polkadot

Can we wrap up this discussion with a consensus? I propose the following definitions: The figure of merit is the angle between a horizontal line and the most steep, front part of the foot below the ankle. This angle is called the shoe angle. VERY LOW HEEL SHOE shoe angle = less than 60 degrees LOW HEEL SHOE shoe angle = 60 degrees to 75 degrees MEDIUM HEEL SHOE shoe angle = 75 degrees to 85 degrees HIGH HEEL SHOE shoe angle = 85 degrees to 90 degrees VERY HIGH HEEL SHOE shoe angle = more than 90 degrees

For example, if the definition is to measure the physical effects, I suppose the definition would have to be measured in the degree of extension etc. exhibited by the muscles rather than any measure of angle etc. – although of course the angle of the shoe, and the shape caused to the foot would have effects on this. (i.e. a muscle 2" long extended to 3" is a 50% extension etc. - and is independant on any training - 50% may be a streach for some but not for others)

We cannot use this method when the Achilles tendons are shortened.

In the mid-range between these two examples would be the people on this site, our view on heel height tends to be based upon the angle the foot makes with the ankle – visual of course.

This is the only thing that matters. Bent feet are much more sexy than walking on stilts. :drinking:

We may then either decide on an angular measurement – taking into account the actual shape of the shoe as well as the simple angle based on heel height vs size or a simpler view based on heel height vs size alone.

In either of the above cases, I think we need to define an angle that declares the transition between classifications, and then work out an appropriate height based upon shoe size

So as an example, a size 39 ½ is 255 millimetres long (about 10”) and given the fact that only about 80% forms the slope portion (Ballet shoes excepting of course) then a 5” heel would form a 38.7 deg angle - this is under 40 deg – we may call this high - but the same 5” on a size 37 ½ (243 millimetres long) gives 40.8 deg – this is over 40 deg – so shall we call this fetish/ultra high?

I think we should use European sizes – since they cannot be confused between UK and US so only one table is required.

(Note I have gone for the simple approach on angles here !)

We talked about that already. We would have to include curvature of the shank in this method. Furthermore, we would have to make different tables for European sizes, U.K. sizes, U.S. sizes, etc. This method is too complex.

I believe that the best method would be based on single measurement of an angle.

sscotty727,

What is the purpose of the Triad insert? To hold the gel insert in place? If this is the case, why do you use double stick tape? A shoe glue would hold the gel insert in place much more securely than the double stick tape. (If the shoe glue does not adhere to the gel insert, you can prime the gel insert surface with coarse sandpaper or a burning match.)

All soft inserts, including your inserts provide some relief, but they are of little help in really high heel shoes, because they do not prevent sliding of the feet forward. When your feet slide forward, your toes are squeezed, which is painful.

The custom insert described in my web page (http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm) prevents forward sliding of the foot, so the toes are not squeezed.

Inserts made of hard rubber, leather, or plastic are more durable than inserts made of gel or soft elastomer.

I tried variety of inserts (ready made and custom made) in high heel shoes of different heights, (mostly 6 inch heels, which turn my feet into vertical position).

Why have I never thought about that? Thanks for the input! My local cobbler (or shoe repairer) is a very nice man who likes heels. It's worth a try!

Keep tinkering with the tape - add a little tape here, remove a little tape there, until it feels just right. I doubt any craftsman can make perfect inserts on the first try - you may actually save time if you make them yourself. Let me know if you are making progress.

What about using the shank angle?

I have a pair of high heel shoes that have 1 inch gap between the front/bottom of the shank and the foot.

All the ready made high heel shoes are implements of torture, not because their heels are too high, but because their design does not make sense. One would expect female members of the High Heel Meeting Place to discuss comfortable high heel shoe design and modification, but they never mention these topics. When someone says "my feet are killing me" the standard response is "you must get used to it." Are these women masochists?

Thanks for posting! Very useful information. I doubt my local cobbler is able to make a pair of high heeled shoes though... He only does reparations, as do most cobblers in Denmark.

Try to experiment with the inserts - you can make them yourself from any kind of thick adhesive tape. If the toe box is closed, nobody will see the ugly tape. If the toebox is open, you can have the cobbler glue a piece of leather on top of your tape to hide the tape.

What irks me on the method (although I like the principle) is you're

measuring the upper part of the foot. I don't think the top/sole angle is a

constant.

No, it is not. Can you imagine more precise way of measuring the angle of the foot? The bottom surface of the foot is a little more straight than its top surface, but it is usually hidden inside the shoe, so it is difficult to measure its angle.

I think it would make sense to turn the measurement around so a flat foot

is the lowest angle and the higher the heel the bigger the angle.

I like this idea.

Hm...I was never a math genius, and I'm afraid, I'd never figure out whether my shoes were medium, high or fetish. Apart from that, I tend to agree that shoes can be fetish shoes even though they are not all the high. Perhaps the design is more important. (I need a smiley scratching it's head, here).

Is "ultra high heel shoe" or "very high heel shoe" better name than "fetish shoe"?

Size (UK)

1 >1 Low, 1-2 Med, 2-3 High, <3 fetish

2 >1 Low, 1-2.25 Med, 2.25-3.5 High, <3.5 Fetish

3 >1 Low, 1-2.25 Med, 2.25-3.75 High, <3.75 Fetish

4 >1.25 Low, 1.25-2.5 Med, 2.5-4 High, <4 Fetish

5 >1.25 Low, 1.25-2.75 Med, 2.75-4.25 High, <4.25 Fetish

6 >1.5 Low. 1.5-3 Med, 3-4.5 High, <4.5 Fetish

7 >1.5 Low, 1.5-3.25 Med, 3.25-4.75 High, <4.75 High.

8 >1.75 Low, 1.75-3.5 Med, 3.5-5 High, <5 Fetish

9 >1.75 Low, 1.75-3.75 Med. 3.75-5.25 High, <5.25 Fetish

10 >2 Low, 2-4 Med, 4-5.5 High, <5.5 Fetish

11 >2 Low, 2-4.25 Med, 4.25-5.75 High, <5.75 Fetish

12 >3 Low, 3-4.5 Med. 4.5-6 High, <6 Fetish

U.K. size 1 equals 22 centimeters.

U.K. size 12 equals 28.8 centimeters.

One would expect that within each category

(e.g., medium heel height) the ratio of heel

height to shoe length would be the same, but

your numbers do not follow this rule; they seem

to be random.

It's probably better to come up with

a ratio of size to heel height so that no one has to

make complicated measurements..

This method, in its pure form, will not work because two shoes

having the same size and the same shoe angle may have

different heel heights. For example, a shoe having flat shank

(http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/bad_shank.jpg)

has 0.7 inch higher heel than a shoe having curved shank

(http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/good_shank.jpg)

Your method makes sense as a rough guide if we make two

tables: one table for the flat shanks and the other

table for the curved shanks.

Note that your method is far from simple. To use this

method you have to measure the shoe length, the sole

thickness, the heel height, the shank curvature, then

subtract the sole thickness from the heel height and

find the right table (shank curve, U.S. size, Euro size,

U.K. size, etc.).

LOW HEEL SHOE

shoe angle = less than minus 15 degrees

MEDIUM HEEL SHOE

shoe angle = minus 15 degrees to minus 5 degrees

HIGH HEEL SHOE

shoe angle = minus 5 degrees to plus 5 degrees

FETISH SHOE

shoe angle = more than plus 5 degrees

Details and examples:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm#heel_height

Any suggestions for an appropriate action?

Ready made high heel shoes are instruments of torture.

Mail-order custom shoes do not exist -- it is just

advertising gimmick. The real custom-made shoes fit

your feet perfectly, especially under the ball of the

foot. More info:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm

There are male high heel races in Washington, DC, and New

York City. There are female high heel races in Israel:

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/4485.htm

Baseball and softball will cease to be Olympic sports

after 2012. What will replace them? Maybe ultra high

heel race? It certainly would attract more TV viewers

than many existing Olympic sports. In the short run,

shoe shops could sponsor small, local races. High heel

race cannot be a real sport unless it has clear rules,

including clearly defined heel height. For example:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm#shoe_angle

Is it true that men can jog in high heel shoes, but women cannot, because their ligaments are too weak?

Excellent info, polkadot!

I have just updated this web page.

There is better info about heel

height and photo-examples.

Original and tested info about comfy high heel shoes:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm

This picture is grossly inaccurate.

If we assume that the highest heel is 20 cm tall,

the height of the rest of them from the right to

the left is: 16cm, 13.4cm, 12.4cm, 9.7cm, and 7.5cm.

The heel height alone is meaningless unless you also

know the shoe size, the sole thickness, and the shape

of the shank. Nobody has the time to convert this data

into the only yardstick that maters – the shoe angle:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm#shoe_angle

Women are reluctant to wear high heel shoes because these shoes are not comfortable and because women do not know that it is possible to make comfortable, high heel shoes. You have to take charge. First, read the short, technical description of comfortable high heel shoes:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm. Then, decide if you can afford custom made shoes. If not, take ready made shoes to a cobbler to stretch their tow boxes before you make custom inserts at home from duct tape.

Original and tested info about comfy high heel shoes:

http://www.medianet.pl/~andrew/shoes/comfy_heels.htm