Has fashion/society gone past men in heels?

[DandyDude]

I'm posting this here because I want replies from both sexes. When I think back to when heels for men were more or less semi-acceptable, I recall that they were considerd dandyish, a sort of women's-man style. Think of the early 1960s 'continental shoes," what would get called "Beatle Boots" a few years later, they had 3" and higher heels. 1970s platforms. A return to pointy heels in the early 1980s, think early Motley Crue. In the early 1990s platforms again, although not so blatant, as the media was salivating over "grunge." Nowadays, everything is based on the "thugz"/prison-derived "look." I've even noticed on the various fashion forums that young women, especially black-identified, seem to be absolutely horrified at the thought of a man wearing anything but "Tims." According to them, a man wearing heels is ipso facto gay and or/trans of some sort. Heaven forbid those mixed-up girls ever find out the origin of the saggies and Tims image they think is so much what a real man has to wear! My basic question boils down to this: Considering the fact that male heel wearing is so identified with trans-ism and/or fetish, plus the fact that the shaven head/"Tims"/saggies thing seems to be so ingrained in male "style," is the male/female dynamic still thre that gets teenage boys to dress sharp to impress the girls still there, or has it died out to be replaced by a mess of scowling, Tims-wearing misogynists?

[DandyDude]

What, no more freewheeling discussions? Okay, if that's what's wanted, I'll be as the proverbial Romans.

[shyguy]

I find with my own daughters, that they are individuals, one likes to be feminine and girly, the other dresses in baggies and hoodies. Neither seems to mind what anyone else wears though, maybe because of my own (unknown to them) liking for womens shoes, we teach them to accept everyone for their own individuality, and not judge someone by their clothes. in my own experience though, both sexes still have to dress in a way to impress the opposite sex, but as always, the style used to impress is changing periodically. In other words, fashion dictates what most people feel will impress the opposite sex most, and attract a mate. Hence they wear what is "in style" for the time they are trying to impress.

[Guy N. Heels]

In the final analysis, fashion is really about sex. Nature itself teaches us that birds and other animals have their dances and other mating rituals to attract the opposite sex. Only with homo-sapiens, we tend to use clothing and fashion. However, this is a matter that remains in a constant state of flux. Quite often, what comes into fashion goes out of style. Plus, there's really no accounting for taste. What is perceived to be quite fashionable or chic in one society is often abhorred in another. Many societies prefer men to wear jewelry while some think it is - at best - weird or ugly. Some societies find make-up to be quite revolting while it is literally big business in most western cultures. Has society gone past men in heels? I doubt it very much, but let's first talk about exactly which society you had in mind?

[Guest]

well, it all really depends of the particular culture that you do belong to, the sense of fashion means all different things to all people-in short it is one BIG planet that we all live on to be exact.

[dr1819]

Interesting comment about makeup, guy-in-heels. I've noticed that throughout Asia few women ever wear makeup.

[Guy N. Heels]

Interesting comment about makeup, guy-in-heels. I've noticed that throughout Asia few women ever wear makeup.

Right you are. I don't know if it is for economic reasons, or if they simply place a very low priority on women wearing make-up. My geisha did wear a modest amount of make-up and some jewelry, but she seemed much more predominantly concerned with her hair and her attire.

On the other hand, maybe they're saving it all for the kabuki dancers! I'm sure you know that it has only been in fairly recent times that the kabuki admitted women to their troup. Before that, all dancers were male and the ones who played women were very heavily made-up.

Nevertheless, the plain and simple fact is that Asians are not burdened with Victorian notions of sexuality. To westerners who are, Asian culture is a real shock :evil: that may require many months to overcome.

[dr1819]

To westerners who are, Asian culture is a real shock that may require many months to overcome.

Months? Try years, and I'm fairly open-minded.

[Guy N. Heels]

Months? Try years, and I'm fairly open-minded.

Again, right you are. Just one small example: when I was shopping around for office space for a company I was working for, one of the questions that came up fairly early was whether or not both men and women would be using the office. Since I didn't understand the significance of the question, I asked what difference it made? That's when I was informed that local laws required separate rest rooms for each sex in the office.

Now try and contrast this, and also appreciate my cultural shock with when I first went into a public rest room in Okinawa only to find both men and women there! Apparently they totally believe in equal opportunity rest rooms. Even though I have long-since overcome that incident, you may be sure that I've never forgotten it.

[dr1819]

Again, right you are. Just one small example: when I was shopping around for office space for a company I was working for, one of the questions that came up fairly early was whether or not both men and women would be using the office. Since I didn't understand the significance of the question, I asked what difference it made? That's when I was informed that local laws required separate rest rooms for each sex in the office.

Now try and contrast this, and also appreciate my cultural shock with when I first went into a public rest room in Okinawa only to find both men and women there! Apparently they totally believe in equal opportunity rest rooms. Even though I have long-since overcome that incident, you may be sure that I've never forgotten it.

Man, does this bring back memories! Like the time about five years ago while visiting a bar with friends. The ladies' room was caput, so they just nailed the sign next to the sign on the guy's room.

The problem is, the guy's room didn't have doors on the stalls.

About nine guys, and in walked a lady, who was wriggling because she just absolutely had to go, and before she got a third of her request to use the bathroom, the guys were all yelling, "yes, of course - go! We don't care!" so she made herself at quite at home and took care of business, as did the several gals behind her.

Interesting night, as I probably revisted this restroom another four times before the night was over, and the ratio over the evening rapidly approached 50%...

"Okinawa" and "equal opportunity rest rooms."

Man, does this bring back memories! Like the time about five years ago while visiting a bar with friends in Korea. The ladies' room was caput, so they just nailed the sign next to the sign on the door to the guy's room.

The problem is, the guy's room didn't have doors on the stalls.

About nine guys were in there taking care of business, and in walked a lady, who was wriggling because she just absolutely had to go, and before she got a third of her request to use the bathroom, the guys were all yelling, "yes, of course - go! We don't care!" so she made herself at quite at home and took care of business, as did the several gals behind her.

Interesting night, as I probably revisted this restroom another four times before the night was over, and the ratio over the evening rapidly approached 50%...

Here are some additional characters to the hundreds listed above in order to make this message "not too short."

[Guy N. Heels]

Man, does this bring back memories! Like the time about five years ago while visiting a bar with friends. The ladies' room was caput, so they just nailed the sign next to the sign on the guy's room.

The problem is, the guy's room didn't have doors on the stalls.

About nine guys, and in walked a lady, who was wriggling because she just absolutely had to go, and before she got a third of her request to use the bathroom, the guys were all yelling, "yes, of course - go! We don't care!" so she made herself at quite at home and took care of business, as did the several gals behind her.

Interesting night, as I probably revisted this restroom another four times before the night was over, and the ratio over the evening rapidly approached 50%...

Well, er, uh, what can I say?

[DandyDude]

My point that I was trying to make was this: I personally believe that the influence of the psychs has made everything that is not "average" into some sort of deviancy to be isolated. Therefore, male heelwearing will remain in the niche of "transgender," as opposed to like it was years ago as a fully integrated style. As for saggies, they are the new norm, not the deviancy/fad. Kids grow up nowadays wearing that sort of rubbish as a matter of course. It is the standard by which everything else is judged.

[dr1819]

Actually, saggies were sort of late 90's. Today it's more 70's pimp style with knee-long coats. As for men in heels, the sales of larger sizes continue to climb, even if media reports remain steady. Sales speak volumes.