AndyB

it's certainly a different twist to the story of how you got into heels

do you think it may have been a genetic trait?

I'd say that it's more likely to be a predisposition -- I'm an identical twin, and I'm pretty sure that my brother isnt into heels or x-dressing.

Somewhere back in the mists of childhood, somthing clicked and the interest developed. I went one way, and he the other.

Sorry, SH, but it's not quite like that, IMHO. People may well think it *is* a sexuality and lifestyle thing. And even if they don't, it's still a big thing to tell people, it's still 'coming out', it's still something that some people are quite messed up about. Yeah, it's easier for those of us who've managed to tell people, who are out there, but to say that this is a smaller issue than sexuality... I don't think so.

I can only speak for myself, but It is something you get really messed up about, and was from like 17 when the whole 'impact on life' dawned, until I started accepting it at 22. Telling people can help, but you have to have a certain level of security first. Your milage may vary.

Apart from anything else, I think that as long as there's a generally accepted label for something, it's easy.

That's the whole point -- it's what the general populace percieve, and what they'll label you with that counts. I could describe my preferred mode of dress as 'Goth', 'Androdgny' or 'freestyle', but anyone who sees me wearing a skirt [1] will simply think 'transvestite' (or crossdresser) and then think of all the (unjustified) sexual baggage that comes with the term. And the more I use another word, the more they'll think I have somthing to hide, so why bother fighting it?, simply re-define what they assoicate with the T-word by setting a good example [2]

[1] Skirt, blouse, whatever's comfortable.

[2] Pete Burns, Eddie Izzard, and to a lesser extent, David Becham.

At the risk of sounding like one of the four Yorkshiremen, I never had this site when I was trying to work out what the heck was going on inside me. I'd never call this easy. Explaining to loved ones that you're not quite like they thought can be hard.

I'd agree, although we (early-mid 20s and younger) have it easier because sites like this exist, the net wasnt ubiquitous back in '96, and there's an awful lot of psycobabble crap out there. (nod to the TS people tho, they've got it rougher than anyone else.) headfsck reigns supreme. All I'm trying to do is help people become comfortable with themselves, and in the process work myself out.

Gruß

AndyB.

Shyguy: Don't feel sorry for being there in your happy place. Be happy, that's what it's about.

I agree, and would like to add: take heart in the fact that it's possible to change the way you view yourself, even very slowly. But enjoy where you are at _NOW_ rather than where you want to be, then happiness comes all by itself, and progress is consequential.

micha, yamyam: I'm lucky enough to have a friend I've known for about 8 years that has absolutely no problem with me as a transvestite (didn't even blink when I told him recently), let alone guy in heels. And that's really cool, but a story for another thread.

AndyB.

I gave the wrong impression -- I meant that the number of people with an interest is probably quite high, but agree with Micha that the actual people on the street are very few and far between (OK. my numbers are way off ) Micha, Yamyam: The board does help, and I'm 'gas-axe'ing myself from the closet But even two of my closest friends who know me really well had to ask if I was gay when I said that I like to wear heels - It's sad that the attitude's that well entrenched. I hope I can eventually contribute to changing that view, because I don't want to be that sad older man. AndyB.

I've wondered that before... I'm sure there must be another heel wearer/TV/CD at college... there are 1100 students there. Statistically, how many TVs/CDs are there supposed to be? Does anyone know?

SH

IIRC FireFox mentioned that he belives it to be around 1 in 200? guys have an (at least latent) interest in heels.

http://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqtransgendered.html Estimates an incidence rate up to 50%! for males that have crossdressed.

A http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=406&aid=-1 Slashdot poll recons about 12% of the population are TG (but considering the site, I'd guess that mainly counts english-speaking geek males!)

But all that proves is that the numbers are inconclusive!

SH: your guess is as good as mine, but there has to be more than just you, and I do belive that it's around 10%. & I'll reply to your mail tonight -- I've been busy this week.

AndyB.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to do things, but daren't because of 'pressure from society'. I meet a lot of people in my work, and I'm sure that more than once I've been there in mundane shoes, and so are they, and we'd both rather be in our exotic heels. But how do you start it? I'm too dependent on my EPMs to go for it in a really big way, so I've no idea how to take it from here.

On the other hand, "They're not women's shoes, they're mine!"

I've thought about this a lot, that you could be standing talking with a like-minded person, and you don't say anything because you're both thinking that the other is a 'regular' person.

It's almost as if we should take a leaf out of the Mason's book and have a 'heely handshake' or something. -- I know I'd wear a small pinbadge or whatever on a jacket that identifies me as heel-friendly (any random small design would do, just as long as we all* know what it means)

[* But only 'us', though it would probably be unworkable, but nice in theory]

slightlyOT: I'm sure there's another TV at work -- I mean 20+ coders, even statistically there has to be more than just me; I'm just trying to work out who the other one is.

Not to be splitting hairs, but if they're called Spade heels, then surely they're different to blades? Or am I missing something?

These new styles with the semi kitten heel are not very nice for me. I think a 2" stiletto heel is not good because its height is so small in proportion to the width. Better to wear a block in 2" or even flat shoes.

yeah, what is with these new shoes?? I mean, the other day I saw a woman wearing a pair - I thought they were higher, untill she stepped off the kerb and I could see that they were only low.. yuch! I was most dissapointed

AndyB.

Plain Sight works for me!; I've got a blue holdall under the desk, but that's now full of shoes & clothes, so the box from some trainers has a nice pair of 3" heels in it! I'd agree with Dr S. tho, it's a hell of a lot easier when you move out. but be careful when you move back in again... the collection's a lot bigger AndyB (who probably got busted this morning when a pair of boots arrived in a (opaque, plain) plastic bag... mum answered the door, and in taking them off the postie, grabbed one by the heel. bugger. )

Not true, and true. You can get AOL broadband (or at least you will be able to soon) through NTL's cable technology, much like the way that ADSL operates.

I stand corrected! but wouldn't consider AOL an option (IIRC they proxy all thier IP traffic out of the states.)

That's true. I run my cable via ethernet into my Linux router/gateway/firewall, then to the rest of the network (all 9 other machines, including my machine).

SH

9! -- Don't post that on an NTL forum! Do you host your own mail? - you can have as many aliases as you like (great for paranoia!)

A Little OT -- Think I'd better get back to talking about shoes - can't be seen to be knowing too much about networks lest I be branded 'geek'

Indeed. We rent the modem. When we got it (last Feb), there wasn't the option to buy the modem. Even if there was, we wouldn't have. My dad doesn't like large initial outlay. We paid £25 installation fee, which is far better than ADSL installation (proper installation, that is, not self), which is around £150. Considering NTL have to dig up your drive, lay cables, drill holes, lay more cable, attach various boxes to internal and external walls, I think they offer much better value when all ADSL "engineers" do is stick a microfilter on the end and put their probe into it to check it works. BT are evil.

SH

I agree with the initial outlay, and we would've rented the modem, but at the time we were after getting a modem from a company that does RF gear rather than network kit (motorla). Besides break-even is about 2.5 years. after that, the modem's paid for itself & it makes any higher-bandwith connections cheaper as time goes on.

BT have been getting better tho, with thier no-frills self-install ADSL, you can buy a modem off Ebay, have your line enabled by BT and get service from Nildram at £20/month (50 or 80 quid 'setup' charge tho.)

Cheers.

A./

SH, you pre-empted my other post!

I would dispute that. NTL use the same cabling system as telewest who supply blueyonder broadband. So it isn't exactly proprietary...

True, but considering NTL swallowed up the local cable providers about 4 years ago, and they (each franchise) were pretty much free to use any cable tech they wanted Incompatibilites are possible.

With cable, you are locked into the local provider , Local Loop Unbundling means ADSL can come from anyone.

Totally untrue. NTL's standard broadband is their 600k service, which is what I have. It is cheaper than most ADSL options, at £25 per month, you don't have to have a phoneline to get it (or TV either), and it's faster than the 512k you get with all home ADSL packages. Their cheaper broadband is the 128k service, which is a mere £15 per month, which is cheaper than some "unlimited" dial up packages, and certainly

Also the latency (ping) is better on Cable (Ethernet, not USB), and at the time we had it, NTL was the only option for broadband here in the NW of Leics.

NTL "broadband" is only 128K as standard, when everyone else offers 576K as standard. Total bar stewards.

FYI: NTL's 600Kbit broadband service is 24.99/Month (if you rent the modem - we don't*), and the 128k entry-level broadband is aimed at pulling OpenWoe dial users away from BT (£14.99/Mo)

SH - It doesnt seem as bad as it looks at the first instance, it now appears that NTL are doing the averaging over the month; so you've effectively got a 30Gb/Month cap instead.

Linked in a roundabout manner from slashdot :http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7676

[*] Not sure if they do this deal anymore -- it'd mean the 1Mbit service'd be 30 Quid , but probably involve some barganing with Customer services.

Cheers.

Andy.

Andy,

I don't know if you realise but the picture you posted is of Brighton's Palace pier recent;y renamed Brighton Pier. The West Pier is much older and is approx 1100m west of Brighton pier. It's been closed since about 1974 due to a fire but was actually derelict before that. As Bob commented part of it has colapsed recently in the gales.

Ah! I didn't know -- I just 'wget'ed (wgot?!) the link that BobHH posted and mirrored it so people who don't want to have to work around the annoying webserver filters could see it!.

Thanks for the correction -- Mustv'e been asleep at the keyboard again

I'll edit the post.

Yes, yes, yes, a pattern forms, or else no one else is replying.

The really shy ones are lurkers, tho

I fall in that category (or at least when I'm sober, which is nearly all of the time)

Hi Bob, Seems as if ImageStation.com only allows downloads when the referring page is from thier domain (the new-window & paste trick won't work). Fortunately 'wget' allows us to manually set the referrer.

Mirrored on the hhplace image server at http://65.160.96.70/hhplace/images/1041556825.jpg

I'm taking this opportunity to try to put up a picture of the BW taken looking the other way, in July 2000. It's not real great, as her face is in shade, but I liked it. Please bear with me.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid44/p3bda269ee34cc962a0b0009cfbabdb54/fcdb800e.jpg.orig.jpg

HTH,

Andy

[Edit - BobHH Quote]

Anyway, my question is regarding shaving. What can be done to avoid the red bumps that appear here and there? I already use lotion & aftershave.

Aside from what you've already done, there's not much else I can suggest - I just put Nivea lotion on after shaving & it's pretty good the next day. I assume this is the first time you've shaved your legs? (it does feel bloody good, I have to admit)

The red bumps will go as you improve your technique & your skin gets 'used' to being shaved. (plus once you've got all the wolf hair off it's much easier to keep smooth )

Hope this Helps.

Andy.

Edit -- Typo.

Nice pictures.. Thanks for posting!

My friend is a Gemini and he thinks he has a split personality too LOL

Oops! My Bad! Was being ambiguous. I'm an identical twin; makes things interesting

He presented an award on the British Comedy Awards last night, I was very disappointed about how "normal" he looked.

Did anyone see Him on the Spike Milligan (IIRC) tribute thing on BBC2? -- He was in male mode; I was quite surprised!

Quite Apt really -- We're Gemini [but my brother isn't into heels, tho]

Intentionally blank.

Most everyone, sooner or later, reaches a certain age where they examine their life up to that point and realize that there are things that they haven't done that they wanted to do but were afraid to do it "because of what people might think". If you reach that point after being "humbled upon" by life's events, instead of on your deathbed, you realize that the only thing left that is still important is to be true to oneself; You ask yourself "do I want to go to my grave not having done (such and such) because I was afraid of what other people might think of me??" For me the answer was and is a resounding NO! After all, what more can "they" do to me that hasn't already been done? I hope YOU get to that point while you're still young enough to enjoy it.

Absolutely.

I'm the 'Andy' mentioned in the birmingham meet. That really did open my eyes to the fact that guys can wear heels in public without being hassled (Hats off to the guys I met that weekend -- you must've had it harder than me as you did it without this board & the internet as help/guidance)

I'm at a halfway stage -- Although I've been into heels for a few years, I've not taken it outside regularly yet. Two friends know, one is totally positive, and the other, I'd say that he's tolerant, but still a little freaked by the idea of a guy in heels, but not in drag. -- I'm using these reactions to judge the rest of the friendship groups to which we belong.

Although I don't yet have the strength of personality of someone like Francis to be able to just wear heels around my peers & family without telling them first. I will tell my folks before I move out permanently, for if I don't, then it will just be harder as I'll feel I can hide it easier & that'll just lead to paranoia whenever I see them.

I'm of the mindset that If I'm open and honest about it (when asked). But not push the issue when left alone, I should be ok.

I'm on the road to the outside... and it looks pretty nice out there

This is the general feeling I get from most places. It's something people are not used to, and as such, personally I fear an adverse reaction. Having been out in heels before I know this is generally not the case, and it's a case of learning to ignore this general feeling... something a lot of you have already done I guess. Realising that most people won't notice, and those that do probably won't have a mindset of heels + guy = bad is something I've yet to put into practice.

SH

This is my current situation, too -- After the liberating experience of Shopping in birmingham, & fetish fair meet (first time in heels outside, that weekend; ). I know that the general populace either don't care about what I'm wearing, or don't even notice.

However my mindset is still of apprehension when outside, I know that will go with practice & experience, It still doesnt make it any easier.

But well done with wearing heels out in your home town, and have fun shopping at the weekend. Don't let anyone stop you from doing what you feel is right for you.

If people want to be trapped by thier own narrow minds, then leave them to it, it's thier choice, like it's your choice to wear what you want.

Cheers.

Andy

Like Bob, I started late. It was when I went to university that I realised that I'd like to wear heels. Probably like most people here I paid more than the normal amount of attention to girls footwear from about 14 or so. It wasnt untill I was 20 that I actually bought a pair online from HowCool.