genebujold

In times past, I've said good-bye, but returned. I'm now saying good-bye, but won't return. For years I've allowed other things, idols, to get between myself and my Lord, Jesus Christ. The cost has been great, and I no longer want to allow anything to become another idol, whether it's a career, a message board, a hobby, etc. I hope you understand. I bid you peace. Farewell. - Gene'

Thanks, Gene,

Inevitably privilege breeds excess; excess breeds revolution.

In the case of the French nobles, "Off with their heads; off with their heels!"

Rainbow

I can do without their heads, but I do wish they'd kept the heels!

Good point - where would all that money come from???

Way to go, kneehighs and the rest. Goes to show you that the main objection is simply lack of understanding and familiarity. I find this encourages me to be slightly more revealing in my wear of heels!

Does anyone have any ideas as to when and why wearing heels, as well as dressing colorfully, was assigned to women, but forbidden for "normal" men?

Rainbow

Glad you asked!

Although I've answered this in excruciating length elsewhere, here's the short of it:

The French Revolution.

Men were wearing progressively higher heels, to five inches and beyond, for about 200 years prior. Unfortunately, they were usually only worn by those who could afford it, the French nobility. During prior to and throughout the revolution, heels on men became a symbol of decadence, and fell out of vogue, another French word.

If the French Nobility had maintained some sort of control on their spending and cared more about those beneath them, high heels for men might very well be the fashion norm today.

When I first began wearing heels several years ago, I found a pair of slightly worn black leather pumps with 3-1/2 heels. They fit very well, but there was something about the look I didn't like, regardless of whether I wore them shorts or slacks. I guess it's just the appearance of bare skin on the instep. I don't mind that with sandals, but when I'm wearing a shoe, I'm more comfortable covering it up.

As much as I like simple interface of phpBB, I wonder if the uptime might be greater using something like EZBoard, which is managed by MSN? I also know there are web hosting companies out there that do full backups once every x days, and incremental backups on a monthly, weekly, and daily basis. As a result, if you get hacked, it's simple to log in, select the last full backup and the incremental backups up until that point and say "go." Of course you also have to worry about the hacker hitting you again... Then again, some of the best hosting companies have better firewalls to prevent that. That would make an interesting study, to determine the hacking success rate by web hosting company!

The headlines on Entare's website reads, "Easygoing shoes and sandals for ladies or men."

Source: http://store.yahoo.com/entare/shoessandals1.html

I wonder if the store really intends on marketing this to both women and men? I doubt it, given the fact that the sizes end at a women's 10...

http://store1.yimg.com/I/entare_1845_5329548

Again, society somehow links men in anything "feminine" to being gay. Nevermind 1) Alot of women's shoes are more masculine looking to begin with, 2) facts show more straight men like wearing heels than do gay men, and 3) a woman dressed completely in men's clothes is fine, a guy in 1 thing is all of a sudden gay.

Scotty

When men began wearing earrings in ernest in the late 1990s, it was initially perceived as somewhat feminine, until actors, football and basketball players, wrestlers, and other public figures began wearing them as well.

Then, it lost it's association with being feminine.

Have you noticed that the women's earring fashions have responded accordingly? Small hoops and studs have all but disappeared from the earlobes of women, and I've yet to see a woman wearing the 3/4 circle with two twist-on balls worn by many men, unless the balls are something feminine, like pink plastic or light green neon...

The bottom line is that women, in general, WANT to look different, and they want to look feminine. They will tend to avoid anything that looks decidedly masculine.

I'm currently in Germany on a long-term assignment, and while traveling here I wore the block-heeld leather wingtip oxfords I purchased on eBay. With long pants they look just like men's business shoes, even though they have a 3-1/4 inch heel.

Additionally, while travelling, I took note of feminine fashions throughout the airports, and it was extremely rare to find a woman dressed in anything I would consider masculine. Even the jeans were decidedly feminine, with some feminine flair like lace or side-ties at the bottom. All T-shirts were of a feminine flair, either by the logo or by the cut.

The closest thing I saw towards "masculine" was a gender-neutral outfit worn by a middle-aged woman. She had short hair and was wearing a polo shirt (with woman's left buttons, though), jeans, and walking shoes. But even she was wearing earrings that I've never seen on a guy, as well as a modest amount of makeup.

I believe it's this desire to be recognized as decidedly feminine (and to have their men appearing as decidedly masculine) which has resulted in many women decrying men wearing skirts and heels. Without it, I think most men would have fewer reservations about wearing higher heels and skirts.

Most men in the U.S. or even Europe have a difficult time getting in touch with, much less expressing, their feminine side. This is in sharp contrast to most men around the world, whom have little difficulty being themselves. I personally believe it's a combination of the world wars, conscripted troops, widespread wear of uniforms, and, of course, the media, which has portrayed men as HE-MEN for far too long, and as effeminate only as a joke. In reality, about a third of all men are "effeminate," the middle third are a mix, and the remaining third are knuckledraggers, while less than 5% are actually homosexual. Take me, for example - I'm not in the least bit effeminate in manner of speech, expression (verbal or physical), yet I'm a happily married man and enjoy heels and skirts. Go figure.

Take all of the comments members have posted concerning reactions they've gotten while wearing women's shoes in public (my comments included) and they all point to the fact that while we've made great "strides" in closing the gap, we've still a long way to go.

Comparing the response I witnessed decades ago and the more recent one, while a man wearing heels is still considered novel, it is by no means something to be derided, at least in public.

Genebujold:-)

What kinds of looks, inquiries, and comments did you receive?

Cheers---

Dawn HH

Couple of double-takes, a raised eyebrow or two, but certainly far, far less than if I'd done it a few decades ago, as did that man when I was a kid.

Since a few people have responded I'm just going to pick one and reply to everything.

It seems like the overriding reason for not wearing heels is that it takes too much energy/thought/whatever, or perhaps involves a change in appearance they're not willing to accept or make. That's interesting because it seems like the latter reason (change) is one that we (men) use to not wear heels in public. It's easier to fit in and not shake the boat.

It's amazing how clothes can make one comfortable or uncomfortable. It's also comforting to know that many women have the same level of discomfort as us guys when it comes to heels.

Thanks to all that have replied. It's been enlightening.

You make some excellent points!

You're right in saying that, in general, guys are more concerned with expediency than fashion. Just consider how much less time the average male takes to get ready for work, and it's not because they don't "have" to, but rather, because most women feel they do. Time and again, anthropology has revealed throughout the world and history that women are much more involved with adornment than men.

What I find surprising is how much more willing women are to put up with uncomfortable attire than are men! Everything from heels to itchy cloths, to drafts, to tight fits... It's enough to drive one insane!

I'm all about comfort. There's more than enough very fashionable, yet comfortable options for personal attire that I needed EVER put up with anything less.

Actually, I can feel a heelmeet coming on....

If so, I hope it'll be late summer / early fall with plenty of advance notice so that I can change my schedule and participate, as we're planning on visiting London around that time.

Technically speaking, we've had the capability to scan an individual's foot, measuring not only the shape, but also certain support parameters (average deflection of various parts of one's footbed under various loads, for example) and translate that into a computer-made shoe that would fit like a glove. This will happen, by the way, just as one company whose line of power accessories (available through Radio Shack) works with all lines of electronics (same power supply, different tips), there will arise a shoe intermediary (probably Zappos) who will develop an accurate way to measure one's feet and store those measurements for both searching and eventually, making shoes to order by means of some sort of "vari-last." Whoever does this will make a fortune!

I've been a Heinlein fan since high school, and it's no wonder, having read 100% of his published work (most of them many times over) that I have a very open mind when it comes to fashion. I recently purchased a previously unpublished Heinlein work, his first novel, in fact, that never made it to print in 1939. It's extremely good, and foreshadows many concepts found throughout his works, including his take on nudity and the wearing kilts or even skirts for men. No mention of heels, though I do recall him mentioning it in another of his novels...

It just kind of grew on me. Oh, like most boys I tried on a few pairs of mom's heels - even a couple pairs of a few of our neighbors, and once did the CD Halloween thing in college, and in heels (three inchers, belonging to my girlfriend's roomate). But I got into it when I had to, with a pair of clunky Payless shoe-boots with a 3" heel as an alternative to wearing several hundred dollar orthopedic elevator shoes when my progressively bad ankle got to the point where walking flat was the pits. At first, I was supremely embarrassed, but my wife understood. After a while, though, it grew on me and instead of relegating myself to cheap ugly house shoes, I began to be a little more bold and bought some heels that would pass on the outside. Then, I found this site, and a few others on fashion revolution, and the rest is history!

Depending on one's line of work and one's friends, going beyond mere housewear can certainly have disasterous results! Glad to see you taking things easy and keeping a level head. Good work and good friends are hard to find! This is the main reason I wish hh for men would come into the mainstream!

Question: What's everyone's take on price vs compatable? By "compatible" I'm referring to whatever it is that you're most concerned about, whether that be comfort, style, blending/discrete, etc. Case in point is the following shoe, by Pliner, that's over $200 US, but I tried it on in the store the other day and it was a wonderful, snug fit, unbelievable comfortable and stable, quiet on hard floors, and very nice looking. But is it worth the price? I know my answer, but I'd like to hear from you!

Thank you, Micha. As for what's considered "normal" these days, there's two more things I'd like to address. The first is the variation from the norm, which I believe has increased signficantly over the last 100 years, and as much over the last 20 as over the previous 80. The second is society's tolerance for variation, which I believe has significantly exceeded actual variation. Case in point: A quarter of a decade ago, I spotted a man wearing heels in New Orleans as he bravely walked down Chartres (just west of Jackson Square). He was derided, even to the point of one person spitting on him - and that was during the "Age of Aquarius," when most of the people frequenting New Orleans were lovers of art, music, and history, and generally more accepting of fashionable trends. Last week, however, I spent three days in New Orleans, wearing either my Franco Sartos (icon, left) or my Harley Davidson boots with a 3-1/2 heel. For pants I wore either black slacks, khaki slacks, or ordinary blue jeans. I received a number of looks, and a couple of comments and questions, but that was all. Times have indeed changed!

Although my feet are closer to being flat than high-arched like DawnHH's, they're unmistakably feminine, so much so, in fact, that in sandals they look more like the feet of a woman than most women's feet, a fact that some of my former girlfriends (and the swim teach) used to tease me about back in high school. Although I'm glad they fit into women's shoes like women's feet, I still detest pointy toe boxes, for while my feet are narrow (even in women's sizes), they're by no means pointy. Personally, I believe most women's pointy feet is more a product of their wearing pointy shoes too early and too often than anything genetic. Don't believe me? Just visit other countries where the women don't wear heels and examine their feet - not a pointy one in the bunch!

Hi, Scotty - sweet heels! Hi, DawnHH - me too!

Unfortunately, while the article is initially explorative, it degenerates into a decidedly negative commentary on the idea of men wearing heels. And the runway pics don't help us either, for as the article says, "Ick!" Unfortunately, if that's all the pictoral exposure we get, our cause is doomed before it gathers steam, and will forever be remembered in the public's mind as "ick." If you'd rather not be looked on as "ick," then do something about it - write the idiot who wrote the article, and send them a picture of your most fashionable, conservative pair of heels, and you in them, along with a respectful request that he/she revisit the subject outside the very limited (and fairly brain-dead) world of fashion. Despite what some columnists would like to believe, while designers do play a role, and their comments can relegate a fashion trend to the junkpile in a heartbeat, they only play a minor role, with the rest of society's mind being made up by... society.

I've seen more than 5 guys wearing heels here in Vegas. Then again, what people tend to do in private they tend to be more willing to do in public on vacation. Ciao!

I'm with you Bubba. Blackslide, your comment was very insightful, and mirrors much of what I've learned as a lay counselor over the last couple of years, namely, that there's often no substantially different upbringing that may be causing preferential departures from what's previously considered "normal," and I use that term very loosely, particular with respect to styles I've seen elsewhere in the world! I think there's always been those of us who identify in one way or another with characteristics of the opposite sex, but until recently, were fairly constrained by society against indulging in our choices of style. Most of those restrictions, stated in writing or merely implied, have been relaxed, if not actually removed, and most of us are far more free to indulge than we were even a decade ago. Some, however, like Heelfan, have been indulging for years, regardless of what society says!