Why Men Never Listen And Women Can't Read Maps.

[Dr. Shoe]

This is the title and subject of a very interesting book by an Australian author called Allan Pease (in collaboration with his wife Barbara). He also delivered a fascinating lecture about it at a seminar Ruth and I went to in Cardiff yesterday. The basic idea stems from the fact that we have not evolved at all in the last 50,000 years, though we have adapted according to our environment. It is amazing to realise that a stone-age man could quickly learn to program the video and to use the internet (assuming he was first taught a modern language preferably English and then to read it). However, if we were sent back to that era, we would barely survive. This means that everything that separates our genders is based on their roles in that kind of world. The man would have been hunting a zebra and watching it intently and focussed on the goal of making a kill. He would be estimating the distance, the speed of his prey and caluclating how fast and in what direction he would have to travel in order to bring himself in range of whatever weapon he would be using to kill with. The woman by contrast would be gathering berries (shopping) and looking after the kids. She would be looking around for predators and also evaluating the seeds or berries she was looking for in terms of ripeness and suitability. In a modern context, men can turn objects around in their minds, women have to turn the map around so that it is orientated in the same direction she's travelling and then she is looking for objects that correspond to those on the map. men can see the world around them in plan form and instantly equate it to the map. Men are better at reading upside down and mirrored writing whereas, women are much better at making sense of what it is they are reading (as long as they turn it around first). Women on the other hand, are much better at language skills (and have better peripheral vision) than men which makes them better suited to jobs in counselling and therapy. Women are capable of multi-tasking, men are not. Women talk whilst doing complicated tasks, men are more focussed on the job in hand which is why they never listen. Men can grasp a complicated film plot without too much trouble whilst women need it explaining. I'm not against equality in the work place because women doing the same job should be paid the same and given the same access to promotion as their male counterparts, but women are different to men.

[azraelle]

There's a book out, can't remember the title as I gave it to my daughter to read, that posits that those with ADD/ADHD/OCD have genetic inheritance from the "hunter-gatherer" type of Homo sapiens that was mostly supplanted/killed off by the crop cultivation type several thousand years ago. The basis of his thesis is the types of behavior that ADHD persons exhibit wouldn't be a liability, but instead a help for a hunter/gatherer. It would be interesting to find out how many hi-heel wearing men have some form of ADHD...

[Trolldeg]

generalizing is very dangerous. in this day and age you can't just say "men are like this" and "women are like that", because if you do, I'm not a man, because I don't fit the description. It's all about how you are raised.

[Yamyam]

Trolldeg: "All generalisations are dangerous - including this one!" This whole 'men are good at this &c' thing is a bit of a red herring, I think. I don't fit the typical 'man' description either, in that I have to turn maps around, and I can multitask, although not always . I also can't park for toffee, to the point where people have been known to look again as I unlock my (very badly parked) car. I also have excellent verbal and written skills, according to some psychometric test or other. (And I have been known to ask for directions ) On the other hand, I'm really untidy, don't notice washing up when it needs to be done, and forget to change toilet rolls. I think we're all a mix, with some people being nearer the male or female 'extreme', and some people slightly nearer the middle, with a mix of characteristics. Do people agree?

[Highluc]

I think we're all a mix, with some people being nearer the male or female 'extreme', and some people slightly nearer the middle, with a mix of characteristics. Do people agree?

I certainly agree and feel myself in this difficult middle zone without wanting or needing to make a definite choice. I am who I am and can live with that, most other people don't find it easy because they always think there are only two choices, male or female and can't handle so are afraid or disapprove the millions of in betweens.

[Lisa]

It is better to think of gender as a continuum, with "VERY MASCULINE" at one end and "VERY FEMININE" on the other and a bit of both in the middle. Sex (that is, your biological distinction) is normally a binary choice: male or female, or male reproductive parts or female reproductive parts. I say normally because there are XXY individuals so-called "intersexed" and/or "hermaphrodites." Gender (that is, your psychological distinction) is NOT - contrary to popular belief - a binary choice. Everyone has feminine traits and everyone has masculine traits. That said, men and women do have distinctily different brains and on the average think radically different. For example, women tend to notice details whereas a man would pass over the same thing. Is it due to the "lack of" evolution that men and women think differently? Well, that depends on who you ask. I don't think human beings are even close to anything resembling an "evolutionary endgame" stage. Thus it is premature to even comment on our evolution, especially with regard to the gender differences.

[Dr. Shoe]

Trolldeg: "All generalisations are dangerous - including this one!"

This whole 'men are good at this &c' thing is a bit of a red herring, I think. I don't fit the typical 'man' description either, in that I have to turn maps around, and I can multitask, although not always . I also can't park for toffee, to the point where people have been known to look again as I unlock my (very badly parked) car. I also have excellent verbal and written skills, according to some psychometric test or other. (And I have been known to ask for directions )

On the other hand, I'm really untidy, don't notice washing up when it needs to be done, and forget to change toilet rolls.

I think we're all a mix, with some people being nearer the male or female 'extreme', and some people slightly nearer the middle, with a mix of characteristics.

Do people agree?

Actually, this was one of the points that Allan Pease raised: Around one person in five exhibit opposite traits and also, one can train themselves in the skills that they are not born with. Sometimes a boy raised in a household of women will be able to multi-task and a girl raised with boys will enjoy football and have superior spatial skills. My ex-wife (the Kyliesque one) was an excellent driver and could put a Cortina Estate in a space meant for a Mini without any problem whereas, I'm not even going to TRY to teach Ruth to drive because she would be a nightmare on the road. Rosemary (our daughter on the other hand) would make a good driver and at the age of 15 can already handle a Sierra and maneouvre quite accurately and has quite a "masculine" spatial awareness.

Personally I can multi-task quite well: I talk on the phone whilst doing a crossword and posting on this board all at the same time. I am one of the 1 man in 5 who can safely look at girls in tight jeans and high stilettos without crashing his truck whilst talking on the hands-free mobile.

[Firefox]

Yes, this kind of book is a load of rubbish, and full of sweeping generalisations. People are largely a product of nurture. Many women aren't good with machines or plans because they have spent the first 15 years of their life being told that girls don't deal with that kind of thing. They come to believe it, and even think it is feminine or expected of them to boast how ignorant they are about such matters. Little do they realise how pathetic that is. Luckily this kind of attitude is declining as the years go by.