Puffer Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 The vexed issue of shoe sizing and how to convert between the sexes and the various countries is a regular topic of debate here. I'm sure that we all appreciate that the reality is that variations between manufacturers, or even within a particular range, can upset our calculations, however carefully they are made according to the 'rules', whatever they may be. So, what are the rules? I'm far from sure whether the entry I chanced upon in Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_size) is helpful or not, despite its authoritative style and level of detail, giving the precise formulae that are said to apply. In respect of imperial length measurements, and taking a shoe made on a 10-inch last as the benchmark, the Wikipedia data tells us that this is equivalent to 30 barleycorns (of one-third of an inch each) and would be considered as a size 8.5 UK/Australian men’s, a size 8 US men’s, a size 10 UK women’s, a size 9.5 Australian/US women’s, or (under an alternative and less-used US system) a size 9 US women’s. The apparent difference between the size numbers in each system stays the same as the actual size increases or decreases (so a UK men’s shoe always has a size number 0.5 greater than a US men’s.) These comparisons are very puzzling. In the UK, surely we labour under the belief that men’s and women’s sizes are the same, so a size 8 unisex shoe is exactly that (ignoring the fact that a women’s style is generally made rather narrower than a man’s)? And do we not usually find that a US men’s shoe will be marked with a size about a half greater (not smaller) than its UK equivalent? Frankly, I think the Wikipedia entry is flawed and misleading, which is seemingly borne out by the two international size comparison tables to which a link is given (and which differ between themselves!). To be fair, Wikipedia does suggest that the entry is a ‘stub’ and may therefore be ‘… short or insufficient of information and require additions to further increase Wikipedia's usefulness.’ Quite so – and can someone out there provide an authoritative correction and share it with us here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 US ladies' 12= US men's 9.5= UK men's 9= UK ladies' 10= EUR43. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sscotty727 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I believe the US Women's to Men's is 2 sizes, not 1.5 sizes. I am a US Men's size 9 so take a Women's size 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskim61 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I have a collection of shoes and boots that totals over 200 pairs and don't have a lot of faith in the standard size conversions. The one constant that I have noticed is that shoes made in England, Spain and Italy run very narrow and one has to up their size. Even sizing within a particular manufacturer can be quite variable based on the style and factory. It's all quite frustrating, yet I keep going back for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I wear a men's 10.5 and have found that a size 11 pump fits me the best. Even there, size will vary by manufacturer. My size 11 5" Jante 8887s are a tad looser than my size 11 5" Pleaser 8220s. Pleasers seem to run more true-to-size, if not on the snug side. Black 5-inch stilettos - the only way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxxyheels Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Well, I'm a 13/13D in mens, and a 13w/14 in womens. So this theory doesn't really apply to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 yes, it just goes to show that theory doesn't always fit the facts. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielinheels Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I take a 12 or 13 in both mens and womens. Since women's med width shoes run narrower than men's med width shoes, I tend to take wides in women's and mediums in men's. Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. - Oscar Wilde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffer Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 You have all confirmed what most of us suspected, namely that there are many variations and inconsistencies in sizing and it is, quite literally, a matter of 'if the shoe fits ...' for most people. But my original question remains - is the Wikipedia data wrong? The specific last length/shoe size relationships quoted just don't make sense according to our collective knowledge, e.g. we know that a US men's shoe is a little smaller than a UK men's of the same numbered size - but W says the opposite. Does anyone know the correct formulae, theoretical though they may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-NL Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Puffer, Some theory I found in the past, on a website that no longer exists (called "The Desired Result"): "European Shoe Sizes Because the European system of shoe sizes has a French origin these sizes are sometimes called French sizes. The system is based on units of two-thirds of a centimeter (0.667 cm). A half size is one-third of a centimeter (0.334 cm). Ladies' and men's sizes are the same. British Shoe Sizes British shoe sizes (U.K. sizes) are based on units of one-third of an inch. The first twelve units are not used, the next 13 units are childrens sizes. A size 1 therefore equals 12+13+1=26 units of one-third of an inch. Ladies' and men's sizes are the same. To quickly calculate length from size, add 25 to the size, then divide by 3 to obtain length in inches. U.S. Ladies' Shoe Sizes American (U.S.) shoe sizes for ladies are derived from the British sizes: a U.S. ladies' size is 3/4 inch smaller than the same U.K. size. These sizes are sometimes referred to as USW (U.S. women's) or USF (U.S. female). U.S. men's sizes follow yet another system." But in practice one never knows how well a manufacturer adheres to theoretical standards (just like microsoft ) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 At least all the sizing systems do apparently derive from some standardization. That's a good place to start. But in practice it seems that each manufacturer has its own interpretation of whatever sizing systems they use so a 11 from one line may fit like a glove while a 11 from another line would be so tight as to be uncomfortable. Even different styles from the same manufacturer can fit very differently. The end result underscores the importance of the try-on and adds a whole new dimension of guesswork for those of us who order shoes online or from catalogs. Have a happy time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn HH Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 As you can see, no matter what country you live in---buying high heeled shoes and boots is still a "crap shoot". Cheers--- Dawn HH High Heeled Boots Forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sscotty727 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Was just noticing today that my Steve Madden shoes that are a US Size 11 have a 41 stamped on the bottom of the shoe. I am assuming that is European? So does a 41 = 11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a3 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Hallo, For my feed are about 25.8 cm long (male) and using between 40 and 41 male shoes in the Netherlands (Europa). But that is the differents in shoe making. Normale I can buy EUR 41 female high heels, but sometimes the 40 fits better for (cowgirl heeled) boots. For the UK a have size UK 8 female and fits nice and tight. For the US the size US 10 female get a good fit for my female heeled shoes. But can variate a little between productionmakers of shoes. But buying in Holland male shoes I fit them in the shop. When a want female shoes I hope I can find a quiet place in the shop the try are asked a sale person if there is no problem if I try them. With the excuse they are for my not existed girlfriend with the same shoe size. But ordering in the web is hoping for the best sometimes. Perhaps a questions about how the shape gets to the shoesize can help to affoid dissapiontments. US 11 female can between EU 41-42. good luck on you high heels A3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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