Heels height scaling

[GrayLion]

Folks, especially Dr.Shoe

I ahev been wondering about the way heel height scales with foot size becuase the way most manufacturer seem to ncrease heel height disproportionally less than foot size. Have a look at and whether I am right or wrong?

cheers

Bernhard

[Dr. Shoe]

In order to reduce costs, if a manufacturer was to increase heel height with size, they would normally have 2 or 3 sizes per heel height. For example: 36 & 37 = 9cm, 38 & 39 = 10cm, 40 & 41 = 11cm. These shoes would be marketed as 10cm heels. Most manufacturers don't bother which is why heels look higher in the smaller sizes. Remember that footwear manufacture is a compromise that falls half-way between design and cost.

[new_look]

thats true. my stiletto boots from mk one, are fine and look fairly high with the 4.5in heel, but i coldnt help noticinfg the unbought 4's and 5's on the rack which looked a lot higher and had an arch similar to some fetish heel heights (which iis probably why no woman dared to buy ) daz

[genebujold]

In addition to Dr. Shoe's comments, the heels for larger shoes have to be designed for larger shoes - and they are either rare or expensive. As a result, the mfg often sticks on a heel designed for a smaller shoe. The result is that the heel is raked in towards the ball of the foot! Several pairs I purchased from Fredericks were this way. That and the extreme discomfort of their shoes made me drop them forever. In contrast, the heel on my Franco Sarto boots (look left) are correctly proportioned for my 11M (US ladies' size) feet, which means it's at the proper angle, less prone to dig into the forward area of my heel, and far more comfortable.

[Dr. Shoe]

This is quite correct though the boots I wore to the September Heelmeet were Fredericks which are some of my favourites and excellent in terms of fit, comfort and build quality.

[Arno]

Before Christmas I posted a table showing how heel height should vary with shoe size. It made use of the "length to size" table at the Payless web site and showed the equivalent height of a stiletto heel when shoe size goes from size three to size fourteen (US ladies). There were three columns, one each for a reference height of four, five or six inches on a size nine shoe, and I did it for all full sizes. Size nine makes a good nominal reference size since eight and a half is the average ladies shoe size in the US. This information allows functional comparison of heel heights on shoes of different size. Simply find out what height it would become on a size nine shoe and call that its "effective" height or something similar. I tried to keep it simple but the table can be easily extended if need be. I don't see the table any more and assume that it has scrolled off into an archive of some sort.

[GrayLion]

hmm folks that wasn't actually my question. my question was more whether my calculations are indeed correct. that maost manufacturers don't do it that way is a sad truth ... cheers Bernhard

[Tom-NL]

It is still there, Arno:

http://www.hhplace.org/hhboard/viewtopic.php?t=2333

(it just has scrolled away to the next page on the threads list for that forum)

[genebujold]

If you want to scale a heel, it's simple. Let's say we want to see how tall a 4" heel on a size 8-1/2 US would have to be on a size 11 US (my size).

1. Find the length of the foot corresponding to the average female shoe size using Payless' scale: http://www.payless.com/en-US/Consumer/CustomerSupport/Finding_Size.htm#measurement

In this case, size 8-1/2 US corresponds to 9-13/16" long, or 9.1825".

2. Divide the heighth of the heel by this length.

4" / 9.1825" = 0.4356

3. Multiply this number by the length of your own foot in inches, again using the Payless scale. Size 11 US corresponds to a length of 10-11/16", or 10.6875" so:

.4356 x 10.6875 = 4.67"

In other words, a 4" heel on a size 8 US corresponds to a 4-2/3" heel on a size 11.

You can convert other heel height equivalents in a similar fashion.

[Tom-NL]

Not quite, Gené, because the part before the ball of the foot (aka the toes) doesn't rise as much as the part behind the ball of the foot - in fact it hardly rises at all. So before calculating the "steepness ratio", you would have to subtract the length of the toes from the footlength that corresponds to the standard shoe size. Only then you calculate the steepness ratio. Next you subtract the length of your toes from the foot length that corresponds to your shoe size, and multiply that difference with the steepness ratio you had calculated before.

Only thing that still needs to be settled: what is the "standard length" of the toes for the "standard foot"? I am sure that Dr Shoe can answer that

[Slim]

Where did the "length of foot" measurments come from--what are they? With my foot length (25cm) I should be able to wear a usw 6.5. Well an 8 is my lower limit.

[Arno]

Thanks, Tom. Slim - foot length is measured in inches from heel to toe. 25 centimeters is ten inches and if you click on the link to the Payless site that Genebujold posted you will see that it corresponds to size 9. As to GrayLion's tables, I have no idea where they came from or what they purport to show.

[Dr. Shoe]

I couldn't say whether your calculations are correct or not.

Footwear design is all about aesthetics. Two designers could produce almost identical shoes but one might not look as good as the other. It might be indefinable, a slightly thinner strap here, a different curve there. I don't know of a single designer who is unduly bothered about scaling heel heights.

[Arno]

I think you are right about designers not caring about scaling heel height, but they should. Because unless the scaling is accurate the styling will change with shoe size. In their pursuit for esthetics they also ignore things like the actual shape of the foot, with the result that some women now have their feet surgically altered to fit into the narrow designer shoes they desire.

[genebujold]

Not quite, Gené, because the part before the ball of the foot (aka the toes) doesn't rise as much as the part behind the ball of the foot - in fact it hardly rises at all. So before calculating the "steepness ratio", you would have to subtract the length of the toes from the footlength that corresponds to the standard shoe size. Only then you calculate the steepness ratio. Next you subtract the length of your toes from the foot length that corresponds to your shoe size, and multiply that difference with the steepness ratio you had calculated before.

Only thing that still needs to be settled: what is the "standard length" of the toes for the "standard foot"? I am sure that Dr Shoe can answer that

Doesn't matter - draw the diagrams, and you'll see.

Why? It's a proportionality function: Draw a foot with an elevated heel, photocopy it at 120%, then do the measurements (length vs heel height) of each. Divide the hh by length.

You'll find they're identical for both the 100% and 120% foot.

[genebujold]

I think you are right about designers not caring about scaling heel height, but they should. Because unless the scaling is accurate the styling will change with shoe size. In their pursuit for esthetics they also ignore things like the actual shape of the foot, with the result that some women now have their feet surgically altered to fit into the narrow designer shoes they desire.

Exactly! They might be able to get away with using the same heel on two adjacent sizes, but they'll need a new one for the next size up.

It's also a matter of function, something I've noticed with a couple pair I bought from Fredericks - the heel was obviously not made for an 11, so it canted inward towards the ball of my foot, making it fairly unstable. Eventually, it broke off a the bottom of the heel cup where the heel meets the shoe.