A Parents Reflection.

[dww]

I was reading an article about american radio hams who keep radios in grounded metal boxes in case of a emp from a atom bomb, taking things a little far I think. One reason why I keep my car no electronics to fry not affected by any form of emp diesel with a injector pump thats it, no emission checks, no problems. Ilk says he has 50,000 galls of fuel I have just made my first batch of diesel a whole 12 gallons and yes it works got all the info from you tube. I am not going to take things any further than that, and the AWE ( atomic weapons est) and storage depot for atom bombs 8 miles away we would not last long anyway, at least I know the car will start.

[Shafted]

Many people believe that a nuclear weapon is the only way an EMP is generated. Back in 1859 our planet was hit by an EMP that fried the telegraph system. Called the Carrington Event it was a natural EMP caused by a coronal mass ejection from the sun.

http://en.wikipedia....r_storm_of_1859

[meganiwish]

What's an EMP?

[Tom-NL]

What's an EMP?

ElectroMagnetic Pulse (GIYF )

[meganiwish]

Thank you, Tom N-L. I don't know what GIYF means either.

[Aly]

Why are Americans obsessed with "prepping"?

Preparedness. For example: in 2005 Hurricane Katrina hits the southern US - the population is mostly urban, dependent on the government for pretty much everything. There are STILL areas that have not been rebuilt - they're waiting for the government to do something. During the time immediately after the storm hit the state government thought it was a good idea to confiscate the firearms from all the law-abiding folk, even though the police forces could not, and in many cases WOULD not, provide protection.

In 2007 a similar storm hit our mid-west region, although it was mostly tornadoes and not hurricane winds. The Mid-west is much more rural - the people are more self-reliant, and tend to be prepared to live without the incursion of government. Immediately after the storms subsided they picked themselves up, bebuilt, and got on with their lives - not waiting around for government handouts. Today you can't tell there was ever a devastating storm there.

The difference: a mindset of preparedness - America was built by people who were trying to get away from an oppressive government - one who felt they "owned" their subjects from cradle to grave. We are not subjects here; we are citizens and many of us still have that self-reliance built in to our DNA. We can survive because WE want to - not because our government wants us to...

[at9]

Thank you, Tom N-L. I don't know what GIYF means either.

GIYF is the polite version. GIYF = Google Is Your Friend

JFGI is the crude alternative.

[hoverfly]

It seems to me that the Scouts have failed to adapt to a modern society where modern survival skills could be taught. They have even failed to adapt to modern beliefs and values. Worse from what I've read on this thread, your children have been enslaved to modern business practices that has questionable ethics with their fundraising. Heck I don't even buy Girl Scout cookies anymore! The contents yell out you get little for what you pay for! These organizations and businesses involved in these cookies make a big profit! My two cent on a basic need for prepping Modern society is very frail, food supplies in city stores including modern suburbia have a three day supply. We can lose power and clean water to earthquakes, tidal waves, and even an extremely rare EMP burst from whatever source. The best recent example of all, an asteroid that exploded over a Russian town. That explosion was equivalent of a typical modern nuclear warhead. If that asteroid exploded closer to the ground the whole city could have been wiped out. The question is, after you survived a disaster what do you do next? Prepping for a disruption, not an end of world scenario, a disruption is not a bad idea. Disruptions like the hurricanes in New York City and New Orleans, or fast-moving fires out West, even a devastating earthquake. It's part of an answer to what do you do next. Because in a modern society it's going to be a devastating shock to your system. You should ask those who have survived such an incident. Asked them if they were prepared and if they were not ask them if they wished they were. The scenarios above is something that a Government can handle. Even at multiple areas at once. However when the government takes control of a devastated area it's not Candy land. If you watched on TV the encampments is not a place to be happy and to live. It's a place to survive and unless you have a way to get out of the area, you're to be stuck there for quite some time. If you had some kind of prepping you would be able to stay at your home, that's if it is livable or move out to some where safe. Tell me, which of the two sounds better?

[Tom-NL]

GIYF is the polite version. GIYF = Google Is Your Friend

JFGI is the crude alternative.

Surely you cannot mean the Jewish Federation of Greater Indianapolis ? (www.jfgi.org)

[meganiwish]

Why would I choose Google while I have friends here?. I think I can work out JFGI. That's not very friendly.

[ilikekicks]

Why are Americans obsessed with "prepping"?

I think if society broke down to the extent that they'd need to barricade themselves in the house with 20 years stock of food and about a million rounds of ammo, I'd think the lucky ones would be the people that don't survive the initial holocaust.

As remarkable as this might sound, That is the EXACT mindset I had a while back.

Sometimes, when I was a teenager, I used to worry about Nuclear war. It was the 80's the whole cold war and doomsday clock was going on.. 2 minutes to midnight was more then a song by Iron Maiden to me.

I was sitting on my roof, getting stoned, and looking out over Lake Erie up towards Niagara Falls. From my roof, I could see all the neon lights and such on the horizon. It was then I realized I had nothing to worry about.

Being within 12 miles of the Power Facilities at the Falls, I knew there were a bunch of ICBM's pointed there as its a major target being one that provides a great deal of electrical power to the Eastern Seaboard of the U.S. . If the buttons were pushed, I would have a whole Half hour to just sit back, get stoned, drunk, laid.. it would all end suddenly in a brilliant millisecond of light and I wouldnt feel a thing. I would be instantly vaporized and nobody would ever remember I existed.

My way to "prep" would be to buy a huge bottle of shisky to go with the jar of sleeping pills.

Prepping isnt just waiting for that final situation to come. Its a lifestyle of being self made ' independent '. Its the only real way to find or actually be ' free '.

Many people buy Gasoline ( petrol ) right now for 4$ a gallon. Those whom I work with make Ethanol from Corn crops with sugar additives. Ive spent a grand total of 30$ on Gasoline in the last 14 months. I bet many people here wouldnt believe me. Ive put well over 3500 miles on both vehicles I drive for that same 30$.

I have no need for any handouts of government-anything. People say Im weird because of it. It doesnt bother me at all.

BTW. You get Foxes right in the centre of London. Anywhere where there are parks and gardens and loads of discarded food.

Those are some sly foxes

I was reading an article about american radio hams who keep radios in grounded metal boxes in case of a emp from a atom bomb, taking things a little far I think.

Faraday cage. It also protects from lightning and other electrical discharges.

One reason why I keep my car no electronics to fry not affected by any form of emp diesel with a injector pump thats it, no emission checks, no problems. Ilk says he has 50,000 galls of fuel I have just made my first batch of diesel a whole 12 gallons and yes it works got all the info from you tube. I am not going to take things any further than that, and the AWE ( atomic weapons est) and storage depot for atom bombs 8 miles away we would not last long anyway, at least I know the car will start.

Making ones own fuel is a great thing! Good feeling of achievement. Whilst others pay 4$ a gallon, with the supplements I have to buy ( Sugar ) and for what I purchase in corn and stalks from local farms, it runs me about 45cents a gallon. Even *if* Ethanol was less efficient as they say, and only had half the energy or mileage as gasoline, I can buy 8 gallons for the price of 1.. I would still be LONG ahead.

It seems to me that the Scouts have failed to adapt to a modern society where modern survival skills could be taught. They have even failed to adapt to modern beliefs and values. Worse from what I've read on this thread, your children have been enslaved to modern business practices that has questionable ethics with their fundraising. Heck I don't even buy Girl Scout cookies anymore! The contents yell out you get little for what you pay for! These organizations and businesses involved in these cookies make a big profit!

Yep!

My two cent on a basic need for prepping

Modern society is very frail, food supplies in city stores including modern suburbia have a three day supply. We can lose power and clean water to earthquakes, tidal waves, and even an extremely rare EMP burst from whatever source. The best recent example of all, an asteroid that exploded over a Russian town. That explosion was equivalent of a typical modern nuclear warhead. If that asteroid exploded closer to the ground the whole city could have been wiped out.

In my area, a Blizzard or SnowStorm can close things down for a whole week. FEMA says to have a 3 day supply.. So.. we should all starve for 4 days?

The question is, after you survived a disaster what do you do next? Prepping for a disruption, not an end of world scenario, a disruption is not a bad idea. Disruptions like the hurricanes in New York City and New Orleans, or fast-moving fires out West, even a devastating earthquake. It's part of an answer to what do you do next. Because in a modern society it's going to be a devastating shock to your system. You should ask those who have survived such an incident. Asked them if they were prepared and if they were not ask them if they wished they were.

Blizzard of 1977 in Buffalo! I was a young kid but remember climbing out a second story window on the house to go outside. The snow was some 13 foot high! It took the city over a month to dig out!

The scenarios above is something that a Government can handle. Even at multiple areas at once. However when the government takes control of a devastated area it's not Candy land. If you watched on TV the encampments is not a place to be happy and to live. It's a place to survive and unless you have a way to get out of the area, you're to be stuck there for quite some time. If you had some kind of prepping you would be able to stay at your home, that's if it is livable or move out to some where safe. Tell me, which of the two sounds better?

In my case, the Farms are 25.1 miles away. If I have fair warning, I take one of my cars/trucks and drive out. If its something sporadic and conditions are permitting, I have a pair of ATV's and know all the train tracks, highways and backroads to get out there.

What happens in many scenarios and was seen during Katrina hitting NewOrleans is civil unrest. Looting, raping, pillaging, lawlessness.. This is a ' modern ' society.. and it looks like the middle ages overnight. The Human Psyche is geared to ' me first ' and is a default brain setting when it comes down to survival.

[at9]

This is the sarcastic version of GIYF: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=giyf

The idea of encouraging people to do their own basic research first goes back to well before google existed. The comment "RTM" (with optional F before the M) may go back to the 1950s. Judging by a wikipedia article there's quite a bit of sociological and educational background to this sort of comment. I even discovered some related acronyms that I would have had to google in order to decode.

@Tom-NL, I like your JFGI reference. In the UK we have a dangerous organisation called Ben's Bargain Centre

[dww]

I thought it was the Broken Biscuit Corporation.

[meganiwish]

This is the sarcastic version of GIYF: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=giyf

The idea of encouraging people to do their own basic research first goes back to well before google existed. The comment "RTM" (with optional F before the M) may go back to the 1950s. Judging by a wikipedia article there's quite a bit of sociological and educational background to this sort of comment. I even discovered some related acronyms that I would have had to google in order to decode.

@Tom-NL, I like your JFGI reference. In the UK we have a dangerous organisation called Ben's Bargain Centre

Yes, assuming you can trust what you can find on the net. If one chooses to use a word, one should be prepared to explain it. I saw an interview once, where children were asked how adults could best help them learn to read. 'Well, if you don't know a word they could tell you, then you would know it.' Hm, out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.

In my area, a Blizzard or SnowStorm can close things down for a whole week. FEMA says to have a 3 day supply.. So.. we should all starve for 4 days?

We had what we call a blizzard yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-21746407 Ridiculous chaos. All one needs to do is put on the right clothes and walk.

[Shafted]

A blizzard by noaa definition is snowfall at 1 inch per hour or greater with a sustained wind of 35 miles per hour or greater. The photo hardly looks like like a blizzard. Trying to take a photo in a blizzard, all you are likely to get is white.

[meganiwish]

We do things in a more understated way over here. Smaller cars and gentler blizzards. It's what makes us British.

[dww]

You cannot beat the throb and noise of a V8. A merlin is the very best.

[Tom-NL]

This is the sarcastic version of GIYF: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=giyf

The idea of encouraging people to do their own basic research first goes back to well before google existed. The comment "RTM" (with optional F before the M) may go back to the 1950s. Judging by a wikipedia article there's quite a bit of sociological and educational background to this sort of comment. I even discovered some related acronyms that I would have had to google in order to decode.

@Tom-NL, I like your JFGI reference. In the UK we have a dangerous organisation called Ben's Bargain Centre

RTFM as in Read The Fine Manual ?

(of course there are also those with a more filthy mind, who think that acronym stands for Read The (synonym for copulating) Manual ...

With apologies to ILK, for having contributed to hijacking his thread

[Rockpup]

The "prepper" thing is due to leaches feeding and then praying on peoples paranoia to fleece them of money. It is sickening.

[Shafted]

The "prepper" thing is due to leaches feeding and then praying on peoples paranoia to fleece them of money. It is sickening.

While it's absolutely true that this does go on. You are painting with a very broad brush. Knowledgeable preppers don't get fleeced for their money. One thing that people somehow fail to realize is that many preppers actually prepare for any emergency where a temporary or permanent loss of infrastructure can and probably will happen at some point.

The latest polls on the subject of prepping is actually showing that prepared Americans are becoming the majority. Think about it. If anything does happen, those who are unprepared will be forced to live a living hell. They are not likely to get a lot of sympathy from those that have prepared.

I don't know what the next big emergency will be. While the likelihood of any one event is very low, when you take into account all the possible scenarios, i becomes likely.

[yozz]

Getting prepared, or even the possibility of getting prepared, depends very much on where you live. If you live in a rural environment and own quite some terrain, your possibilities of making your own fuel are infinitely bigger than when you live in Tokyo and would hardly be capable of owning a single square meter of real estate. If you live in a country like the Netherlands, owning a decent size garden is not for everybody. Apart from that, the vegetables may not be very edible when you are in an area with lots of air pollution. Of course you can have some canned goods and some packs of water and some batteries etc. But there is a limit to that when you live in a big city. What I am trying to say is that we cannot measure everybody by the same method. Living in the countryside has one set of advantages, living in a big city another (like having my job there which I enjoy immensely). Maybe we need a new type of scouts for city life........ Y.

[Shafted]

Getting prepared, or even the possibility of getting prepared, depends very much on where you live.

If you live in a rural environment and own quite some terrain, your possibilities of making your own fuel

are infinitely bigger than when you live in Tokyo and would hardly be capable of owning a single square

meter of real estate. If you live in a country like the Netherlands, owning a decent size garden is not for

everybody. Apart from that, the vegetables may not be very edible when you are in an area with lots of

air pollution. Of course you can have some canned goods and some packs of water and some batteries

etc. But there is a limit to that when you live in a big city.

What I am trying to say is that we cannot measure everybody by the same method. Living in the countryside

has one set of advantages, living in a big city another (like having my job there which I enjoy immensely).

Maybe we need a new type of scouts for city life........

Y.

And there are ways for those that live in close quarters. It's called "urban prepping".

New Yorkers are growing produce on the balconies and windows of their apartments.

http://www.windowfarms.org/

[heels59]

many preppers actually prepare for any emergency where a temporary or permanent loss of infrastructure can and probably will happen at some point.

A few decades back a survivalist group did a little intellectual exercise to determine the safest place on earth to live. They looked at everything they could think of, from geo/political stability, to weather patterns to airline flight paths. Anything that might cause harm was examined, weighed, assigned a probability, etc. They eventually settled on a "perfect" location, though no one actually moved there. Good thing, too, since a short time later that nirvana was buried under hundreds of feet of volcanic ash at the base of Mt. St. Helens.

[ilikekicks]

Heels59 ( and others ). I will find it hard to move from the North Eastern Part of the U.S. I know hoe to deal with the snow and cold. I know that winter will come. I know what the growing seasons are and how to navigate without any road signs or even a compass/map to get to where I might need to. The West Coast of the U.S. is on a major fault line. It could go into the ocean at anytime. Its also presently receiving fallout from the Nuke plants that collapsed in Japan. The same rads are effecting the Northern West Coast though not as dramatically. The South East of the U.S. is a ' Hurricane Alley '. Every 3-5 years they are pelted with massive storm that destroy whole communities. Not something I would wish to deal with. The Plains area or ' Central U.S. ' has tornadoes. Im good at working on houses, proof is in the work and displayed on pictures, but a house isnt a 747 and wasnt designed for flight. Theres no real repairing a structure put through a situation like that. The Only real problem I have with where I live is the ' people ' and how they decide for others how to live. If it wasnt for the infringement they put on many, I would gladly consider staying in this area. But their impact on my liberty is too great for me to ' tolerate ' anymore and being honest, they are incapable of making it through a ' natural selection ' process. A neighbor asked me once while I was unloading some food stores ' Why all that food? ' and seemed like he wanted to laugh. We had an ice storm 3 weeks later and he was knocking on my door ' Do you have any spare cereal? My kids need it.. '. The same guy heard my generator going when the power lines dropped the next day from the ice buildups weight. He came to my house with an extension cord asking if he could run a line. He doesnt have a generator but has a pair of vintage Corvettes in his garage. Didnt buy cereal for his kids but has the biggest flat screen TV I have ever seen. Items like those mentioned are brought up at the Local Troops meetings. ' Be prepared ' is a reality for those young guys. Some say its ' extreeme ' ( modern day word meaning ' bad ' ) but they can make a fire and for the most part stand against adverse effects ( or have a clue how to do such ). Its bad when my neighbor is 45ish, has 3 kids, a GREAT paying job ( Public Union Guy ), has 3 kids.. and doesnt prepare for them.. and yet a 14-15yr old kid ( whom could be that guys son ) knows what to do to get ready for a winters coming.

[Shafted]

All he needed was an inexpensive inverter to turn his corvette into a generator. What an idiot! Kids are hungry? I'll trade you some cereal for that corvette. That's what this guys future is.

[Bubba136]

Here in the lowlands we take hurricane preparedness very seriously. That's why my motor home is prepared 100% for immediate departure and provisioned to sustain us for a minimum of two weeks.

[Rockpup]

Here in the lowlands we take hurricane preparedness very seriously. That's why my motor home is prepared 100% for immediate departure and provisioned to sustain us for a minimum of two weeks.

About the same here. Every hurricane season is taken seriously, and I've already learned that when the shit hits the fan the quality of food you demand goes way down. Dry goods and canned soup is good enough since bigger issues prevent you from caring about little details.

I could take the prepper talk in a direction that will close this thread, since the ATF has a bit of my money, and a friend had to stand guard on his mom's property after a tornado wiped out most of the area.

[Shafted]

I could take the prepper talk in a direction that will close this thread, since the ATF has a bit of my money, and a friend had to stand guard on his mom's property after a tornado wiped out most of the area.

And it would be appreciated if it didn't go down that path.

[ilikekicks]

And it would be appreciated if it didn't go down that path.

Thats the problem with ' Scouts ' and even other organizations these days. Its a HUGE problem with Society in General.

The answers to many problems we all have need a discussion. The ' Discussion ' can only be had in ONE WAY or the conversation is over ( or moderated ) or shunned or stated to be some despicable thing, talked down about and generally causes a bad-feeling for one group or another.

I believe such is by design as is the ' problem ' they call scouting.

I was informed earlier this week that the Troop wont be visiting the farm this year. Not for camping or anything. Heres why :

One of the parents read a ' consent form ' and saw the photocopy of the insurance voucher for the up coming ' range day '. ' Range Day ' isnt a REQUIRED day, its voluntary. Its not just limited to the Scout himself, but their family members can attend as well! Its open to all family members.

Said parent inquired if this is the same place they have had their ' Summer week ' where they camp out ( has been happening there for the same troop for the last 10-15 years! ), have their bon-fires, do nature trail hikes, work on their outdoors merit badges..

This parent was told ' yes, same place, has been for years.. '. Its not the same exact location, its about a mile away but its still on the same legal ' property '.

This parent then stated its ' Illegal ' to do such ( have their ' summer week ' there) because theres a shooting range on the same property and they will refuse to give consent for *their* child to be in the presence of such.

They were then told " The range is CLOSED all summer long because its right next to the gravel pits that are being mined. They cant have guns going off while loaders, dump trucks, conveyors and people are working in the vicinity. ". It didnt matter to this parent. Their child is to be included and not discriminated against in regards to what they believe is an ' unsafe ' area to be camping.

During ' Summer week ', they have ( now ' had ' ) Archery where they learn to make arrows and use a bow, get a merit badge for it. That was a ' no-no ' to this parent as well.

The problem the troop now faces is they need to find a new place to use. The Troop CANNOT ' exclude ' a Scout from an outing/camping event. If they ' knowingly ' select a place where a parent wont give consent to, they could face legal repercussions.

The only good news is the gentleman whom owns the properties next door ( 2 miles down the road ) was a scout in his days and owns quite a HUGE chunk of land. We ( 2 Adult Troop leaders and I ) are going to speak with him this weekend and see if he wouldnt mind hosting the Troop ( its all of 17 boys, quite small ) for the week. Hes mentioned in the past that he was in scouting and so were his sons and that it was a ' great experience ' for his family in the past.

Its really irritating how ONE parent can more or less dictate to all the others and theres absolutely NOTHING the other parents can do to allow their children to participate in something they approve of!

The sad thing is, during that week, so much is accomplished that cannot be done outside of ' Summer Camp '. The Troop is based in the City Area.

The Troop has to find another place or go to one of the bigger Scouting Camps in the area and that costs each Scout ( or their family ) about 600-1000$ for the week ( without the fees for some of the events. ).

So now all the kids/parents are put in a dilemma because of one person and it really cant be ' Discussed '.

[meganiwish]

The problem the troop now faces is they need to find a new place to use. The Troop CANNOT ' exclude ' a Scout from an outing/camping event. If they ' knowingly ' select a place where a parent wont give consent to, they could face legal repercussions.

That's ridiculous. It's the parents who are excluding