j-turbo2002

History has shown that violence creates more violence.

You know, now that I think about it, the reasoning and logic behind this statement make no sense at all. Also, there is no historical evidence to back this statement up. Therefore, it is not a fair argument.

They both appear to have lost their abilities to relativate and see the big picture in the world.

What are you talking about? I do see the big picture. I am a Chartered Engineer. I get paid to see the big picture and solve problems. This is what I have been doing for the later half of my life. Something of which is more than I can say for you.

Also, since you have just "transformed" yourself, don't you dare try to lecture me on, "lost their abilities to relativate and see the big picture".

I will see you again in a year from now.

History has shown that violence creates more violence. Witness the Palestinian/Israeli conflict or the recent troubles in Northern Ireland or ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia. Are we going to solve these problems with appeasement or force? Your opinion welcomed.

You should be asking yourself that very same question:

How many people on the board would agree that this statement is right?

A polocy of appeasement has caused all of the problems that you have mentioned here. Not violence causes violence. I am ashamed at you. I thought that you knew your history better.

The world is free today because WWII was fought with force. South Korea is free today because their freedom was fought with force. More importantly, the Sovet Union is no longer here today because of force.

America won its freedom because of force.

I could go on and on. Would you like me to?

I bow to your superior knowledge J-Turbo.

Well, I don't know what to say, I knew that I was good but, Geez!

Let me be the first to say that I am sorry for making you feel inferior to myself for that was not my intention at all.

I was simply making a true statement based on what I knew about the Pope. As I have already metioned, I am a devout Roman Catholic, and I know a lot about the Pope based on what I have studied about him. I also know a lot about what goes on in his daily life.

That was all.

This has nothing to do with propaganda. I am not quite sure where you got this idea from. (?)

Once again, I am sorry that I hurt your feelings by making you feel inferior to me.

Can you forgive me? I don't know if you are a religious man or not however, the Pope would forgive me. That is just what kind of man he is.

I watched the meeting just as you have and this is what I came away with. Also, this is what most of the media here in the US reported.

The following is from this weeks edition of the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/public/us (you will need a username and password to log in)

Pope John Paul has told President Bush at the Vatican today that there have been "encouraging" steps in Iraq.

But the pontiff also reminded Bush of the Vatican's opposition to the war (Note: It does not say the Pope's opposition! Rather most of the Cardinals oppose the war and have been very outspoken about it!) , and he called for U-N involvement in a "speedy return" of sovereignty to Iraqis.

Afterward, the 84-year-old pope spoke from a wheelchair -- his hands shaking and his frail voice difficult to understand.

But a transcript supplied by the Vatican shows him urging the situation in Iraq be "normalized as quickly as possible."

Bush didn't reply directly, but promised to "work for human liberty and human dignity."

He also presented John Paul with the presidential medal of freedom -- America's highest civilian honor -- telling the pope that in America, he's "respected, admired and greatly loved."

********

Now dammit! I am not making this stuff up! I am using a credible source here which is more than I can say for you.

Now you tell me who is believing his own propaganda? It sure as hell is not me!

This is all that I have to say about the Pope!

So Al Qaeda is "on the run" and all but finished? They wouldn't attempt bombings other than places like Spain? I believe they carried out successful attacks in New York and Washington if my memory serves me correctly. If you think Al Qaeda is incapable of attacking places other than like Spain, are you going to categorically state they wont try anything in the US or in the UK?

The reason Al Qaeda attacked New York and Washington is because we followed the false Firefox attitude of, "Well, if we don't do anything to them, they won't do anything to us" for 8 years during the Clinton Administration.

Boy, I am sure glad that this polocy worked. What did it give us? September 11th.

Listen Firefox, Al Qaeda is pure evil. History has shown that you cannot appease evil, rather, you have to destroy it - no matter the costs. Your false attitude of appeasement is what is going to get us all killed again.

History has continuously shown that appeasement solves nothing. It just leads to more trouble, death, and suffering. And you have the nerve to call yourself a realist?

Appeasement shows weakness. Al Qaeda loves to see weakness in countries. This is why Spain was attacked - they believed in appeasement.

If there are others over there in the UK who think like you do, who show weakness, who believe in appeasement, then I would start worry. There will be another attack in the UK.

I believe that there will never be another terrorist attack on US soil again for the sole fact that we are a strong nation that has learned from its mistakes and has refused to go about a polocy of appeasement and show weakness.

If Bush and Blair want to win against islamic terror they are continually shooting themselves in the feet. They should remember it is difficult to pursue terrorists when your feet are full of bullet holes.

To my knowledge, they have not shot themselves in the foot. It is too bad that they are having trouble aiming at their feet.

I know for a fact that Bush is wearing steel toed boots. Maybe this is the reason?

So now it would seem the Pope is a communist.

I wonder how that sits with the Roman Catholics of the US.

Well, I have news for you, I am a devout Roman Catholic.

No, of couse the Pope is not a communist. I have studied John Paul in great detail. This is a man who could have very well been anything he wanted to be. John Paul is a very hard man to put in a political sense. To me, he is a Liberal Republican yet he stands on the boarderline between Liberal Democrat and Liberal Republican. This is why he is hard to put in a political sense.

Contrary to popular belief, the Pope has been supportive of the War in Iraq. The Pope knows that a lot of good is going to come from this war and the only issue that he has called for is a quick/speedy end to the war and to pray for those who are going to be in suffering and pain during the conflict. Yet, to my knowledge, to this day he has never come out and fully opposed the war.

UN Resolution 1441 was a total and clear justification for the war in Iraq. I have noticed that people who say, "using 1441 as a justification for the war in Iraq is a hollow argument" are just too damn ashamed to admit that there was a Resolution in the UN Security Council that called for the disarmament of Iraq. So, they go and try to "blow smoke" around the resolution that existed by saying 1441 was a hollow argument. It is like they are trying to make the whole issue disappear to back up their own personal agendas.

Everyone knew that there was a resolution in the UN Security Council that called for the disarmament of Iraq. Six to seven months before the war, President Bush repeatedly was quoted over and over again as saying that the United States would enforce the resolution when it came time to do so - and we did. So, when the war in Iraq started, it should have been to no surprise to anyone that the US was there.

The whole point is, that to win a war against terrorism, you have to fight on two fronts. Apprehend the terrorists themselves and chip away at any issues or injustice which is fuelling new recruits to their cause.

Where have you been the past year-and-a-half? This is what the United States is doing along with its partners around the world.

The war in Iraq has greatly strengthend the war on terror. Al Qaeda has been disseminated and they are on the run. They are cold and runnig scared. No on wants to join their stupid/immoral cause now. We are eliminating their bases in Iraq and everywhere else in the region.

Al Qaeda wanted to pick a fight with the US and they recieved their wish. We a are taking the fight right to them in Iraq, etc. We are winning and they know this. They also know that they only have a matter of time before the US wipes them from the face of the earth. You can continue to watch the BBC and Aljazeera and continue to have your mind polluted with the idea of "agression against Arab states by the USA" and that is fine but, believe me, I speak the truth based on the facts as they are today.

Very, very small pockets of Al Qaeda members occasionally do rear up their ugly heads now-and-then (i.e., The Madrid Bombings). Believe me, they would have not attempted this anywhere else. There was a reason why they picked Spain.

On account of these reasons, most people have seen the light that the war in Iraq was not based on anything else other than greed for control of oil

You see, highly educated and logical thinking intellectuals like myself know how to that this is not a fair argument at all.

To see why the "War for Oil" claim is a farse you really need to sit down and do the math. It is something one cannot tell you, rather, it is something that you need to see with your own eyes - on paper. If you are not willing to do a little bit of research and sit down and do some math and bais this argument on just what the weak minded say - I have no respect for you at all.

As far as I know President Bush has been very supportive of the current Israeli withdrawl. Mr. Bush has repeatedly been quoted as saying that he wants to see the establishment of a Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel.

There is a dirty little secret that lies behind the, "UN resolutions which call for Israeli withdrawal from certain areas." The secret is that Great Brittan has been absent during the voting on most of those resolutions. This is typical of the UK, they talk big about those resolutions but when it comes down to voting on them they are no where to be found. Perhaps it is best to let this one die? During the past year the US has only vetoed one of those resolutions. Since the year 2000, it has only vetoed three. My source for this information comes from the U.S. State Department:

http://www.state.gov/

Bush has caused a lot of controversy by saying that Israel has the absolute right to defend itself.

The US money markets are influenced by a vast range of people and cultures. This is what makes the United States so great. It is not all influenced by the Jewish people. The people who make this kind of statement usually have something against Jewish people and their culture. They are usually filled with hate for the Jewish and so they go on and make these false and ridiculous accusations just to reinforce themselves and add fuel to their burning hate fire.

The Iraqi people finally have freedom from a horrid barbaric regime. We Americans are very persistant, determined, and hard working people. We will prevail. We always have and we always will - no matter the costs! In Vietnam, we showed the world that we would fight the threat of communism even if it meant loosing the battle and 50,000 lives. History would later show that by loosing that battle we would eventually win the war - the Soviet Union collapsed. We are going to show the world that we can bring a stable self governing democracy to those who have never in their lifetime had it. We Americans belive that everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Sadly, there are people in the "rest of the world" who do not share this view. They think that the world is a better place when there are others suffering. They think that we "should not get involved". We enforced UN Resolution 1441 and all of the 14 amendments that went along with it. The UN sadly did not want to follow its own resolution but the US did. If it were not for the US the UN would be a much bigger laughing stock than it is today. We will also find Weapons of Mass Destruction someday. Remember, the US has to search an area the size of California with no hints as to where to look. We have found out that most of the people who worked in the former Iraqi weapons program have been either been killed or they are afraid to talk for fear that their lives might be in danger. Also, we have found out that most of the much needed supporing documents that chronicled the Iraqi weapons program were destroyed by the former Iraqi regime. Just look at what the US is digging out of that desert. I am sure that most of you have seen the images of the US Army digging up the Iraqi Mig fighters and T-72 tanks from the desert floor. What else is buried out in that desert? Only time will tell. So, in the end, I strongly suggest that all of you irrational, nonlogical, and emotional "touchy feely" people just calm down and take a deep breath. Everything is going to be okay. You just need to keep a positive outlook on the issues at hand. Believe me being positive will take you a long way in life. I am living proof of this. Being a positive person has helped me to become one of the most successful, well respected Professional/Chartered Mechanical Engineers in my industry. However, for those of you who choose not to be positive............... To those of you who choose to be envious of those who are better than you, pessimistic, and negative about everything - watch out! You will soon find all of you hopes, dreams, and everything that you thought that you were quickly being flushed down the toilet.

This is what watching Fox News will do to you.

Believe-it-or-not, you just re-enforced my statement.

You don't want to hear the word freedom and so you falsely accuse those who do use the word of watching too much Fox News.

Well said Bubba. It takes an intelligent person to figure that out. It is too bad that Trolldeg is not one of those intelligent people. Although I do enjoy it when he makes himself look like an idiot.

and the fact that N.K spends 25% of it's GNP on it's military

25%? I don't think so.

According to the CIA, North Korea spends about 33.9% of its GDP on military spending. This is a FY 2002 figure. Since then, there is speculation that it has risen by 10% to 12%.

My source for this information comes from the CIA World Factbook:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html#Military

What is going on with oil prices these days you might ask?

Here is a good article from TheStreet.com:

http://209.67.12.134/funds/jubak/10162123.html

This way, I don't have to do a lot of typing.

Well, look at this!

I leave for a rather long vacation and all hell breaks loose.

This war is not about oil.

This war is about one little word that those who are ruled by a Monarch and the socialists/communists in Europe don't want to hear: FREEDOM

Besides, to this very day there is absolutely NO HARD MATHMATICAL EVIDENCE to support the claim that this is a war for oil.

The war for oil claim is only made by those who are unmoral and weak minded.

My friend, you take things way too seriously. The following was meant to be a joke:

Now, lets talk about some US Geography, shall we?

Here is an easy question: In what state is the city of Houston located?

Note the smiley face at the end. That should have given you a hint.

I am well aware that Geography is the study of the earth's surface. This includes people's responses to the topography, climate, soil, and vegetation.

It does not have anything to do with the location of Houston.

Oh, you thought that I was serious............right, whatever.

And, the definition of US Geography can extend to it's tacit empire, why it's there and how long its going to last

When are you going to wake up out of your dream and smell the coffee?

Hey!

This is a nice topic about U.S. Geography!

You should start a new topic in the General Discussion Thread if you want to talk about how the USA is going to fall. I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to debate this issue there.

One more thing, if you are going to base the fall of the US on Fairy Tales (Kyoto, the UN, the Far East - garbage like that), I would not bother. You are going to save yourself from looking like a fool.

From reading his columns in the New York Times for years, I can only think of one word for Mr. THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN - Inconsistencies

Now, lets talk about some US Geography, shall we?

Here is an easy question: In what state is the city of Houston located?

That is nice but you still have not answered my question.

Also, you are still relying on an assumption. Go back and re-read what I wrote about making assumptions.

How would I interperet the comment?

Well, I would not try to do so. If I tried to interperet that comment I would be making a false assuption. I would look like a total idiot because I would be saying something that is not true at all.

I do not know what was going on in the mind of that reporter when we made those comments. More importantly, neither do you.

Also, one more time for clarification purposes:

...that reporter in the Fox segment was giving his opinion on the whole BBC/Hutton issue. It was his opinion only and it most certainly does not represent the mass view of America...

Oh, yes! I know all of this! Everything that I wrote above towards your comment was all bullshit. I only wrote that segment because I knew that it would "get under your skin". Can't a guy have some fun around here? Yes, of course! That reporter in the Fox segment was giving his opinion on the whole BBC/Hutton issue. It was his opinion only and it most certainly does not represent the mass view of America. All this talk about "reinforcing the views of large numbers of people who have difficulty in thinking for themselves" is just plain garbage. I agree, Fox news is 10th rate journalism however, so is the BBC, Daily Mail, etc.

The video clip was clearly presented in tabloid journalism style designed to reinforce the views of large numbers of people who have difficulty in thinking for themselves.

One could also use the same analogy to all those masses in the UK who called the Hutton Report "Whitewash and Scapegoat".

I am talking about the "reinforcing the views views of large numbers of people who have difficulty in thinking for themselves" segment.

stilettos:

Just to let you know - I am not trying to be mean to you.

I want an answer to the following question:

Where exactly in in that Fox News video did the reporter specifically tell the viewers that the BBC were blamed in the Hutton report for being anti-America etc?

Just to let you know, I do not care at all about how the video or the transcripts "seem" or "seem to suggest".

I want the facts - not a bunch of lame assumptions.

stilettos:

Well what can I say, you have done a lot of hard work for nothing

You also have a lot of spare time on your hands.

The problem with you is that you are basing your argument on a lot of assumptions. You use words like "seems" and "appears to suggest" which is just outright wrong!

One more time:

There used to be a saying:

When you assume something you make an "ass" out of both "u" and "me".

The argument was that the fox news video clip you posted seemed to suggest that the BBC were blamed in the Hutton report for being anti-America etc...

This is not true. The journalist did not do it in the video nor is it in the transcripts. In other words, he never once directly comes out and says that the that the BBC were blamed in the Hutton report for being anti-America etc...

You however want to believe this based on what the journalist "seems" to suggest.

You are doing something very wrong my friend - you are relying on assumptions instead of facts.

The fox news video clip I posted seemed to suggest that the BBC were blamed in the Hutton report for being anti-America etc... You appeared to side with the fox news report so I was just asking.

Well, my friend, I have watched that Fox News video clip again and the journalist (I don't know his name) makes no suggestion at all that the BBC was blamed in the Hutton report for being anti-American. I am not sure where you got this idea from.

However, I did agree with his (the journalist) opinion about the whole issue. The word "appeared" has no meaning here.

Well in that case maybe you can explain to me the link to America in the Hutton Inquiry because I can't find it, and where America was mentioned in the Hutton report because I can't find that either.

No offence here or anything but what the hell are you talking about?

Of course America is not mentioned in any Hutton anything.

Your argument is what exactly? What point are you trying to make here?

Is this really the american view?

http://blugg.com/stuff/foxs_view_of_the_bbc_player.htm

Well, I cannot answer for the rest of the America.

However, that is definitely "My Word".

Oh, BTW, thanks for posting that video. Guess that I will have to start watching more Fox News.

Re second paragraph, I struggle to understand your argument.

I am indeed sorry. I should have added a or perhaps a :drinking: at the end of that sentance.

That statement has nothing to do with my stance on these issues. Instead, I was being sarcastic by making a truly false generalization about certain people in this world.

Oh, BTW, that is £2.6 billion. Are you happy now?