Women cutting off toes and toes bending in for pointed toe s

[Firefox]

I think sandles and mules can present a classy image too, and it's nice to be cooler in summer although we don't get much summer in England.

Also, I don't think highly of anyone who permanantly mutilates their body in the name of fashion, in such a way as to cause physical disfunction, or cause themsleves problems later in life. That would apply to any woman or a man who did it. Gender is not relavent.

I have to take issue with you Susan and say I don't perceive any general disrespect towards women on these forums. So, just relax and have fun. No one is out to get you or target you or disrespect you. Does any one else feel there is a "general feeling of disrespect" towards women here?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firefox on 2002-04-06 14:15 ]</font>

[IHeels]

I haven't noticed it and I'm a women who does her share of light hearted teasing both here and in RL. Inga

[Jeff]

I don't think there has ever been any hostility towards women from men on this board and if it's up to me (and it is.. ) this will never happen. This is the same for the other way around btw. Over 6300 posts in less than four months without a single conflict. This is how it is and how it should be. We are all friends here and I hope we can be for a long time. _________________ Greetz, Jeff --- "She's going shopping, shopping for shoe-oe-oe-oes She wants them in magenta and Caribbean blue-ue-ue-ue" - Imelda, Mark Knopfler <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jeff on 2002-04-06 20:43 ]</font>

[terayon]

except for pumps i dont like pointed toe shoes/boots...so if theres a reason to encourage people to not wear these ugly things, i say good riddens to the whole style! i much prefer a round toe boot...like i said, pumps with pointed toes look good, so long as its not SUPER pointed...but i think pointy boots are the definition of ugly (just my opinion though)

[Laurieheels]

If what we are saying here is disrespectful to women, then the real issue is about over sensitivity. This is not about being crticial and seeing something ad disgusting, this is our respect for the human body shining through. Susan, when you say you wear short toed pointy shoes, this just reaffirms the idea of this topic. We don't think women should change their bodies in a drastic way in order to wear a certain style of shoe, and you prove that it is not a requirement. I am not offended by anything on this board, and everyone is being good here. If anything, you and what you have been through prove that there is no need to modify a foot to wear shoes. At the risk of being told I made you feel unwelcome, which I am not doing by the way, I have to say, you need to turn down your sensitivity level. No one here is disrespecting women, in fact, at times, it is a real celebration! We are happy that you share your opinion, but we will always keep in mind that it is your opinion. Sometimes it doesn't come across that way. I like strappy sandals, you don't, well that's just a difference then. It makes us unique and more interesting.

[Charlie]

Yep, there is one thing we all need to be reminded of every now and then, and that is there is no right or wrong style of shoe or boot. Only opinions of each. That's why I know I'm right when I state that platform boots with a platform under 1" are simply the best boot style! Charlie

[Debbie(HK)]

I can't say that I find anyone particularly disrespectful Firefox, it's supposed to be a fun place and it's doing well so far. Debbie

[Susan (the original)]

Hello Laurieheels - Thank you for the kind response and I agree with you on most of the things. My taking exception to your comment about the sandals wasn't adversarial. I placed a smiley face with it hoping to emphasize that. You like sandals, I don't, no problem there. Contrary to much that has been said about me I have no problem with difference of opinion as long as that's what it is, an opinion about an "option" or personal "preference". When I say my feet and ankles are stuck in a nearly vertical high heel position including my toes remaining bent, that's a "fact" not an opinion so there's no opening for opinion on that "fact". It is what it is. Now, if someone has an opinion, such as Firefox, that what's happened to my feet is not wise, or not necessary, or unreasonable, that's OK with me and I do respect him and his right to his opinion. He can't though, have an opinion about the factual state of my feet, he hasn't seen them, my motion, or anything else so he just doesn't know. I also do believe he would never understand the depth of emotion and personal value my situation holds for me. It's that lack of understanding that tarnishes any opinion, but honestly that's OK too. I hope I'm making myself clear here, all I'm trying to do is explain through example the realities of the process here It's not meant to jump on Firefox, he's not guilty. I went completely back through this topic which is about women, pointed toe shoes (small or tight), disfigured women's feet, and the removal of toes. Descriptions, seemingly agreeable to everyone, covering all four issues included brainless, moron, stupid, disgusting (the assumed destruction caused by a small short pointed toe shoe), and a few others that don't come to mind right now. Absolutely no where throughout the text of the topic does anyone offer a positive comment about these women or approval of or suggestion of an alternative possibility associated with the short pointed toe style. I stepped in, disagreed, expressed an alternative "opinion", personal experience of fact, and look what happened. To add insult to injury I'm told what I read isn't there. The above certainly supports my comment about treatment of women on these boards. If I'm wrong I'm open for someone to show me, don't just tell me, please show me. If the descriptions brainless, moron, stupid, and disgusting were used in a discussion about men wearing high heels it would cause an international crisis. I'm not being facetious, the furor here would be catistrophic and the descriptions deleted for being inflamatory. Back to the shoes! Think about it, with the popularity of sharply pointed toe high heels, sharply pointed toe dress flats, and even pointed toe gym shoes during the late 50's and early 60's, had they caused all that assumed horrible damage to women's feet we would have an entire generation of cripled women, and that just isn't the case. Certainly a negligible percentage of women probably did some foolish things, certainly ill fitting and poorly made shoes can cause significant problems. But to condemn an entire class of women who have a unique manner or preferred style in the very short pointed toe high heel is, well!! This is why I was frustrated with the elimination of the "GAL'S" section as it was intended. Discussions deeply feminine to some of us are likely to become riddled to the point of becoming meaningless which in the end makes even trying useless, but oooh welll. I dearly hope this helps explain my reaction and interpretation of what I read in the text of this topic. I made the effort because I care, I want to be understood, and I do believe the welcome mat is out for everyone. Brad, you're correct, the total lifestyle I enjoy is vastly different than what I see here. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just different. Laurieheels, Charlie, Inga, Firefox, thank you for the thoughts. Susan

[Laurieheels]

Hey now, I am sure I posted something that pertained to the topic, about the origin of this myth from a Ciderella Pantomime... I am the diplomat, AND the insane girl who lives down the street. And a part time super hero-ine. Your opinions are great, and as for sensitivity, you are who you are. Is it a right to be too sensitive? It's your right to be who you are. Sometimes, we have to hide a few things about ourselves in an effort to be true to the point we are making. Sure it isn't right, but this is internet, this is text, it has to happen from time to time. It's more interesting to hold something back, because it creates mystery, and that is a wonderful thing. I am sure no one intended to create a negative impression, they were just concerned about something they felt MIGHT be bad. However the conversation went after that only included opinions, maybe even ones that were written in haste. Whatever emotions they trigger are true for you, so do express them. Just one thing to consider. No one can understand your perspective, as your life has been unique as you present it, and not one of us here have gone through that. Perhaps some here type from their own perspectives and need more sensitivity. Yet we all have to say what we will, and learn to live with it. We're all individuals. Not one of us can ever understand any other person here with 100 percent accuracy and empathy. We all have to learn to get along in our community, and operate on the understanding that everything is a perception. For each one of us, the perception is different. And Susan, remind me to bring up the concept of a precis one day. I hope I have the correct spelling. I think you and I will both need to use the technique.

[Debbie(HK)]

Hiya Laurie - don't know how you manage to find the time to write so much Debbie

[Laurieheels]

I type fast, Debbie, I type fast. And in all honest, I wish I didn't make the time to type as much, some things end up neglected because of it. In the end, I like to write. This is a curse as much as a blessing.

[Ben(Canada)]

Dear Susan Have you ever been at a dinner party. Someone gets you going on a topic. Before you know it, you are spouting all kinds of criticism towards something. You think that it is the strangers you don't know at the table that think differently, so that is sort of OK. After awhile you decide it might be a good idea to check what your friend you came with is thinking. That is when you find you have criticized something that your friend values quite a lot. It doesn't change how you think, but it makes you red faced thinking you said it so strongly right in front of this person. Next time you resolve you will state your opinions in groups that agree with you more. When talking privately with people it is possible to sound out their stand on issues before jumping on a soapbox, but is not so possible on the Internet forums. In a way open talking on Internet forums toughens us up. Maybe this is good because we learn to accept things we don't agree with. We open ourselves up to issues we would have otherwise brushed off. Susan, I know who you are for sure. I have seen your name in many articles and have read your stories with great interest. I feel like you were that friend sitting next to me at the dinner table. You said "Ben, it's unfortunate you and others here have the poor perception of women like me." Now you have made me red in the face. I didn't know I was talking directly at you. Ouch. But it doesn't change how I think on the issue of pointed toe shoes. If it makes you feel better, I have lot's of friends that do things that I don't agree with. I don't write off people that do things I don't agree with. It's a big world and we have lot's of different ideas. That said, I will clarify why I said what I said about pointed toe shoes. I feel that many women and even men are wearing pointed toe shoes because they look stylish to other people. Of course some people are wearing them because they look nice to themselves. But in case someone thinks they are wearing them for me they are mistaken. So yes, I would like to encourage people to wear rounded toe shoes because I personally like to see people's toes that are straight. I think it is hard to avoid some foot reforming with any pointed toe shoe. It is always a temptation for people to buy shoes that are short with this kind of shoe. So I said something. For me I am glad the subject was raised in this forum, because it made me look hard at the issues. Because of this I have become attracted to people wearing rounded toe shoes. I think some of these look very attractive in low and high heels alike. It has formalized my likes. I don't think of all styles somewhat changing the body shape slightly in the same way. I especially like it if women poke holes in their ears and wear earnings for example. But I don't see that it changes the basic body shape or function substantially. But these are my likes and dislikes. Ben Wiens

[phuonginheels]

I would never cut of a toe to fit in a shoe. I like to wear sandals and mules too much. I really can't see why you can't solve a shoe fitting problem any other way, you can always buy half size too big and stuff a bit. for me fortunately i can easily even fit in any superpointed pump. I have very narrow feet, so i guess i'm blessed. But still very simply, don't wear the shoe if the shoe doesn't fit.

[Susan (the original)]

Hello Ben - I believe you have missed my point. While the information in the early text of this topic isn't all inaccurate it is a long way from complete and correct. Your opinions, preferences, likes, dislikes are yours, I have no wish to alter that. If you don't like pointed toe shoes for whatever reason, that's certainly OK with me. My only contention was the limited views given. For lack of a better explanation I might ask that you re-read my two previous posts on this topic. Obviously you weren't talking directly to me in your post but I do fit the criteria, I'm a woman who wears the very short very pointed toe high heels. From the comments "you" made, if you were to see me wearing my heels you would immediately assume my feet have been destroyed and my toes are disfigured. That is in reality a very false assumption which can't be made in all cases with all women. Susan

[Laurieheels]

Good point, Susan. For me, short pointed toes are bad because I have long toes, so I wear longer points when I can. But your feet are certainly going to be different, and if you have shorter toes, why the heck would a short pointed shoe give you trouble? We're unique in personality, but also in physicality.

[Ben(Canada)]

Susan wrote: I believe you have missed my point. While the information in the early text of this topic isn't all inaccurate it is a long way from complete and correct. From the comments "you" made, if you were to see me wearing my heels you would immediately assume my feet have been destroyed and my toes are disfigured. That is in reality a very false assumption which can't be made in all cases with all women. Ben reply I did read your earlier posts carefully. I do agree with you that pointed toe shoes don't always result in the person's foot being changed. What I said earlier was that "I think it is hard to avoid some foot reforming with any pointed toe shoe. It is always a temptation for people to buy shoes that are short with this kind of shoe." I think I am correct in saying that if a person wears pointed toe shoes that are so short that the toes need to bend inwards, that over time the toes will become permanently bent inwards. So I would not want to encourage anyone to wear pointed toe shoes given the very great temptation of buying shoes that bend the toes inward. Yes I think a lot of women's toes are bent inwards from wearing pointed toe shoes. But even here, each to their own. Natives in Africa used to manipulate their bodies in all kinds of ways. Who is to say this is wrong. But as some have pointed out in this thread, many people wear sandles and go barefoot. In this case I think a foot that has nice straight toes looks best to most people. I watched a movie recently where the guy was looking for a female mate. Interestingly there were all kinds of high heel wearing women in the movie. This guy would try and sneak a peek at each date's feet and if the toes were bent inwards, that was an automatic rejection. So I don't think I am the only person that values straight toes on a woman. And yes I think that wearing pointed toe shoes is sort of like playing with fire.

[eto1999]

I on the other hand prefer bent toes - nicely hammered are my favorites and even (!) a slight bunion. Eto P.S: Susan - can you post a picture of your feet ?

[Charlie]

I don't know here......I must be doing something wrong.......I only seem to have jurisdiction over my own feet. Oh well, that's for the better as my own feet are enough work without worrying about what others do with there feet. Charlie

[Debbie(HK)]

Can't believe that people have so much to say about this subject!

[IHeels]

Hiya Deb, Agree, I to am amazed as to how people can find inspiration for ideas from this topic. My messages to are also fairly short and sweet, unlike Lozza's (Lauries). Inga

[Laurieheels]

HEY! No fair. Just because I type fast... My messages don't take too much time to write, but I have a lot to say! Still, I agree, I can't believe this topic has gone on so long. But then, I can get some posts in and boost my totals, so it can't be all bad...

[Debbie(HK)]

[Ruth Heel]

Hello Ben. I liked your post on the pointy toe heels. Personally I love the look of mary janes, but I have trouble wearing them. The pointy toe heels work best for me because I have very narrow feet and my big toe is quiet long. I get frustrated because I can't wear mary janes for very long at a time. I just wanted to let you know that every woman wearing pointy toe heels isen't necessarily damaging their feet.

[fastfreddy2]

I'm surprised so many seem to think removing (useless) body parts is practically offensive? Everyone here still got their appendix then?

I've read about women having ribs removed, silicon implanted. People have teeth screwed into their heads, many many many people have excess fat sucked from their bodies. All of this for the sake of 'appearance'.

We hear more and more about Botox 'parties'. Some women have even started having their own fat injected into their feet to allow the wearing of higher heels with less pain from longterm use. If you have a pierced ear, you've started on the road to body-modification. Tattoo? Ever worn a corset? Temporary modification, but did your internal organs suffer while wearing it?

Homo-Sapiens have been developing for something like 7-10 thousand years. Possibly for some of it, a very very very small percentage may have spent some time wearing shoes. An even smaller percentage may have experienced wearing high heels. The human skeletal structure hasn't developed to accommodate wearing 4" (or higher) heels. Everyone here prejudices their personal well being every time they put heels on. No-one here gives it a seconds thought.

Me, I don't see having toes removed as being a big deal.

I have a girl-friend who has had all her smaller toes broken twice, because they became curled. Can you imagine seeing your friends toes with what looks like stainless steel toothpicks protruding from them? Weird doesn't even start to explain it. Last year she had some lumps removed from inside the fleshy underneath of her feet, and some have grown back recently. She's currently looking for a second operation to remove the new lumps. At the moment, she can barely walk, her feet are so painful. [TBH I doubt any amount of operations will improve her walking prospects.]

Two nights ago, we looked through her shoe collection. Currently she struggles to wear 1" heels. She (still) has some size 5 Derbers with 4 1/2" heels she used to wear. (Often for me.) This is a girl who, until 2 or 3 years ago, was never out of heels. She was nearly in tears .....

I'm not proposing it would have made a difference, but if she had been offered an operation 30+ years ago that would have avoided all the pain she now endures, there is little doubt in my mind the offer would have been taken up.

The nails on my two large toes have sliced many of my socks over the years. They are so tough I only cut them when they have been softened by immersion in water (ie bath), and I have to use a sapphire file to shape them. Two weeks ago I realised my right (large) toenail has the potential to be 'ingrown', (assuming it isn't already). I'd happily have both nails removed tomorrow if offered. My feet are uncovered for 2 weeks of the year if I'm lucky. As I get older I know I will suffer with diseased nail-beds, and general foot discomfort. Why would I be reluctant to have pre-emptive treatment, especially while I'm young enough to make a faster recovery from surgery?

Like many here I don't think toe removal is a realistic solution. But I'm old enough to realise we should all respect the choices of others when it comes what they do with their own bodies.

....

[roniheels]

Removing toes for the sake of wearing a shoe does not make sense to me, I'm afraid. Like Ruth Heel, my feet are very narrow (which has made it really bad over the years buying men's shoes). I wear high heels with pointed toes and they are comfortable on me. Some of the previous posts have suggested that with the proper toe box, wearing high heels with pointed toes is a reality.Comfort over fashion makes sense to me. Then again, I'm old.

[amandahls]

Ewww, that is gross. I wear pointed heels and my toes aren't curled up that way. They may have a natural arc, but nowhere near the point where it's an ugly curly fries or anything like that. I think it's sexy to have a little bit of a curl, but not to that much. Then its just gross.

[roniheels]

It's not offensive. But it IS gross. It does not show any self respect. I will not endorse self mutilation.

And yes, I still have my appendix. It may not do anything, but there is nothing wrong with either.

And since when were toes useless?

I still have all of my toes and appendix, too.

[fastfreddy2]

And since when were toes useless?

We need a large toe to walk correctly. Other than that, the others serve no useful purpose at all.

.....