Laurie's Writing Thread - Discussion

[PJ]

Laurieheels; apparantly I don't know you as well as others know you around here. thanks for the explanation. see ...... I'm smiling

[JeffM]

Laurie Why dont you send some excerpts of your stories by email to people on this forum, ones you know you can trust and who wont pinch your ideas, to see what their reactions are to your writing style and theme. About 5 say. Yamyam sounds like a possible contender. And if you let every one know I am sure you would be swamped with volunteers. You'll never never know if you never never give it a go. Jeff

[Yamyam]

Yamyam sounds like a possible contender.

Do I?!? How so?

[Laurieheels]

Revival time? I have been writing lately, I've started a number of projects, so I have a variety to work on depending on the mood. Some have a heel focus to them, in many ways. Others do not. I will admit, though, that there is something very liberating about the ability to sit down, and let a story come to life through the keystrokes. I find it a thrill, and generally it is sad when I have to stop. When something comes up, it's a rush to get down that last idea, and for hours after that point, many ideas spring into my mind. Half will be forgotten, even as I try to record the others in some way. the end result - some good story ideas, some characters who actually have lives, some plans, and a lot of enjoyment. I suppose the one fear is that I need to push for a real job soon, and I will lose some of my writing time. After all, working on story ideas is not going to pay, and I have a certain distrust of the internet. I had written a much longer message, but then, who will read something so long when it is simply a nice but frazzled lady's ramblings? An idea, though. Is there something people would like me to write about? Any specific ideas for fiction? I can perhaps practice my craft on what people would like to see, and go from there. for the two people who may have read some of my work, unedited as it is, please feel free to share any feedback with the group, provided the secrets are not all revealed.

[Heelfan]

Yes Laurie, my advice is exactly the same as Ben's: You will get MUCH more pleasure and satisfaction out of your writing if you have a secure day-job income, and then you can write something whenever you WANT to and not because you HAVE to. I've seen this time and time again with creative and artisitc people - writers, painters, musicians etc. They are always MUCH happier (and also better at it) if they don't have to hack it out in sheer desperation! Whilst we're on to this topic, didn't you post the other day that you had just attended a successful job interview? Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[Bubba136]

The only criticism that counts is in the envelope from the publisher. Either a check or a rejection notice

[Laurieheels]

Bubba, that's very true, I agree with it. It would still be fun to have people say "I like this" or "I'd rather read about this". My style is something all my own, naturally, and it can be modified, but not changed. Now, for those saying have a day job, that I do, but it is a long day of training, and it takes a lot out of me. In this recent weather, drive times are close to an hour to get to work and home, and then it is make some dinner, wash up the dishes, try and relax, shower, get all comfy, and suddenly, after half an hour of checking messages and replying to a few e-mails, the bed does beckon. it is frustrating to get to writing! It will end up a part time job, and I am hoping both that job and the internet will allow for a few hours of writing every week. I am going to be writing some things for the net, and going to short stories. i figure selling a few smaller things for small amounts is a good way to develop a reputation of sorts. After all, big companies like to back winners, and being able to say "this and that magazine have featured stories..." shows that someone else was willing to take the chance. I think that I will ask for anything critical to be sent to my e-mail address, so I can have a proper, one on one discussion of it.

[Heelfan]

Congratulations on getting the new job Laurie! I must have missed out on the news that your interview was successful (unless you didn't announce that seccessful outcome to us) - Well done! Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[BobHH]

I was just reading the posts here and saw T-shirts mentioned back in August or thereabouts. How about Goddess Laurie T-shirts? You might sell a few of those!

[Bubba136]

Getting an agent would be helpful.

[Laurieheels]

Bubba, an agent is useless until I have something I feel is ready to be shopped around. Unless a literary agent is much like an agent for an actor, and will get me writing jobs by telling other people how great I am. I am not sure it works that way. So I'll sit back and wait for the right time to have an agent. Because it will be my hard work that gets the job, and the agent who makes sure I am not taken advantage of. At least, that's how I figure it... Oh, and as for T-shirts... ummm, yeah. Are guys going to wear a t-shirt out in public with a not thin blonde girl in heels, and have it say Laurie Goddess on it? It might not send the right message... My goal is to entertain, but not be on a t-shirt, well, not for the goddess thing, anyway.

[BadWriter]

Hi Laurie, I did get a chance to read what you posted of "Space Pirate." I can say that for as long as it was, it read very quickly. I thought the pacing was good. That is, when he was regaining conciousness the story moved slowly as it should. Then it picked up after Kat entered the room. That small amount got me hooked enough that I would like to read more. I think you are developing the caracters well. I didn't read the first story you referred to which also featured Kat. I couldn't tell at this point who was the good guy, who was the bad guy or even if they were both good. It could be that Kat really likes him but, for the moment, is really pissed that he drugged her a while back (a slight misunderstanding, my dear). I can't tell at this moment if they will end up being enemies or allies. I'd say I'm definitely looking forward to reading more. Are you taking any writing classes? I've never taken any but then I'm not serious about being a writer. That would seem to be a great way to hone your natural ability. It would seem that Ben is also willing to help. Anyway, at least one reader wants to see more. BW

[chris100575]

I'm no critic, but I enjoyed the sample you posted. IMO it's very well written, and I'd like to read more.

[Laurieheels]

I am not taking any writing classes, though I did in University, along with many classes where writing papers was the key to survival. I think characters are most important to a story, since they are the means of experience. if the people can be understood and seem real, then we can relate to them and enjoy the story that much more. Things happen to people, after all.

[JeffM]

Laurie you are perfectly correct. It wouldnt be much of a story if it didnt have characters, be it people or animals, in it. And it isnt much of a story if we cant get to know the characters. Knowing their personalities is what makes them interesting and knowing what they do is what makes the story interesting. Like most others here I cant wait for the next chapter (s) Jeff

[Stu]

I read your sample story, Laurie. As you demonstrated with your diaries, you have a way with words, and a good natural style that forms the foundation for good writing. One tip is to try to avoid extended periods where you're simply writing a dialogue -- it reads more like a script than literature, and editors hate that. I'm dabbling with fiction (no, nothing to do with heels) and have fallen into that trap myself. Writing may be fun, but it can also be a torturous way to make a living. I once saw a successful writer quoted as saying if a person should attempt to make a living as a writer only if they cannot do anything else. I can identify with that, as one can struggle for weeks on even a simple short story, only to find that it goes nowhere when you try to get it published. I started out as a newspaper reporter in my 20s and now, for lack of a better term, I'm in what can be described loosely as the PR field. In a past job, I did a lot of speechwriting, and while my current job involves a lot more than just writing, there is no question that my skill as a writer got me up the organizational ladder to an executive level position with a respectable salary. And yet, I am somewhat frustrated by the fact that people read what I write today because they are paid to do so. In other words, they read my work because it's part of their job, part of what they're paid to do. I would love to write things that people pay to read; it's the difference between being a craftsman and being an artist. It hasn't happened yet, and unfortunately I don't have the darn time to really focus seriously on literary writing. This is not intended to discourage Laurie or anyone else from pursuing serious writing. But it does take a lot of dedication, aggravation and perseverence. Hang in there, Laurie. You do have talent.

[Heelfan]

Stu's above advice reminds me of of very apt saying here in the UK: Q: HOW DO YOU BECOME A MILLIONAIRE? A: START OUT AS A BILLIONAIRE AND THEN BECOME A WRITER! Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[PJ]

I once read somewhere that you should only become a writer when you fail at everything else.

But then again:

* Watership Down went through about 26 rejections before the late (and much lamented) Kaye Webb saw its potential.

* The first Harry Potter book is reported to have been rejected by 14 publishers.

* Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time received over 30 rejections and took 10 years to get published, and then went on to win a Newbery Award.

* Stephen King had over 30 rejections for Carrie. Imagine how the editors who rejected this must have felt when Stephen King went on to become possibly the best-selling writer in the world with so many of his books becoming blockbuster movies.

* Johnathan Livingston Seagull had over 140 rejections. (Obviously there was no editor like Kaye Webb around then.)

* Veterinary surgeon James Herriot threw his manuscript into a bottom drawer, telling his wife he was obviously no good at writing so he supposed he'd better stick to something at which he was good. But for his wife's stubborn belief in him, the world would have been robbed of some of the most enjoyable best-sellers ever written, not to mention the television spin-offs. http://www.jamesherriot.org/

* Best-selling author James Patterson's debut novel The Thomas Berryman Number won the Edgar Award for the best first mystery novel and was published by Little Brown in 1976 after being turned down by more than two dozen other publishers.

[Stu]

Thanks, PJ. All aspiring writers need to read anecdotes like that every once in a while.

[Laurieheels]

First, to address the part about dialogue. Yes, that is a tricky one. I like using dialogue because it is a direct expression of what the characters wish to convey, and it can capture things like slang and attitude that narrative can lose if it is in the third person. But it can become a bit much. Of course, I see everything in my mind, with vivid detail. If I could link a recorder to my mind, I'd be producing movies and TV Series that would congest the broadcast airwaves. So it is difficult to pull back from seeing the characters speaking in my mind, and bringing in a bit of narrative to compact the discussions. Second, well, I don't see myself as being a successful writer until I am some old woman. And we have to admit, a lot of the genre in which I am dabbling is dominated by men, and when women come into it with any strength, generally they are considered to have a feminist view, which is part of their success. Now, we take one girl with a dream, and she happens to love cooking and wearing heels and being all girlish, and not a feminist. Maybe that's a great angle, but... my goal is not to be famous. Okay, this requires qualification. I would like to make a good amount of money from royalties and selling rights and live a life of great comfort, with closests of shoes and clothes, a huge kitchen, a garden, and the security of knowing there is something in the bank every month. But I don't care to be on television shows, or do interviews, or sign autographs, or be known in that sense. I am just eager to write, and have people enjoy. I think my life is directed towards customer service, let's face it, all I am going to be anytime soon is a voice on the phone trying to explain utility bills. I do an excellent job of it, there's no doubt of that. And I am grateful to have that job. But right now, it feels like that's all I am. And elusive little glimpses of the life I wish to have, perky blonde, summers spent in strappy heels while enjoying lunch on some patio, spending the afternoon deeply immersed in the next part of creating a story... that's a life I may only get to experience by creating it for some story. I'd have better luck trying to become an engineer. Of course, I could always apply for a government loan to go to cooking school....

[Stu]

I disagree that the writing field is dominated by men. Look in any library, book store, or listing of best sellers, and you'll find plenty of women authors. It may well be that a large number write from a feminist bent, but that's because the field has a tendency to draw people with a liberal orientation, not because women writers are expected to be feminists. Look at all the female authors who write romances. For that matter, look in any science fiction magazine, and you'll see far more female writers than I ever saw when I was growing up. The most important thing is to practice the kind of writing you want, and if you don't want to write best sellers, that's fine. Just be sure you won't wake up when you're 45, 50 or 60, and lament that you really wanted to write the Great (North) American Novel after all, and you've lost a lot of good productive years that you could have used to produce it. I'm experiencing a little of that now, although I can feel good that at least I've done well in my mainstream, quasi-PR career.