Just what IS your spiritual bent?

[Chris Grevstad]

I noticed several folks on the related Christian thread who stated they were not Christian. I'd be interested to know more about people's spiritual side here. I have lived a large portion of my life in some flavor of the Christian religion (Epsicopal, Church of Christ, LDS) but these days I am moving strongly in the direction of Zen Buddhism. There is lots there that I find attractive. I find I also am interested in learning more about Wicca, Paganism and earth-spirit related beliefs in general How about you? --chris

[Firefox]

I like to learn about all religions. They all have something to give and there's no positive incontrovertible evidence that any one is the true one. This is going to be a controversial opinion but I think that most people who espouse one particular religion as the only true way have had such ideas forced upon them when they were too young to decide for themselves. I'm not denying there are some converts later in life, and I did say "most".

I respect much more those people who are individual thinkers on this issue rather than those who have just followed what they were told when young.

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[Nikk]

I am a committed follower of Jesus Christ and have attended a number of different Christian denominations over the years. I feel most at home in one of the free churches esp. Baptist & Pentecostal. But I'm also interested to learn what people of other faiths believe. I'm convinced that many of the "religious" conflicts we see in the world have a lot more to do with fear borne of ignorance and also political issues than they do with the actual differences in beliefs.

[Firefox]

Agreed Nikk, religion is often misused by political activists as a vehicle of division or extremism. A good example would be Catholics and Protestants in N.Ireland, both nominally Christians whose religion has been part of some unjustified hatred over the years.

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[Scuffy]

I think that if you read many of my posts you can figure out what my views are.

[Jeff]

'Officialy' I'm Catholic (I was babtized). This is done when you're a baby, so you have nothing to say about it. My point of view about all religions is that they are all man-made. The bible, Koran or whatever, all once written by human beings. Religions cause the world nothing but trouble. As for what I believe.. I believe there is a 'here-after' and I believe we all live more than just the life we are living right now at this moment here on earth. I don't need some book or some higher official in the church to tell me what to believe and what not.

[terayon]

offially im christain, and i do believe in some grater power, but....until the time comes where i need religion (death, armageddon), im gunna keep my options open, and when i see whats at the end of the light, then ill hop on the religion bandwagon...wouldnt it suck to devote your life to god, just to die and find out there is no god, but theres a budha and for not believing in him you get sent to hell! i dont want that to happen to me

[Laurieheels]

I wish there was one base religion, I could subscribe to that. I have to believe in God, too many things have happened for reasons in my life. I am Christian in a way, but non denominational. Organized religion is difficult to tolerate for me. I understand the bible, having been taught it in various classes, and I just need to deal with my maker in my own way. No religion is perfect anyway. Each has something great about it. We shuld combine all of it into one simple religion. Something basic with universal appeal. Yes, and then we'll just turn lead into gold and make elephants fly.

[Francis]

with the way the world is going, we may just be able to do that for the topic; I am an aetheist by choice. I was baptized C of E (protestant to those who don't know what C of E is), but soon found that the bible, or any other religious book, doesn't have the answers you require. There are no answers to poverty, drought, starvation and all the other ills of this world, so how can a god, who everyone claims is all-seeing, all-knowing and all-powerful deity capable of creation, allow these things to happen. Answer? There is no answer! Since it cannot be proven that these deities exist or have ever existed, I will stick to me belief of the world is in trouble and only the people on it can help solve the problems. The answers are within you all, not in some book that has been translated,re-translated, passages lost due to the powers that be not liking a section and the meaning altered upon yet another translation. We all have the powers of good and evil, but it's up to each person to work out which is which and God isn't going to help.

[Yamyam]

I'm an agnostic, I suppose. The only time I've ever felt much sympathy for a religious point of view was when I was working with some Quakers, which is a fairly obscure Christian group. One core belief I remember from them is about 'living one's life as Jesus would', which, I guess, is what I try to do. It doesn't always work, but I'm working on it. I'm saddened by people who claim to be religious, while being spiteful, evil, and hateful. Especially when it's in the name of religion. I don't want to upset anyone, so I won't list all of the reasons why, but I really feel that while religion might be okay, some of its adherents give it a bad name.

[azraelle]

On 2002-06-08 23:59, Yamyam wrote:

...but I really feel that while religion might be okay, some of its adherents give it a bad name.

Which was the point of the Marty Feldman movie in the '80's called "In G.O.D. We Trust"!

[Firefox]

I like Francis's analysis. We are told that the God sent bad things to test us, or that we must have blind Faith in order to reach heaven. It sounds like the words of someone who is making it all up in order to perpetuate a religion or trying to find spiritual reasoning to justify humanity. And furthermore, the root of many of these religions was a code to subdue people to conformity in times very different to our own. Nevertheless I still think religious thinking has something to offer if one picks and chooses from the various ideas, especially from the more sensible religions such as forms of Buddhism.

[Laurieheels]

The book that we now call bible is just many little books written over a thousand or so years. Heck, what goes in the front was written after the middle! Why? To keep people in line, of course. I believe the basic message of being good, and it's a great idea, but it was communicated in a way designed for a society that is not ours, and so today, we cannot see the relevance because we are enlightened and advanced in our societies as far as technology and medicine. But to keep order and obedience three thousand years ago, creating a story about why God did things and the bad he could bring to those who were bad helped. Heck, some of the stories, like the Flood story, are two different versions written into one story. Like, take two of every animal, and then it says take seven of every clean animal, or something like that. It's not well organized, but it worked back then. Today, we just remember two of every animal. It's subjective. SO when we read it, we need to take out the basic belief and discard the trapings. They were not meant for us, they were written for another society in another time.

[Guest Allu]

I am cristian-lutherian. I visit my church very seldom. I don't care if anybody belive in some different God that mine. I am afraid of every kind of fundamentalism (cristian, islam, jewish).

[Firefox]

On 2002-06-11 07:34, Laurieheels wrote:

It's subjective. SO when we read it, we need to take out the basic belief and discard the trapings. They were not meant for us, they were written for another society in another time.

So true, but the number of people trying interpret the old texts word for word, or even more tenuous, trying to present the message so it refers to modern life, defies any logical approach.

An example from the Jewish Faith: It's forbidden to light fires on the sabbath. The modern equivelant of lighting a fire is "deemed" to be switching on a light. Thus it is forbidden to switch on a light. Enter the special "Sabbath switch" where the light is switched on by breaking a beam which trips a relay which turns on the current for the light. Because the current is not switched directly by breaking the beam, this switch is "deemed" acceptable for use on the Sabbath.

It seems to me the clerics of all religions should get together with the lawyers to decide which way they should twist and turn next. Surely the original message has been completely submerged by such niceties?

[Laurieheels]

Religion is already muddled enough, do not invite lawyers into it... we'll never be able to figure it out after that!

[Francis]

the lawyers may even find a way to sue God for something or other. I think getting God to the court room and enforcing the decision would be difficult

[Nikk]

What I should / should not do is for me to square with my conscience before God. Scripture is a good guide & so is the experience of other believers, and secular writing can also play a part here. But in my opinion, once you start down a legalistic route of breaking the spirit of the law but making sure that you remain just inside a specific interpretation of the letter, then you should ask why. God knows what is in our hearts; hiding behind ritual & semantics won't fool God. To put it another way, I'd rather devote my energies to doing "good stuff" than covering my backside.

[Dr. Shoe]

I am a Baptist (believer's baptism at the age of 23). However, to reassure Terayon, it doesn't matter which religion you follow as long as you stick to the principles of peace. There is no religion in the world that advocates murdering or persecuting people from other faiths. Interestingly, Christianity is the only faith that follows "the Son of God" all other religions follow a prophet such as Mohamed.

[Foon]

I'm a firm atheist, and I fundamentally diagree with any form of organised religion. Maybe not the beliefs and ideals that they stand for, but to me the concept of millions of people believing the same thing is just absurd. People are so different, how can any two peoples views on the subject be identical, unless there's some element of brainwashing involved? Besides, I'm a man of science. I have spent my entire life so far working with computers and learning about the laws that govern the way the universe works. In my humble opinion, religion was invented as a way for people to feel good about themselves, thinking there was someone watching over them, giving them someone to apologise to when they did wrong. If people want to believe in such an all-powerful supreme being, that's their choice; I'll just carry on believing that most religions are (in psychological terms) what's known as a "self-reinforcing delusion".

[Firefox]

^^^^ Logically that's a very difficult argument to counter, but spritually, religion can fill a void for many which nothing else can touch. I'm thinking of areas like death or the need to step back from everyday life.

[azraelle]

I'm LDS, and I'll leave it at that. About once every 10 yrs or so I come out of my shell and test the waters to see if arguing has begun to solve anything, and thanx to the (<font size=1>guns & hunting</font>) thread I once again have come to the conclusion that it doesn't. _________________ Hi-Heeled Boots, Bodysuits, and Back-Zipper Pants R wikkid-kool (on me, or U)! <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: azraelle on 2002-06-14 10:07 ]</font>

[DON K]

I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.JESUS CHRIST DID ARISE FROM THE DEAD AS HE SAID HE WOULD.ALSO YOU NON BELIEVERS SHOULD LOOK AT ISRAEL.WHY IS SUCH A SMALL COUNTRY AT THE CENTER OF HISTORY? BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE.ISRAEL IS MENTIONED AS GODS CHOSEN PAOPLE FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END.IN THE END YOU MUST TAKE A STEP OF FAITH TO ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOUR.THEY ARE FINDING THINGS IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAT SUB STANTIATE PERIODS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.NO BOOK WOULD HAVE SURVIVED THE CRITICISM OVER THE CENTURIES IF IT WASNT INSPIRED BY GOD.

[azraelle]

On 2002-06-23 00:58, DON K wrote:

...NO BOOK WOULD HAVE SURVIVED THE CRITICISM OVER THE CENTURIES IF IT WASNT INSPIRED BY GOD.

Can't quite swallow that last point. Many other books have survived quite nicely, thank you, and been proven dead wrong. Galen's medical anatomy of the human body comes immediately to mind. Others have survived, and are considered either non-Christian, or even anti-Christian, by most Christians, particularly of the Born-again ilk (the Koran, Popul Vuh, Kama Sutra, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc.).

I don't have a problem with the Bible (or the Book of Mormon, for that matter) being accepted as "inspired by God"; but it stands on its own merit--your argument in and of itself holds no water, and is worse than useless in attempting to convince a non-believer of the truthfulness of the Bible.

[Laurieheels]

I was so tempted to jump into this, but I think I won't. Wars are started over religion, and collections of books like the bible. Bible is derrived from Byblos, the place where the reeds grew to make the papyrus scrolls the first copies were written on. It was a means of education and control, which is why copies were made. Religion can be a great thing, but sometimes it goes too far. And that's all I will say, lest a war break out here.

[Firefox]

The bible says Jews are God's chosen people because it was written by Jews. Most people will blow their own trumpet if given half the chance. Israel is a centre of news like many places of conflict with internal problems where people are sadly getting killed. I can't see how that makes it any more important than other places of conflict where we must all try to do what we can to help the people make peace.

[IHeels]

Christian, but don't practise.

[Chris Grevstad]

On 2002-06-23 00:58, DON K wrote:

... a lot of preaching ...

Don, I asked this question to find out more about folks here, not for a sermon. I appreciate the depth and strength of your beliefs but I don't think your verbiage is quite appropriate to this thread.

--chris

[Renee]

Thanks Chris! Those are great pictures of you. Er uh Don with all due respect,... that is not why Jews "are God's chosen people". According to thw Bible in Genisis God chose Abraham to ultimately bear a "savior" son Jesus through. Once Jesud arose from death the Jews were no longer God's chosen people. God's chosen people were those who turned from "sin and accepted Jesus". Christians are God's chosen people. On a side note and I will not answer or get into a theological debate anymore... For what it is worth... I have studied the Bible enough to at one time recite about 700 Bible verses not including chapters or passages ie Psalm 23 or the "Beattitudes" or the "Sermon on the mount". I still can pretty much tell you anyone who was anyone in it and their story as well as hopw they died and their importance for being in it. Personally now I worship nature. Specifically Dianna the moon. She was the Italian name for the moon goddess so I am into goddess worship. Not so much say Aphrodite, but the moon. Everymonth on full moon week I do full moon rituals. They are very sweet and very pretty. It is at night and it is done in the dark at night lit by candles. More specifically I am a pagan. Think of me as "Glenda the Good Witch" of the north. I am not a new ager, but of the old religion. Y'all might understand me if I used the term Wiccan, but I am not a Wiccan I am a Strega. My patron goddeses are Dianna and Aradia who was the queen of Italian wtches. In fact Aradia is the most famous of all witches of all time. Aradia lived in tuscany, Italy and in about 1353 the Catholic church started an inquisition against the pagans (by the way pagan simply means country dweller) in that area. So she hid them in cave to protect them and taught them magic to protect themselves. She was ultimately raised to the goddess level. Did you know in Italy it is not Santa Clause who brings presents? It is a Christmas witch that does 12 days later. Anyway. that will give you an idea. I refuse to debate this versus Christianity. If anyone does have questions I will answer them. Besides having a black full moon outfit with a special pair of high heels is fun too. Renee

[texasbumpkin]

Renee....quick question......you are wiccan???? or another sect??? that is something that I would like to talk to you about....I have always been interested in it. ok....now for what I have to say on this topic.....what people believe is of their own view.....people are different. I am an episcopal, but I do not attend services.....why should I have to go to a church to commune with god, if he is all around us then I can chat with him at my house, or in my car or even in the bathroom if I need to. I believe there is something out there....wether it be allah, budda, mohammed, jesus, a purple people eater.....something. But we have to look at other people will believe other things.....this is a little off topic, but if there are other beings in the universe, where it is such a vast space and if can happen here, I mean life, then it can happen on another planet, and what do they believe.....if they also believe there is something out there could there really be a higher being, or are we just hoping that we are not alone in the universe and hoping that there is a higher being that can instill everlasting life in an after life???