I'm so shocked...

[Jeff]

Today the right wing Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn - according to the latest polls not unlikely to be our next prime minister - was murdered. I'm so shocked... What is the world coming to... Jeff.

[terayon]

the last thing our free world needs / wants is another extreme right wing polatician...kinda makes ya think about how young adolf hitler got into office...just glad this time someone will stop the spread of facism

[Jeff]

Terayon, you are so wrong! He was not at all an extreme right wing politician.. The media and the left wing politicians liked putting him in that corner though. Problably the reason why someone freaked out and shot him tonight. _________________ Greetz, Jeff --- "She's going shopping, shopping for shoe-oe-oe-oes She wants them in magenta and Caribbean blue-ue-ue-ue" - Imelda, Mark Knopfler <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jeff on 2002-05-06 21:58 ]</font>

[Yamyam]

As I recall from UK news, he was fairly centre, openly gay, but opposed to immigration. Seemed like an odd combination, but that's what makes people interesting. But this whole issue has polarised people so much, it's not surprising someone's killed him. Not that I agree with killing people, of course!

[Firefox]

I'm shocked and diasappointed that you can think it is right someone is murdered because of their politcal views, Terayon.

[terayon]

im not very left wing, or even very involved in politics....but its been extremests that have ruined our society and killed millions in the past, look at adolf hitler, mousalini, stalin...all extremests and all responible for the death of millions....im not saying all right wingers are nazis who will cause another holocaust, but ive studied history and i know it was the lack of knowledge that allowed the nazi party to gain power, shit, if hitler hadnt been so dumb he wouldnt have let the same thing happen to his troops in stalingrad that happened to napoleon hundreds of years ago, if the french werent so stupid, they would have extended the maginot line all the way to the ocean throuugh belgium to the ocean and WWII would have never have happened....and if we arent to be dumb, we shouldnt let extremests into positions of power...when hitler got into power he didnt seem like such a madman, he even bragged that he got to power the legal way....but once he was there, all hell broke loose....but im rambling on now, long story short....extremists are bad and shouldnt rule a country so they can take over other countries so i can go fight in some foreign hell hole and die for people i dont know. end

[Laurieheels]

Terayon, you're too young to worry about those things. You should be having fun! It's not like Canada is going to have a draft! And if they do, wear heels to your draft meeting, and they'll send you home. Yes, extremists are bad, but aren't there enough moderate countries interested in a general sense of peace to step in quick when things go bad? There's a greater awareness today than in the middle of the century. I think the United States wants to stay dominant, and will do what they can to prevent extremists. Now, someone said this man was openly gay. That may have something to do with all of this rather than extreme political views. Terayon, smile! You're supposed to have fun and enjoy life. Not worry about being sent to die in some hell hole.

[terayon]

well considering im hopefully enlisting in the army reserves within the next month, it is a worry for me. *shrug* just for the record firefox, i never said i was happy he was dead, its never a good thing when someone dies...im saying im happy he never got elected to a position of authoriy

[Laurieheels]

Terayon, you are a riddle, for certain. Interesting and multi faceted, definately. Why the army reserve? It allows your fear to happen more readily than if you didn't join...

[terayon]

he was right wing laurie: army reserves are really cool, since ive always been interested in guns and explsovies, i figure i might as well get paid to learn about them properly and safely, besides....its only 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year, and who couldnt use some discipline? and its not just crazy army freaks that join the reserves, my history teacher is a tank commander, my english teacher is a batalion commander and i have like 2 other friends that are gunna join with me...i think itll be lots of fun...think heels are a big "no no" in the army though for guys, they are ultra traditionalists...

[Jeff]

On 2002-05-07 05:33, terayon wrote:

he was right wing

Is this what you call a political view? Only left and right, as in black and white, right and wrong?

We have in Holland about 20 political parties or so (if not more) and they range from ultra left to not so ultra right. We had one extreme right party in the past, butthey were never elected, thank god.. They where really racists in every sence of the word.

Now, the man who's murdered was someone who dared to express the opinions as they lived among the 'normal' people in the street. Opinions that where until now 'politicaly incorrect' to be expressed by a politician.

Was he a racists? Absolutely no. Did he say that the foreigner policy in our country s*cks? Yes, and he was right about that.

His party is actualy quite multicultural, I don't know al the people, but there are at least some black and some Islamic people in his party afaik.

One of the other things he stood for were reorganisation of our health-care system. As it is now, our government gives more and more money to the health-care organisation while the list of people waiting for care still gets longer, the upper management richer and the nurses m/f have to work way to hard because there are not enough of them.

Last thing I'd like to mention is that he also noted that safety in the streets in our country is getting worse and worse. Boy, was he right....

Jeff.

[Firefox]

Saying that your "glad someone stopped the spread of facism" when the guy was killed IS agreeing with the total course of events. However, whatever the wording, as I understand it, this guy was neither racist or facist. He had a black deputy, and was only against further immigration into the NL on the grounds that it is heavily populated in the first place.

[Dr. Shoe]

Reading posts in this thread reminds me of a situation I was in. A gentleman came up to me with a petition calling for the BNP to be banned and I refused to sign it! Not because I agreed with the BNP (far from it in fact) but I didn't want to give the government a mandate to ban political parties. At the time Mrs Thatcher was holding court in Westminster and to ask her government to ban a far right party would have given them the excuse to ban a far left party as well (communists perhaps). Then perhaps they would start banning more moderate left wingers too such as the Labour party! This could only ever lead to civil war. Moreover, by banning a party, you give them a voice that they would not otherwise have and people who would lean to a more moderate point of view could start going the other way and supporting the "banned" group.

[Firefox]

Nevertheless, we have banned organisations in the past whose aims were political but whose methods were terrorism/violence. So in order to maintain Democracy, certain groups do have to be banned. It's a question of where you draw the line.

[Dr. Shoe]

In actual fact Firefox, I believe (I could be wrong) that there have been no instance of any POLITICAL part being banned for any reason. Sometimes the "militant" arm of the party is banned in its own right, I'm thinking of the IRA, UDA, Combat 18 to name a few. We have not banned Sein Fein (?), The Unionist Party nor the BNP.

[Highluc]

Today the Belgian Parlament discussed the right to request political assylum and naturalisation for that one El Fatah Arabic terrorist that Belgium decided to accept after 9 of those guys got spread around Europe after transiting through Cyprus when they got "liberated" from the Betlehem church. The opposition is furious that our country allows an internationally recognised Arab terrorist to apply for assylum. We need a Belgian Pim Fortuyn ASAP. Today the police picked up 50 Afghan people throughout the country. These people organised the smuggling of hundreds of Afghans through Europe with final destination UK.

[Van]

Hi Highluc, for once i must disagree with you, as a fellow belgian. I am also quite skeptical about some of our govt's position on the issue of the palestinians that have been granted asylum. But the last thing Belgium needs is a Belgian Pim Fortuyn. We've already have quite enough political weirdos around. I do not believe in populism (PF was a right-wing populist, i wouldn't call him a fascist), there are unfortunately no simple solutions to extremely complex questions faced by our "post-modern" society. I don't have the answers but neither have Pim Fortuyn, Le Pen or Philip Dewinter. In a way, i'm glad to be a few thousand miles away (i passed thru' Brussels last week, between two planes. I enjoyed it though). Best regards, Vanessa getting very close to getting rid of her awful comfy loafer