admired for his dress sense. This is countered by the fact that he is a comedian and so is therefore taken less seriosly than some other celebs might be, but his humour does not revolve around his clothing unlike "lily Savage". 3. The vast majority of the barriers that prevent us from wearing (or doing) precisely what we want are in our minds. This is because we have been conditioned to accept the conventions of society almost from the second we were born. How many boys are encouraged to play with dolls? 4. Aside from what people think, we worry a great deal about being attacked or abused for our sartorial choices.

[Firefox]

Carolyn and Dr Shoe have got it spot on. Men have got themsleves to blame. There's no "luck" involved; it's just in the mind. If a few more men got out there and did it, they might realise how easy it is. My philosophy is not to sit around moaning about my luck, but to change things by actions.

[new_look]

I have read everything here, and some very good points from all. I can appreciate both sides of the arguments, that women ARE lucky but men should just do it etc. I think that as fox says the only thing we can do about it is change it via actions and just not been afraid of a few giggles and stares. I feel confident enough to go out now away from say my friends and my family and the feeling is out of this world. But i do agree that it would be nice to feel more normal like most women treat it. Most girls i speak to about it do it to look good and they hate the heels cos they hust and they cant walk in them etc. If only we had the same worries instead of thinking who is staring or laughing about you daz