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At what cost the flights? They’ll need to figure out how to fill planes with reluctant fliers and still meet the fixed costs of operating and maintaining fleets of aircraft at a time when their finances have already taken massive hits.
 

How do you price the tickets? Where’s the premium flier market whose business underwrote much of the cost? 

Edited by Shyheels
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Airlines rely on premium fliers for their profits. Cheap seats to bucket list destinations for the tourist crowd will work for a few discount airlines, but won’t work for the vast majority nor will it work on many routes.

There is no simple business plan out of this.

Edited by Shyheels
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Mad  to go on a just a cruise ship? On any kind of ship where you have to go below decks or inside. Your safest ship bet would be the open upper deck of a Golden Gate Ferry or Washington State Ferry boat. 

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I am with Shyheels.  Since travel is so unpleasant I would rather stay home.  Airlines will have to lure us out again with amenities.  

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5 hours ago, Shyheels said:

You’d have to be mad to get on a cruise ship...

That's what hazmat suits, scuba diving suits, and space suits are for!  Just travel in a protective bubble to really enjoy yourself! 

Feminine Style .  Masculine Soul.  Skin In The Game.

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I agree with many of you, I don't know how the airline industry is going to survive.  I read several passenger lines started increasing their cargo service capabilities in a effort to bring in some revenue.  When your completing against FedEx, UPS and other courier services that have their own fleet of aircraft, one has to wonder how much probability is there in flying a passenger plane as a cargo carrier.   I'm sure there are many families like mine who elected to do a driving vacation this summer instead of getting on an airplane.   Regardless of your view point on what is happening, I think we can all agree 2020 is going to be one interesting chapter in the history books. 

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Over here on our side of the pond, those from the UK who were daring (or foolhardy) enough to risk flying holidays to sunny parts of Europe have been caught out by the British government's fickle way of imposing quarantines at extremely short notice on anyone returning from certain destinations - variable on a whim and subject to change with almost no notice. Just to add another layer of uncertainty to an extremely fraught industry.

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New this year, Ski Reservations, you need to reserve you ski trip, only so many on the mountain at one time.

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Around my neck of the besides having to deal with the corona virus, we are almost surrounded by the alphabet complex wild fires CZU, LNU- they don't give them proper names. We just wonder what the next disaster will be. 

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Had CZU refugees living on my street until Sunday, They all were lucky to still have homes. These CZU, LNU, .., aren't "normal" fires, CZU was something like 20 lighting strikes that started fires that kind of joined. the LNU was something 17 strikes/fires, same up north.  The Dolan fire (below Big Sur) was arson. We are lucky to have had relatively clean air for the last 4-5 days.

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  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, hh_pe said:

Don't forget the gender reveal stunt that started the fire in Southern California. 

Not on topic, but i hate gender reveal parties. A narcissistic concept, just below elementary school graduations. 

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14 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

Not on topic, but i hate gender reveal parties. A narcissistic concept, just below elementary school graduations. 

You can add that to my list of hates along with kindergarten graduation ceremonies and parties. 

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A comment on the airlines. We watched the changes after the events of 11th Sept 2001, some the fault of the airlines hiring the cheapest security services possible and mostly the fault of foreces beyond their control. They got financial bailouts from the federal government of the USA and there may have been others in other nations as well. This time is different. The airlines' wallets grew fat from shrinking legroom by cramming more seats on planes and maximizing revenue by charging people for everything. My criticism is levelled primarily at American carriers. I believe foreign carriers surpassed most American carriers a while ago in overall flight quality. The reason airline traffic is way down now is because, we the market place, has decided an airline flight has less value than before. Whether it's concern over cleanliness and sanitary procedures on the plane, overall comfort, too much emphasis on 4 ounces of shampoo instead of 3 ounces instead of weapons getting through or whether shorter-than-average men like me (5'8.5"/174cm) suddenly having their knees running into the seat ahead of me, we the travelling public have rendered a verdict: we would rather not fly at least right now. To hell with them and their wishes for a bailout. Quit screwing with people and their bags and their itineraries when they need to change their ticket for good reasons. Maybe quit paying your CEO a salary 2000 times the wage of the average worker and instead put that money into improving the overall flying experience. I'm aware many airlines' bread and butter are the business travellers but that is the status quo way of business. If it worked flawlessly then the airlines wouldn't now be asking for a bailout. There isn't enough money in the world to pay bailouts for every business that thinks they need it. My last plane ride was when I took a guy back to Romania when I was still working. Flew Lot Polish and Lufthansa both of which were great particularly Lufthansa. I know I'll fly again but it will not be an American carrier except maybe Southwest which is very consistent and can get me to a big airport to continue onto a foreign destination. My message to the public is simple: drive when you can or maybe take a train or bus and let these whining airlines sweat for their arrogance. A properly capitalised business with a moral compass does not need bailouts. That's my take. HappyinHeels

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Yes, I’ve no sympathy for the airlines either. I’ve only flown in an American carrier once in the past 20 years (at least) and that was Delta, flying to Alaska in an assignment. It was truly hideous, dirty planes, bad food, rude staff, long delays. But even on my usual carriers flying long since ceased to be a pleasant experience and now with the added unpleasantness of COVID restrictions, even more unpleasant. They all seem to operate with the idea that a reliance in soft bankruptcies and government bailouts is a legitimate business plan.

I am - or was - a platinum frequent flyer. I have absolutely no interest or desire to take to the skies and frankly wouldn’t care if I never flew again. 

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While I agree in very large part to your comments HinH, I do have to add that the public is somewhat responsible for the current situation.  Back in the 1980's, we were flying to Orlando from Chicago and the airfare, round-trip, was typically in the $300-$400 range.  Today, we get upset if the cost is more than $250 RT, and mostly pay less than $200.  The public demanded that air travel be "cheaper and available to the masses".  I'm hard pressed to think of much of anything that is cheaper now than it was in the 1980's.  In the never ending quest to keep fares down, something had to give.  Hence, those small seats with no leg room, minimal service on the flight, and less than stellar cleanliness.  I think many of us would prefer a bit higher fare and a return to comfort and service, but that then does not serve the greater masses.  I guess we could fly first or business class and receive the comforts we desire, and the cost of that might not be any higher than what a 1980's airfare would be in the typical rate of inflation were applied (online research says that $250 in 1985 is $604 today, so maybe not quite first class.  But the comfort and service were also not today's first class for $250 back in 1985.)

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Even in the 1980s though the airlines were adept at using soft bankruptcies to wriggle out of debts, and in terms of American carriers there was a noticeable difference in service, food and overall experience compared with the airlines of other nations.

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A business ticket on short flights absolutely doesn’t worth the price. We get nothing mote except I bigger but often crappy meal and a free seat in the middle. For 3 to 4 times the price of an economy one. 

I use to fly business on for longer flights and am also often disappointed. 

As a platinum frequent flier with Air France I get nothing! 

I am afraid we won’t ever find back the pleasure of traveling we had in the past 

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